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    (Original post by py0alb)
    The idea expressed by simplicity that treating women with respect and dignity will inevitably lead to being "friendzoned" just shows how much pua has ****ed with some people's heads.

    No wonder young guys can't get laid, they've convinced themselves that the only way to "build attraction" is to act like a total prick and treat women like objects for their gratification.
    You should treat them with a basic respect, but most women don't sexually respond to be treated really respectfully, like buying them drinks, constantly complimenting them, etc. I know it's nice to think that being really nice to women all the time is the best tactic, but that isn't reality, otherwise these tactics would never had been formulated in the first place. I think most guys start off being really nice to women, find that fails, and then turn to things like PUA.

    You don't act like a "total prick", you're creating a false dichotomy, you don't have to either treat them like a queen or treat them like ****. You treat the well, but make them a little bit insecure as well, make sure you look desirable and confident.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    "knowing what to do to build attraction" is inherently manipulative.

    If you have to plan an encounter or use strategies or techniques to "build attraction"- which is the entire essence of PUA - then you're putting on an act, intending to manipulate your intended victim into believing you're something you're not.

    Attraction is not something that should need to be built. Either they find you attractive, or they do not.
    knowing what to do to build attraction" is inherently manipulative.
    So knowing what to do to become attractive is manipulative?

    :confused:

    If so, I'm pretty damn happy being "manipulative", along with the other 98% of the worlds population who are attractive enough to find a partner at one time of their lives or another

    If you have to plan an encounter or use strategies or techniques to "build attraction"- which is the entire essence of PUA - then you're putting on an act
    No it is called "learning" One isn't born confident, or intelligent (two important ways to become attractive) but one can learn these traits or knowledge to become attractive.

    Attraction isn't about "fooling" anyone, it's about building the skills and knowledge necessary to be able to convey/carry out certain social behaviour (confidence, being an interesting person etc) which will make you more attractive.

    Attraction is not something that should need to be built
    Yes it is. Attraction comes from a set of characteristics that can easily be gained or lost, both intentionally and unintentionally
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    ...Or you guys can just be yourself and wait for the person that likes you for who you are?

    Worked for me.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Treating a girl as a social equal does not mean you treat her like she's better than you. So much should be obvious.
    I know, if you quoted the whole sentence instead of taking a small part of it out of context you'd get that impression too... seriously, why do people do that? It makes no sense to me. It isn't like people can't just read what I actually wrote anyway.

    What I was saying is, you're right in that treating them as equals, rather than superiors is a good tactic (though being slightly condescending in the right way can be even better), and one that a lot of guys miss, BUT a lot of people do this, but still have problems, because they aren't flirting. They also might not be coming across as confident or interesting, because their body language is poor, they are being too self deprecating, or they are asking bad, closed questions. Basically, my point is you're on the right lines but you're oversimplifying it, and saying that things that work don't, because you find them unsavoury. It's fair enough to not like them, but it's lying to say they don't work.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    You should treat them with a basic respect, but most women don't sexually respond to be treated really respectfully, like buying them drinks, constantly complimenting them, etc. I know it's nice to think that being really nice to women all the time is the best tactic, but that isn't reality, otherwise these tactics would never had been formulated in the first place. I think most guys start off being really nice to women, find that fails, and then turn to things like PUA.
    How have you got it into your head that treating someone respectfully means " buying them drinks, constantly complimenting them, etc" :confused:
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    (Original post by SuperSaiyan)
    ...Or you guys can just be yourself and wait for the person that likes you for who you are?

    Worked for me.
    Well maybe you naturally talk to women in the right way (though it sounds like you're more talking about finding a long term girlfriend, rather than more casually meeting girls).

    Still, I met my girlfriend in a club, and if I hadn't worked on how I talk to girls, I probably wouldn't be with her. I am myself with her, in fact I was after the first ten minutes, just to make the initial attraction, it is helpful.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    How have you got it into your head that treating someone respectfully means " buying them drinks, constantly complimenting them, etc" :confused:
    It's how a lot of guys, especially inexperienced ones, approach getting laid. Basically, the logic is "the nicer I am to her, the more she'll like me". Girls like respect and dignity, so I'll be the most respectful and treat them with the most dignity! It's not a terrible line of thought, but it just doesn't work. A little bit of cockiness can go a long way... When you are chatting with or pulling a fit girl, it can feel like you're really lucky, but you have to act more like she's the lucky one, that you expect to get with girls like her.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    But its cool if he orders your food for you, right?

    I'll have the steak, rare, and.. I think... perhaps the salmon for the lady.
    Unless we're regulars and you know what I always have/you know me incredibly well, I'd hate it if someone ordered for me. I want to choose what I eat, it would just be annoying since I'd have to stop the waiter and tell them I don't want the salmon with sauce since I'm allergic.

    (Original post by Millie228)
    Oh God. You won't have much fun with women looking like a dork. If you need your t-shirts to be humorous FOR you, you have a problem.
    I love geeky/funny shirts! I think it's a great conversation starter.

    (Original post by Simplicity)
    I personally think that is better, than social equals you speak off. Most girls would just friendzoned guys who do that. In the past it might have worked, but today it doesn't as you just get friendzoned.

    PUA approach at least has you being forward with girls and chatting them up. Treating girls like friends is the worst thing you can do.

    Although, I think the biggest problem is just looks. Improving your looks is best way to get girls. But, that means 1 hour of exercise a day and perfect nutrition.
    I'd much rather date a friend than a PUA


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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    It's how a lot of guys, especially inexperienced ones, approach getting laid. Basically, the logic is "the nicer I am to her, the more she'll like me". Girls like respect and dignity, so I'll be the most respectful and treat them with the most dignity! It's not a terrible line of thought, but it just doesn't work. A little bit of cockiness can go a long way... When you are chatting with or pulling a fit girl, it can feel like you're really lucky, but you have to act more like she's the lucky one, that you expect to get with girls like her.
    So the issue isn't treating girls respectfully, the issue is a complete misconception of what treating someone respectfully and with dignity actually means...
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    So the issue isn't treating girls respectfully, the issue is a complete misconception of what treating someone respectfully and with dignity actually means...
    Unfortunately, yes
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    So the issue isn't treating girls respectfully, the issue is a complete misconception of what treating someone respectfully and with dignity actually means...
    Well I'd say it's quite difficult to define exactly what treating someone in those ways entails. Is negging disrespectful? Some would say it is, some would say it isn't.
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    Insult her to lower her value.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    Well I'd say it's quite difficult to define exactly what treating someone in those ways entails. Is negging disrespectful? Some would say it is, some would say it isn't.
    It just generally means not being a ****.

    Say hello, be polite just like you would with any other human being, this is what another poster meant earlier when he was talking about social equals.

    Constantly dishing out compliments and throwing your money away isn't being respectful.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    It just generally means not being a ****.

    Say hello, be polite just like you would with any other human being, this is what another poster meant earlier when he was talking about social equals.

    Constantly dishing out compliments and throwing your money away isn't being respectful.
    But that's not helpful advice, just making incredibly obvious, vague statements like that doesn't help people improve the way they approach women.

    That isn't a great way to talk to a girl at a club at all. You've got to remember, pretty girls in clubs get approached very often, you've got to make yourself stand out a bit. If you are very attractive that tactic might be ok, but generally you have to show something attractive in your personality as well.

    It is how the media teach us to act, a lot of "players" in fiction constantly buy women drinks. It is hardly surprising that younger guys pick up unsuccessful habits.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    It just generally means not being a ****.

    Say hello, be polite just like you would with any other human being, this is what another poster meant earlier when he was talking about social equals.

    Constantly dishing out compliments and throwing your money away isn't being respectful.
    Unfortunately, as the poster below me mentioned, this sort of information of just acting "the same as with anyone else" does not help.

    Of course, I totally agree that dishing out compliments and throwing your money on a woman is NOT a way to show respect
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    Hi OP,fancy making a women's guide to being successful with men?
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    But that's not helpful advice, just making incredibly obvious, vague statements like that doesn't help people improve the way they approach women.

    That isn't a great way to talk to a girl at a club at all. You've got to remember, pretty girls in clubs get approached very often, you've got to make yourself stand out a bit. If you are very attractive that tactic might be ok, but generally you have to show something attractive in your personality as well.

    It is how the media teach us to act, a lot of "players" in fiction constantly buy women drinks. It is hardly surprising that younger guys pick up unsuccessful habits.
    It's not helpful to say that being respectful doesn't mean buying drinks and dishing out compliments...

    Well, as a female who's goes to clubs, it's sure is preferable to being bought a drink, getting told I'm pretty etc and being expected to put out in return.

    Of course you having something attractive in your personality is important, and this is where boring people fail.

    If you've nothing to say about yourself then you'll fail, whether your nice/respectful or not.
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    (Original post by dgeorge)
    Unfortunately, as the poster below me mentioned, this sort of information of just acting "the same as with anyone else" does not help.

    Of course, I totally agree that dishing out compliments and throwing your money on a woman is NOT a way to show respect
    Why wouldn't it help someone who's overawed by the opposite sex that their first instinct is to flash the cash and dish out compliments?
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    Why wouldn't it help someone who's overawed by the opposite sex that their first instinct is to flash the cash and dish out compliments?
    It's not just about NOT doing the wrong things, it's also about doing the right things.

    I may not be flashing cash and throwing compliments left right and center, but doesn't mean I'll be any better at attracting the opposite sex
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    It's not helpful to say that being respectful doesn't mean buying drinks and dishing out compliments...

    Well, as a female who's goes to clubs, it's sure is preferable to being bought a drink, getting told I'm pretty etc and being expected to put out in return.

    Of course you having something attractive in your personality is important, and this is where boring people fail.

    If you've nothing to say about yourself then you'll fail, whether your nice/respectful or not.
    I was referring to you saying "It just generally means not being a ****."

    But this is meant to be advice for guys who are trying to get "something in return". The aim is for more than the girl to have a nice conversation (though she will enjoy the conversation a lot if you succeed in using PUA tactics).

    But you have to convey that attractive part of your personality- or, even better, expand it. Or, if you don't have it, fake it. But the conveying is often the hard part. It isn't easy to show, in a short period of time, what a fun, interesting, exciting, desirable person you are.

    True, but some people find it very hard to talk about themselves. How do I convey how intelligent I am quite quickly without seeming boastful, or a know-it-all, or boring her? That isn't that easy, which is why the little tricks you can learn can be very effective.

    Of course, you have to try to work the girl out as well. Some girls seem to react really well to you making little jokes at them (my favourite was taking the piss out of where they're from), whereas others will tell you to **** off.
 
 
 
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