Private Schools Ought to be Abolished Watch

angelmxxx
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#261
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(Original post by Dnator)
I went to a comprehensive in year 7 and 8, took a test and went to a grammar school that has results better than any public schools in the area, don't understand why people go to public schools, such a waste of money
Lots of areas don't have grammar schools in them or nearby. And again, people pay for facilities/sport/boarding etc too.
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perfectseven
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(Original post by angelmxxx)
See what pisses me off is the fact that you think that I was "handed my results on a plate." I did 5 a-levels, which meant teaching myself one of them and going to a couple of school revision sessions. I did all my work myself. I had some brilliantly passionate and engaging teachers, but I also had some truly awful teachers, who could and would probably have been fired had they worked in a school with borderline C/D students as these students wouldn't have been able to teach themselves to get the good grades. A lot of private schools don't offer triple science either, and people wanting to do extra exams have to teach themselves and then ask the school to enter them for these extra exams.

I KNOW that I fully deserve my grades because I put work in throughout the two years of sixth form, both in the classroom and for homework, and I revised and I was rewarded with top grades. Ok, so my teachers were willing to see me in lunch breaks/after school if I needed to ask them a question, but teachers at state schools will do this too if you ask them. I didn't pay for the teaching, I paid for the environment and the extra-curriculars and the pastoral care. (And boarding, but that's another thing). I don't see anything wrong with paying for a boarding house, or paying to go to a school which offers an hour of sport every day - it's the same as paying to go to a sports club, but it offers everyone the chance to do different activites.

So please, please do not insult the thousands of privately educated students who have worked just as hard - if not been pushed to work harder - than their state school counterparts by saying that they "have been handed their grades on a plate," because frankly it's just ignorant, arrogant and downright rude.
You see this is the paradox of private schools. You either have to admit that it IS easier or that you are wasting your money. If they don't even offer triple science why PAY??

Every school offers sports activities. The whole point of extra-curriculars is new things so why would you want to do them at school anyway? If you board and do all extra-curriculars within your school environment you don't spend much time in any other culture than your schools, which surely could only be damaging, no matter how caring that environment is.

Anyway it has to be easier to get average grades for your school (pupil at good private school getting straight As) than it is to get the best results anyone from your school has every got. (intelligent pupils at *********)
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CERECEREREVOLUTION
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(Original post by perfectseven)
I think you're totally right. I went to one of the worst schools in hampshire and got 11A*s and 3As. I had to force the school to even enter me for triple science exams, which I never had a lesson for and was self-taught for all the extra modules. Thats why it really pisses me off when people get handed to them on a plate what I had to work so hard for.
So basically you're saying because you had a bad education you want everyone to have the same? Nice one.

Last time I checked we were living in the free world. People can choose to build whatever establishment they like and people can choose to spend their money on whatever they like. The system proposed will result in massive amounts of spending because the government is ridiculously inefficient and largely incompetent and is basically authoritarian. Everything has an unintended effect and if you think social engineering will work you're a nutcase. Leave things the way they are and increase support for grammar schools and things are sorted. OH WAIT. It's not fair on children who don't have pushy parents to get them into grammar schools! We should ban parents from encouraging their children to learn when they're younger so only innate intelligence is taken into account when choosing which children are going to good schools.
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angelmxxx
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(Original post by perfectseven)
You see this is the paradox of private schools. You either have to admit that it IS easier or that you are wasting your money. If they don't even offer triple science why PAY??

Every school offers sports activities. The whole point of extra-curriculars is new things so why would you want to do them at school anyway? If you board and do all extra-curriculars within your school environment you don't spend much time in any other culture than your schools, which surely could only be damaging, no matter how caring that environment is.

Anyway it has to be easier to get average grades for your school (pupil at good private school getting straight As) than it is to get the best results anyone from your school has every got. (intelligent pupils at *********)
Well, my school offered triple science. But some people don't want triple science! So they would be happy to pay for a school which didn't offer it. I think private schools are likely to be more flexible in trying to accommodate students' requests, but that is probably also a side effect of having (in general) smaller year groups.

I don't quite understand the bit in bold - maybe I'm being stupid late at night, sorry. By extra-curriculars I meant being in sports teams, choir, etc which I really wanted to do at school. That's why I chose to move schools. And I only boarded a couple of nights a week, so obviously I left the school a lot, I didn't mean schools where you stay in the school for a whole term, I couldn't deal with that at all!

Even if it is easier to get average grades - which it probably is in many cases - that doesn't mean that the people getting top grades are any worse than people getting top grades at any other schools. I find it astonishing how anyone can assume that someone getting top grades at a private school hasn't worked for them at all, and has just had them "handed to them on a plate," as if you just turn up to the exams and find all the answers filled in or something! I know people at private schools who have worked far harder than any people at state schools I know who achieved good grades, and it's not just due to better teaching or whatever, it's down to the whole 'positive atmosphere' and a desire not to waste their parents' money I think.
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perfectseven
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(Original post by CERECEREREVOLUTION)
So basically you're saying because you had a bad education you want everyone to have the same? Nice one.

Last time I checked we were living in the free world. People can choose to build whatever establishment they like and people can choose to spend their money on whatever they like. The system proposed will result in massive amounts of spending because the government is ridiculously inefficient and largely incompetent and is basically authoritarian. Everything has an unintended effect and if you think social engineering will work you're a nutcase. Leave things the way they are and increase support for grammar schools and things are sorted. OH WAIT. It's not fair on children who don't have pushy parents to get them into grammar schools! We should ban parents from encouraging their children to learn when they're younger so only innate intelligence is taken into account when choosing which children are going to good schools.
No no no... I agree with the OPs system about grammar schools, I was just expressing how irritating it is knowing you have the worst deal for no reason, and when you care sooooo much about something its hard when you know some people (not everyone) who don't care as much are beng given it.
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angelmxxx
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Thanks for the rep someone
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CERECEREREVOLUTION
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(Original post by perfectseven)
No no no... I agree with the OPs system about grammar schools, I was just expressing how irritating it is knowing you have the worst deal for no reason, and when you care sooooo much about something its hard when you know some people (not everyone) who don't care as much are beng given it.
Having seen the comprehensive side of things too, I can see where you're frustrated. Think about it though, what do you have to gain from taking away things from other people? There's no point in holding grudges and complaining about the past. The world isn't going to be fair and never will be in the next few thousand years. When it comes down to it, freedom is one of the most important things we have and should be treated as such.

PS: Universities adjust GCSE scores according to the quality of your school. Rest assured if your school was as bad as you claimed it was they're going to recognize how well you did and most likely treat you favourably compared to a grammar or public school student with similar grades. Employers aren't stupid either, and assuming you're not just an exam machine will see talent regardless of your grades (well, in the private sector at least).

(Original post by angelmxxx)
Thanks for the rep someone
No problem~. Thought you looked like you could do with something to brighten things up a bit :P
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DougieG
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And thanks for all the negative rep, you poncy losers who never had to do a jot of work in your lives
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perfectseven
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(Original post by angelmxxx)
Well, my school offered triple science. But some people don't want triple science! So they would be happy to pay for a school which didn't offer it. I think private schools are likely to be more flexible in trying to accommodate students' requests, but that is probably also a side effect of having (in general) smaller year groups.

I don't quite understand the bit in bold - maybe I'm being stupid late at night, sorry. By extra-curriculars I meant being in sports teams, choir, etc which I really wanted to do at school. That's why I chose to move schools. And I only boarded a couple of nights a week, so obviously I left the school a lot, I didn't mean schools where you stay in the school for a whole term, I couldn't deal with that at all!

Even if it is easier to get average grades - which it probably is in many cases - that doesn't mean that the people getting top grades are any worse than people getting top grades at any other schools. I find it astonishing how anyone can assume that someone getting top grades at a private school hasn't worked for them at all, and has just had them "handed to them on a plate," as if you just turn up to the exams and find all the answers filled in or something! I know people at private schools who have worked far harder than any people at state schools I know who achieved good grades, and it's not just due to better teaching or whatever, it's down to the whole 'positive atmosphere' and a desire not to waste their parents' money I think.
Okay, that phrase is a little over the top, (probably just a bit of bitterness) but the positive atmosphere must make it so much easier to work for these things. You don't have to deal with people trying to stop you all the time, you don't have to motivate yourself as much, you just have to do what everyone is telling you to do.

I think it is good for people not to have teaching actually! Sometimes I think the best teacher is the one who refuses to teach the exam syllabus, but simply tries to inspire with interesting experiments ect. with the pupils doing all the "learning the exam book" bit outside of lessons. It would certainly separate out students for effectively than everyone just getting As all the time, as you would have to have a genuine enthusiasm for your subject to do well.
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DougieG
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(Original post by CERECEREREVOLUTION)
Having seen the comprehensive side of things too, I can see where you're frustrated. Think about it though, what do you have to gain from taking away things from other people? There's no point in holding grudges and complaining about the past. The world isn't going to be fair and never will be in the next few thousand years. When it comes down to it, freedom is one of the most important things we have and should be treated as such.

PS: Universities adjust GCSE scores according to the quality of your school. Rest assured if your school was as bad as you claimed it was they're going to recognize how well you did and most likely treat you favourably compared to a grammar or public school student with similar grades. Employers aren't stupid either, and assuming you're not just an exam machine will see talent regardless of your grades (well, in the private sector at least).



No problem~. Thought you looked like you could do with something to brighten things up a bit :P
Again, just rubbish. Noones going to take the quality schools away. Their admissions will just be fair, rather than based on parental income. I'm bringing the cleverest people up to the highest level. That's all there is to it. What you are advocating is a system where many people who are clearly not the best are getting given the best education, which is the very opposite of capitalism and meritocracy.
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perfectseven
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(Original post by DougieG)
And thanks for all the negative rep, you poncy losers who never had to do a jot of work in your lives
Haha yes indeed
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CERECEREREVOLUTION
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(Original post by DougieG)
Again, just rubbish. Noones going to take the quality schools away. Their admissions will just be fair, rather than based on parental income. I'm bringing the cleverest people up to the highest level. That's all there is to it. What you are advocating is a system where many people who are clearly not the best are getting given the best education, which is the very opposite of capitalism and meritocracy.
So basically you're saying parents aren't allowed to spend their money on what they want, and people aren't allowed to set up their own schools.

Grammar schools are often better than public schools and accept the cleverest students. Grammar schools are what need to be built and funded, public schools can be left well alone.

EDIT: And having seen what you responded to, you're taking away a good education from who you generalise into not the cleverest but with rich parents group. That's taking something away from them. Well done you.
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TheGimpMan
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yeh man their all such snobs i would never speak to any of them
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angelmxxx
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(Original post by DougieG)
And thanks for all the negative rep, you poncy losers who never had to do a jot of work in your lives
Well I haven't repped anyone (pos or neg), but do you really expect to be taken seriously making statements like that?

If you went to a really really bad school where nobody else ever worked, you may feel like you did an incredible amount of work to get your grades, but everyone else probably did a similar amount but just thought it was normal (or is so incredibly clever that they don't need to do much).
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angelmxxx
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(Original post by TheGimpMan)
yeh man their all such snobs i would never speak to any of them
So ... nobody looks down on you for going to a state school, but you judge people for going to private schools. Wow. Nice.
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Roberto_Ferrari
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(Original post by CERECEREREVOLUTION)
If you want to make the country more meritocratic then the way to go about it is to improve the alternatives, rather than to take away private schools.
This guy has hit the nail on the head. End of debate.
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angelmxxx
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(Original post by perfectseven)
Okay, that phrase is a little over the top, (probably just a bit of bitterness) but the positive atmosphere must make it so much easier to work for these things. You don't have to deal with people trying to stop you all the time, you don't have to motivate yourself as much, you just have to do what everyone is telling you to do.

I think it is good for people not to have teaching actually! Sometimes I think the best teacher is the one who refuses to teach the exam syllabus, but simply tries to inspire with interesting experiments ect. with the pupils doing all the "learning the exam book" bit outside of lessons. It would certainly separate out students for effectively than everyone just getting As all the time, as you would have to have a genuine enthusiasm for your subject to do well.
See I agree with a lot about what you said about the teachers, but that's a different debate altogether I guess!

I agree, the positive atmosphere probably means privately-educated people didn't "work as hard" as in they didn't have to force themselves to block out interuptions in lessons - but let's face it, in the average school there just aren't people throwing chairs across classrooms every day. However, in terms of pure academic studying of textbooks and doing past papers and revising the material - I know my privately-educated friends did definitely not put any less effort or work in than any of my state-school educated friends.
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angelmxxx
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(Original post by Roberto_Ferrari)
This guy has hit the nail on the head. End of debate.
Seconded
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perfectseven
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(Original post by angelmxxx)
Well I haven't repped anyone (pos or neg), but do you really expect to be taken seriously making statements like that?

If you went to a really really bad school where nobody else ever worked, you may feel like you did an incredible amount of work to get your grades, but everyone else probably did a similar amount but just thought it was normal (or is so incredibly clever that they don't need to do much).
Oh dear I think he was joking. And compared to how much work all my friends from a wide range of private/top ranked state schools did at G.C.S.E I know I personally worked a lot than those people, and they are of similar opinion, having seen how much I worked.
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Entangled
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I'm comprehensive through and through, and my prospects are looking pretty good at the moment through a combination of hard graft and 'street knowledge' - that is to say, an ethic of working bottom upwards. I would not, however, agree with the original post on the whole - I don't believe it's beneficial to drag the lofty downwards, instead trying to improve the lesser (working bottom upwards, I suppose) is preferable.

I'd vote in favour of keeping the class system, purely because that's where my politics lies - I'd have to warn, in opposite fashion from the original post, that I'm not from an excessively wealthy background - just one where we like to make the most of what we earn for ourselves (and everything stems from that). We, as people, can boo-hoo all we like about the class system based private schooling, however not much is going to be put in motion against it. Put quite simply, most politicians would be betraying their own backgrounds by trying to dismantle the cogs of that particular mechanism.

At this point, I'd like to bring up the two grade head start that Mandelson (of all people) has been prattling on about (I think I bring this up quite a bit actually - must sound a bit stroppy about it). It's the reversed situation of the bigger picture - if we can assume that by-and-large private schooling is better streamlined than comprehensive. Automatically tacking on a couple of extra marks due to family background (as opposed to the extra marks, perhaps, coming from the private technique).

Quite frankly, I don't think it's good for anybody to make everything fully comprehensive. A lack of streamlining would make everything terribly clunky and divisive, ironically, in my opinion - the classroom would just be too erratic and eccentric.
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