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    I'm so relieved to be welsh right now. I love our little government.
    Poor you limeys though Gutting.
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    (Original post by The_Male_Melons)
    I got neg raped by stupid Labourites.
    I want to know why there was no riots when Labour introduced this?
    There were protests.

    There are several reasons why the protests this time around were much bigger though:
    1 - The actual amount. £3k a year is manageable, you can save for that if you try. £9k a year is a totally different ball game.

    2 - Labour did not get into power based on that one policy. The lib dems probably would not be in coalition had it not been for the student vote.

    3 - The fact is that a lot of students are more left wing and tend to lean towards Labour.

    4 - Labour were not slashing funding to Universities by 80% (and totally cutting all funding for some subjects).

    5 - Labour were not taking away EMA and other support for poorer students.

    6 - Labour did not try to duck out of the way of the actual issue. With the coalition, pretty much the only answer being given is "look at the mess we were left with" (when these changes in fees will do nothing to help the deficit).

    I think that roughly covers it.
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    (Original post by Wednesday Bass)
    We do have a democracy. As I said, it might not be a strong democratic process - but it is democratic. The government are held accountable to the electorate.

    You may need to look up your definition of democracy and look into different types.
    We have a constitutional monarchy, with parliamentary liberal democracy. Supposedly. However it is in need of serious reform. People often see democracy as something you can tick off and say 'its done'. In reality its more complicated than that and there are plenty of countries with more democratic and liberal system of governments than us. If we had an elected second chamber with political teeth (if the house of lords were elected) maybe we could have relied on it to send the bill back to the house of commons to be revised or stopped all together, like in America. No chance of that now. What Britain has is a elected dictatorship with no serious mechanism to keep it in check. A political party can be elected and there is little in its way of having its bill stopped. Its terrible and pretty illiberal.


    (Original post by FyreFight)
    Shut up Teveth.
    Do you think poorer students being dumped with £50,000+ (fees and accommodation only) debt is a joke? are you retarded? get a grip mate and grow up.

    (Original post by meenu89)
    If Labour were increasing fees would you have taken to the streets, and did you do so when they introduced fees?

    For the record this is the second time I am asking him this, but I don't expect an answer!
    The vast majority I believe are fighting this because this is a immoral policy, not simply ideological hatred for the Tories. I'm not denying there is no hatred for the Tories and yes they are seen as the nastier party. An image that has been reinforced for the public once again. However to believe people would not have been as angry if this was Labour is insulting peoples intelligence and political sensibilities! the public know unfairness when they see it, regardless of the party. Look at the 10p row over Gordon Browns premiership. The difference is people more epect the Tories and if anything are MORE angry at Labour. Since it is seen as a 'betrayal' of their working/low middle class roots.
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      (Original post by PerigeeApogee)
      If NOBODY voted then it would send a clear message to these party politicianst hat we're not interested in the politics they have to offer, and if this country is to move foreward in a way that suits the people, a massive overhaul of the political system is required.
      But we have criticised those who abstained in this vote as endorsers of the status quo or endorsers of the government. We do it in election and then we must be seen as the same.

      Plus I believe if you dont vote (with the option to) you cant moan but that doesnt diminish anyone's right of abstention. Just that it has consequences.

      Out of interest, what would be your overhaul?
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      (Original post by Reformed2010)
      We have a constitutional monarchy, with parliamentary liberal democracy. Supposedly. However it is in need of serious reform. People often see democracy as something you can tick off and say 'its done'. In reality its more complicated than that and there are plenty of countries with more democratic and liberal system of governments than us. If we had an elected second chamber with political teeth (if the house of lords were elected) maybe we could have relied on it to send the bill back to the house of commons to be revised or stopped all together, like in America. No chance of that now. What Britain has is a elected dictatorship with no serious mechanism to keep it in check. A political party can be elected and there is little in its way of having its bill stopped. Its terrible and pretty illiberal.
      I'm not denying that there isn't room for reform. I'm merely arguing that we do live in a democracy - albeit not a very strong one.
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      (Original post by Eloades11)
      thats just great, now i feel sorry for the medicine applicants(5 years)



      i may have to join you
      Don't know if anyone else commented on this or not, but if you enter university in 2011 you will pay the same fees adjusted for inflation for the course of your degree.

      You will also pay back it under the old regime (9% of everything over £15k) as opposed to the new regime (9% of everything over £21k)
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      Sorry, but why is anyone surprised a politician has gone against their word?
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      (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
      Sure, if I could actually pay the fees to train in the first place. Trouble is, I don't have £9-36,000 in my bank account.
      Urgh, you don't pay up front.
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      (Original post by Installation)
      Urgh, you don't pay up front.
      Read previous posts. Graduate medic. Yes I do.
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      (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
      The government =/= The Law, they can introduce and do whatever they want, the public just has to put up with it
      And why should we have to put up with it? You can if you want but thousands of other students won't stand for this
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      (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
      Read previous posts. Graduate medic. Yes I do.
      Really? Hah,well, unlucky then.
      The universities should try and plug that rather odd gap.
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      The Conservatives really know well whats best for the country - How to **** it up and blame it on someone else.
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      (Original post by dnumberwang)
      My butler and I just had a jolly good chuckle at the poor working class peasants
      My retarded stable boy and I had a jolly good chuckle because we are living off your money, plus uni is free.

      :chaplin:


      //sarcasm
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      (Original post by Hooj)
      Haha yes pay more and think more carefully before you go to Uni cus if you choose a mickey mouse course it's gonna take you all your life to pay the debt off!
      Well no, unless you die at 48, but i get your point.
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      (Original post by dnumberwang)
      Yes... I fail.
      First time I clicked on the facebook link, made me kinda worried :eek:
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      Gah. Clegg has confirmed his place as Cameron's whipping boy. :hump:
      But seriously, although when you analyse the repayment system it really isn't crippling, the fact that people see £6000 and go :eek3: is probably going to cause people to panic and rethink going to university. If I was going to uni in 2012, I'd either rethink university or make sure I was doing a course like Law at a top ten uni.
      I hate to sound petulant, but I just don't think this is fair.

      I'd understand a fee increase if they'd also increased university teaching funding but the fact is, teaching funding has been cut which leads me to wonder what the increased fees are actually for.
      Also, I've always been unclear about how an increase in fees means more money for the government as they're going to have to provide higher grants and loans to cover the cost. Where does that money come from?
      Perhaps this is because I don't fully understand every aspect but everything about this, from the sell out Lib Dems who voted for fee increases to the cuts in teaching funding seems ridiculous.
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      (Original post by cambo211)
      Don't know if anyone else commented on this or not, but if you enter university in 2011 you will pay the same fees adjusted for inflation for the course of your degree.

      You will also pay back it under the old regime (9% of everything over £15k) as opposed to the new regime (9% of everything over £21k)
      Oh right, thats just great isnt it. But hey, it had to come, so I couldnt careless really. Unlike the protesters, who want to smash up everything
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        (Original post by PerigeeApogee)
        The idea that if you don't vote than you can't moan is absolute nonsense. It's rather often and frequent that the list of possible candidates contains no single candidate whose views and aims resonate with those of the voter, and so it is completely within the rights of that person to abstain from voting from any of them, and moan about the fact that the variety is so poor which leads to unsatisfactory wins.
        Indeed and I respect that but not voting shows a lack of interest, a lack of want, a lack of showing - thats what means you have no right to moan. Spoil your ballot - simple, you use your democratic right, and give the message that you wish to give to the politicians - that you dont support any of them. Spoiling your ballot shows this

        Dont vote dont moan
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        So, will masters fees suffer the increase aswell?
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          Want of mark 7 - Protest at candidates. Thats one of the official ways.

          Simply put none of the above - a clear way of showing that is a huge cross on the entire ballot paper - thats clear.

          as I've said, dont bother voting = dont bother complaining.
         
         
         
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