Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • TSR Support Team
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosie786)
    Now I feel sad.


    Thanks



    Haha I like that
    Gotta move on to something more happy.

    Low? Well I've Gotze plenty more where that came from.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Financier)
    :cry2:



    PRSOM.




    This match's going to be messi for you. Germany FTW!
    Ahahaha.

    man I hate german pedo smiles.
    scares me!

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Financier)
    Israel's launching airstrikes against a terrorist group called Hamas, but are killing far more civilians in the process than they are terrorists. I can understand why they're doing it (there's been over 500 rockets into Israel this year) but can't they do so in a way that doesn't catch a lot of innocent people in the crossfire?
    In simple terms, no
    • TSR Support Team
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by missfats)
    Ahahaha.

    man I hate german pedo smiles.
    scares me!

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    German pedo smiles won't be the only thing that scares you after the Germans are done with the Argentineans...

    (Original post by samba)
    In simple terms, no
    Special forces or something? I half believe the IDF when they say Hamas are using human shields, but that doesn't mean methods which minimise collateral damage should be avoided. It's heartbreaking to see innocent children dying. :cry2:
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by missfats)
    NEYMAR SUPPORTING ARGENTINA!

    what is life


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    What a bae ❤️
    • TSR Support Team
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sophsha)
    What a bae ❤️
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    In simple terms, no
    But you can't deny the fact that the death toll is much higher in Palestine than in Israel.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Financier)
    Gotta move on to something more happy.

    Low? Well I've Gotze plenty more where that came from.
    Yh I know

    Ahhh
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Financier)
    Special forces or something?
    The problem is kinda complex, so this will basically be brief and not 100000% accurate. After the 3 Israeli boys were kidnapped and murdered, some ******** [assumedly Israeli] kidnapped and murdered a Palestinian boy. Hamas are losing support on the ground, and are completely out of allies internationally; even Iran has turned their back on them. And you have Salafi (ISIS type, real bad eggs) forces/influences/support starting to rise in Gaza. So Hamas need to gain some sort of support, or risk losing control. Meanwhile you have these Salafi types [who are not openly affiliated with Hamas and outwardly hate them/could very well hate them privately] gaining support, firing rockets at Israel, and basically showing that 'extreme radicalism and terror' can get results. So Hamas can't afford to be seen as weak basically, internally. They need to find some external and internal support. So they are forced to escalate.

    Meanwhile in Israel, the political system is basically kinda transient - if you're not seen as good enough at defending, you're kicked out. So they have very little political capital to not respond, and importantly too, not to get soldiers kills. Meanwhile, they have to be seen as tough on Hamas, whilst obviously they don't want to defeat them and cause a power vacuum. Meanwhile they have very little current human intelligence in Gaza [the bedouin, druze, and israelis make up the majority of humint and that doesnt work for obvious reasons in gaza]

    -----

    So you're left with Hamas escalating with these rockets, or letting these rockets be fired and attributed to them.
    Hamas living in a very urban environment, whereby the only way other than airstrikes would be ground forces.
    Israel are forced to respond with airstrikes
    Hamas respond further, when they feel they haven't gained enough public opinion
    Israel sends in ground troops, more people, and troops die.
    Ceasefire announced whilst both sides hate each other that little bit more.
    • TSR Support Team
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosie786)
    Yh I know

    Ahhh
    Schurrle, it'll be difficult to use all of them but I'll find a way.

    (Original post by samba)
    ...
    I'm well aware of what is going on. What I'm querying is why can't the IDF use Special Forces to eliminate their targets in place of levelling the homes of several Palestinians in airstrikes.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosie786)
    But you can't deny the fact that the death toll is much higher in Palestine than in Israel.
    Nope, but that's merely because Israel have far better defense and weapon systems, and because the targets are in urban areas, hidden in hospitals etc etc, not because they are 'trying' to kill people. (they are clearly trying to prevent it. If you've ever seen what a hellfire is capable of doing to a building that's easy to realise)

    What do you think the death toll in Israel would be if the Palestinians had the Israeli weapons? A million maybe?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Financier)
    I'm well aware of what is going on. What I'm querying is why can't the IDF use Special Forces to eliminate their targets in place of levelling the homes of several Palestinians in airstrikes.
    And I answered you. Humint is far from good enough, and the effect of mass special forces casualties would escalate it to whole new levels. This is the only play, from the point of view of both sides.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    Nope, but that's merely because Israel have far better defense and weapon systems, and because the targets are in urban areas, hidden in hospitals etc etc, not because they are 'trying' to kill people. (they are clearly trying to prevent it. If you've ever seen what a hellfire is capable of doing to a building that's easy to realise)

    What do you think the death toll in Israel would be if the Palestinians had the Israeli weapons? A million maybe?
    Well you can't start killing people based mainly on assumptions that if they had Israeli weapons then the death toll in Israel will be more. That's like taking the utilitarian approach which I don't agree with at all. Unless in special circumstances.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Financier)
    Schurrle, it'll be difficult to use all of them but I'll find a way.
    .
    Ok my fellow germany suporter :dancing:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosie786)
    Well you can't start killing people based mainly on assumptions that if they had Israeli weapons then the death toll in Israel will be more. That's like taking the utilitarian approach which I don't agree with at all. Unless in special circumstances.
    How is that 'killing people based on assumptions?' They are eliminating targets as a response for rocket strikes on their civilians.

    It's not an assumption anyway. If every rocket fired was a Jericho3, or even Jericho2, Israel and Jordan would no longer exist. Hell, even if they were firing Popeyes, Israel and Jordan wouldn't exist.
    • TSR Support Team
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    And I answered you. Humint is far from good enough, and the effect of mass special forces casualties would escalate it to whole new levels. This is the only play, from the point of view of both sides.
    How is that any better? Airstrikes are based on the same intelligence as that for use by Special Forces, but the difference is that the latter are much more capable of reducing collateral damage than the former. Yes, IDF forces are more at risk than a simple bombing approach, but at this rate you won't even be able to fight back against Hamas with growing international concern from the sheer proportion of civilian casualties.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    Nope, but that's merely because Israel have far better defense and weapon systems, and because the targets are in urban areas, hidden in hospitals etc etc, not because they are 'trying' to kill people. (they are clearly trying to prevent it. If you've ever seen what a hellfire is capable of doing to a building that's easy to realise)

    What do you think the death toll in Israel would be if the Palestinians had the Israeli weapons? A million maybe?
    I've said this before and will say it again, I believe that the international community should class hamas as an illegitimate president on the grounds of dictatorship and terrorist activity. The UN are capable of doing this as previous encounters with people like him i.e gaddafi.

    Majority of Palestinians (or isrealis) do not want more civilians hurt just because of hamas and his joke frenzy of followers. Thus it is inconvenient of isreal to instead of taking international efforts to eradicate hamas and his followers, but rather kill innocent children ALL because of hamas.

    It's apparent what the problem is. If we replace "Hamas" with a president who is willing on behalf of Palestinians to negotiate a peace treaty. This is properly the only way, we should be seeing the lives of Palestinians aswell as isrealis.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    How is that 'killing people based on assumptions?' They are eliminating targets as a response for rocket strikes on their civilians.

    It's not an assumption anyway. If every rocket fired was a Jericho3, or even Jericho2, Israel and Jordan would no longer exist. Hell, even if they were firing Popeyes, Israel and Jordan wouldn't exist.
    You have the same type of thinking like when the USA bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were 'eliminating targets'

    I say that was bull to the sheeeez. But everyone has their own opinions.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Wooo, things are serious in here and out of my scope of knowledge too :lol:

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Financier)
    How is that any better? Airstrikes are based on the same intelligence as that for use by Special Forces, but the difference is that the latter are much more capable of reducing collateral damage than the former. Yes, IDF forces are more at risk than a simple bombing approach, but at this rate you won't even be able to fight back against Hamas with growing international concern from the sheer proportion of civilian casualties.
    How fast does an aircraft move? How fast does an operative in hostile territory move? How flexible is the guidance on a missile? How flexible is the guidance from an operative?

    And if they could get operatives in to at least sight the missiles, they would anyway. It's a non starter as it's not possible.


    (Original post by missfats)
    I've said this before and will say it again, I believe that the international community should class hamas as an illegitimate president on the grounds of dictatorship and terrorist activity. The UN are capable of doing this as previous encounters with people like him i.e gaddafi.

    Majority of Palestinians (or isrealis) do not want more civilians hurt just because of hamas and his joke frenzy of followers. Thus it is inconvenient of isreal to instead of taking international efforts to eradicate hamas and his followers, but rather kill innocent children ALL because of hamas.

    It's apparent what the problem is. If we replace "Hamas" with a president who is willing on behalf of Palestinians to negotiate a peace treaty. This is properly the only way, we should be seeing the lives of Palestinians aswell as isrealis.
    The problem is neither Israel or the Palestinians can afford for Hamas to be destroyed or eliminated at the moment. The groundswell is for Salafi (ISIS) forces, and if they came to power the problems for the people would be FAR worse. Other nations [jordan/egypt] would get involved and civilian casualties would rocket up

    Basically it's a lose lose on all sides. If Hamas got crushed, it would be worse though I think. Can you imagine Sisi showing the same restraint as Israel does?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
    Useful resources
    AtCTs

    Ask the Community Team

    Got a question about the site content or our moderation? Ask here.

    Welcome Lounge

    Welcome Lounge

    We're a friendly bunch. Post here if you're new to TSR.

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.