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    (Original post by Kiwiguy)

    Would you prefer to be called the negro's?
    Would you prefer to be called the illiterate?

    Hero, heroes. Do you spot a pattern?
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    No surprise really, as so few black kids get even the minimum requirement for Oxford, AAA. And before you bash me, the statistics linked in the article on the University of Oxford's website confirms this.
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    The response on Oxford's website sums everything up brilliantly. Yes, the statistics are disgusting and there is a serious problem, but Oxford are not to blame and blaming it on racism is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Norbertnorbert)
    The response on Oxford's website sums everything up brilliantly. Yes, the statistics are disgusting and there is a serious problem, but Oxford are not to blame and blaming it on racism is ridiculous.
    I

    I completely agree. The majority of the country is in fact white and most Oxbridge applicants are from white middle class families so the statistics don't surprise me. Oxbridge just choose the best applicants; positive discrimination just to create a more diverse university would not be fair to applicants and give someone an advantage just because of their race - which is essentially racism.
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    (Original post by Norbertnorbert)
    The response on Oxford's website sums everything up brilliantly. Yes, the statistics are disgusting and there is a serious problem, but Oxford are not to blame and blaming it on racism is ridiculous.
    Why are the figures disgusting? They are consistent with psychometric data which consistently shows a 1 standard deviation difference between groups (see Philip L Roth's 2001 meta analysis of over 6 million people).

    Steve Hsu has an excellent post here on why some group differences are plausible.

    Two groups that form distinct clusters are likely to exhibit different frequency distributions over various genes, leading to group differences.

    This leads us to two very distinct possibilities in human genetic variation:

    Hypothesis 1: (the PC mantra) The only group differences that exist between the clusters (races) are innocuous and superficial, for example related to skin color, hair color, body type, etc.

    Hypothesis 2: (the dangerous one) Group differences exist which might affect important (let us say, deep rather than superficial) and measurable characteristics, such as cognitive abilities, personality, athletic prowess, etc.

    Note H1 is under constant revision, as new genetically driven group differences (e.g., particularly in disease resistance) are being discovered. According to the mantra of H1 these must all (by definition) be superficial differences.

    A standard argument against H2 is that the 50k years during which groups have been separated is not long enough for differential natural selection to cause any group differences in deep characteristics. I find this argument quite naive, given what we know about animal breeding and how evolution has affected the (ever expanding list of) "superficial" characteristics. Many genes are now suspected of having been subject to strong selection over timescales of order 5k years or less. For further discussion of H2 by Steve Pinker, see here.
    http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/01...nomes-and.html

    It is likely that the Chinese will uncover the genetic basis for this sooner or later.

    The BGI was the first outfit to clone pigs, and it has developed a new and more effective way of cloning mammals that might ultimately be applied to humans, if that were ever permitted.

    But the organisation is involved in even more controversial projects. It is about to embark on a search for the genetic underpinning of intelligence. Two thousand Chinese schoolchildren will have 2,000 of their protein-coding genes sampled, and the results correlated with their test scores at school. Though it will cover less than a tenth of the total number of protein-coding genes, it will be the largest-scale examination to date of the idea that differences between individuals’ intelligence scores are partly due to differences in their DNA.

    Dr Yang is also candid about the possibility of the 1,000-genome project revealing systematic geographical differences in human genetics—or, to put it politically incorrectly, racial differences. The differences that have come to light so far are not in sensitive areas such as intelligence. But if his study of schoolchildren does find genes that help control intelligence, a comparison with the results of the 1,000-genome project will be only a mouse-click away.
    http://www.economist.com/node/163494...ry_id=16349434
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    I personally do not believe Oxbridge to be racist, however I think they could acquire information regarding the race of those applying pre-interview.

    The KCL application portal lists your name amongst other personal details on the site, contradicting the believe that they only "see" your UCAS ID number. If they can attain such details then surely the candidate's race can be discovered with relative easy by any University?
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    (Original post by semolina pilchard)
    I personally do not believe Oxbridge to be racist, however I think they could acquire information regarding the race of those applying pre-interview.

    The KCL application portal lists your name amongst other personal details on the site, contradicting the believe that they only "see" your UCAS ID number. If they can attain such details then surely the candidate's race can be discovered with relative easy by any University?
    I severely doubt that the universities compare the candidates to a colour chart.
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    (Original post by fran.ha)
    Where is there a space on the application form to say you're black?
    You can choose to declare your ethnicity somewhere on the UCAS website I think
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    (Original post by Kerny)
    You can choose to declare your ethnicity somewhere on the UCAS website I think
    Well if you can choose to do so, then it can be presumed thats its not something that is actually noted by the universities.
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      Two Oxbridge colleges took no male students last year

      Shocking!
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      (Original post by Apagg)
      Unless you can provide a source for this I will just have to assume you're making it up to suit your agenda. I'm almost certain that 1/3 of white applicants are not successful given that applications for places are way in excess of 3 to 1 for most courses and most applicants are white.

      In any case, it still wouldn't necessarily be a sign of racism, as Oxford say "Once black students do apply, Oxford's own recent analysis shows that subject choice is a major reason for their lower success rate. Black students apply disproportionately for the most oversubscribed subjects. 44% of all black applicants apply for Oxford’s three most oversubscribed subjects (compared to just 17% of all white applicants). That means that nearly half of black applicants are applying for the same three subjects, and these are the three toughest subjects for admission."
      Yes I agree, racism in the UK, yet alone in the education system is a myth.
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/....raceinschools
      • PS Helper
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      (Original post by Nick Longjohnson)
      :rofl:

      Filename: 1031_Blackstudent.jpg
      Imagine the photographer's relief: "yes, I've found one!"
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      (Original post by Jamie)
      Two Oxbridge colleges took no male students last year

      Shocking!
      It's not really, it's quite consistent with years of psychometric results showing a 1 standard deviation difference between groups.

      Gottfredson, L. S. (2005). Implications of cognitive differences for schooling within diverse societies. Pages 517-554 in C. L. Frisby & C. R. Reynolds (Eds.), Comprehensive Handbook of Multicultural School Psychology. New York: Wiley.

      http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson...ediversity.pdf
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      If Oxbridge were really racist then there wouldn't be so many Asians there :P
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      lol. A Lot of posts on this thread have deginerated into a race war. People! Please wake up. Everyone is posing reasons why 'its not'. Has anyone posed a reason why the black students are not admitted? There have been some silly comments like 'this is racism/ not racism'. Has it solved the issue?

      Let us concentrate on the possible reasons instead of stupidly saying racism doesnt exist. The papers havent called it racism. And most here cant define it or understand it. I am black, African, married to a Japanese and still dont understand it.

      So, can we kindly focus on why these statistics exist. Do a lot of blacks apply to oxford? No. Can a lot of blacks compete with the calibre of students there? A few but they will be a select minority. Remember over 40% of their students are from private schools. Are a lot of blacks interested in Oxbridge? No! Please,weigh the aforementioned statements.

      I attended the summer school and I was the only guy interested in Engineering and just one of 2 black guys to attend the school. Will I apply to Oxbridge? Off course! Will I get in? I hope so. Because I am black? Off course not! Because I am clever enough? Off course not. This is the no 1 institution on the planet. I dont believe I am that clever.

      So despite being African and the statistics it doesnt deter me. So, what is detering the blacks from applying and gaining admission? Lets concentrate on that.
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        (Original post by Chi019)
        It's not really, it's quite consistent with years of psychometric results showing a 1 standard deviation difference between groups.

        Gottfredson, L. S. (2005). Implications of cognitive differences for schooling within diverse societies. Pages 517-554 in C. L. Frisby & C. R. Reynolds (Eds.), Comprehensive Handbook of Multicultural School Psychology. New York: Wiley.

        http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson...ediversity.pdf
        Read my post silly.

        Two Oxbridge colleges took no male students last year
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        (Original post by Jamie)
        Read my post silly.

        Two Oxbridge colleges took no male students last year
        Only two, LOL? There are three all girls colleges just a Cambridge. Are you suggesting that a lucky male has managed to get himself enrolled at one of them?
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        I'm pretty sure you do state your race on the UCAS form so Oxbridge (or any other university) would be able to know your race before you even apply.
        However, I do not say that that is why Oxbridge do not accept black students. They choose the best candidates and I am pretty sure that the number of black students applying to Oxbridge is low, hence the unlikeliness of many black students being admitted.

        I, by the way, am a year 11 black student who hopes on maybe going to Oxbridge myself. I don't see the need in playing the race card every time someone recognises the few black students in Oxbridge.
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        This isn't the university's fault. It clearly states that information such as Race and wealth etc are not passed onto university. Surely these statistics indicates that this stems from schooling, e.g. not being encouraged enough to apply to university and aim 'high'. Statistics came out a few years ago that over 50% of the students at Oxbridge were Privately education, baring in mind that less then 6% of children go to private school. Again, this is not universities faults. It clearly highlights the need to do something about our education system. It's not fair that some people are given better chances purely because they are from a more privileged background.
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        "I'm black and applied for Law at Oxford this year. Got 5 As at AS level, near-perfect predictions far beyond what they ask for and pretty nifty GCSE grades too. Didn't even get an interview and everyone thought there was something smelly in the water. They never told me why I wasn't good enough. I would be very worried for the future and direction of our society if this is why."

        There is so much information we don't have. Such as
        -What the subjects at AS actually are
        -What the GCSE grades are beyond "pretty nifty" (I would call 6A* at GCSE really pretty nifty but that won't get you an interview)
        -Personal Statement
        -Teacher's references
        -The context (i.e. school) from which the student applied

        So to give us this select information and rule that 'there is something smelly in the water' is completely bull****. Around 45-50% of applicants for Law get rejected pre-interview. To try and pin it on race is to shrug away from the harsh reality of a competetive subject at a competetive university.
       
       
       
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