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    (Original post by JMG89)
    hahaha states do not work like businesses.
    Never a truer word spoken.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    Hah, I love how you replaced 'people' with 'taxpayers'. Shows how much you Tories obsess about money, innit.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    hahaha states do not work like businesses. Yes i apologize i did mean trillion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._%28nominal%29

    GDP is the measure of the size of an economy. Obviously on this website you ignore the EU as it is not a country.

    Are you aware of the work of Keynes?????????????????????????? Are you aware of what the the US government at doing at the moment, one hint they are not cutting like us.

    i'm sorry but your argument is based around a lot of ignorance of how a state works and how an economy works. I really can't be bothered to continue arguing this but judging by your response to the suggestion of spending your way out of debt it demonstrates you need to do some more reading, perhaps look at the wikipedia article on Keynes.
    Oh dear.......
    You really have lowered the bar.....I studied economics and am well aware of keynsian economics thanks...and how in a world with capitalist and market economies, and an intrinsic trend for oligopolistic industry, 21st centry macroeconomics is far more complex than a few models....you clearly have no idea!

    I have far more experience and success in business than you and think you need to come out of your little world and experience what is actually going on globally, in business, which is inevitably what drives the global economy....not students.

    You mentioned that businesses no longer need to pay for training if they employ students...this is also rubbish...students these days graduate far less "qualified" than they used to 20 years ago and require MORE training.

    You are still young and have a lot to learn about life and the world, outside of your own.

    I think it is good you have passion and despite a average level of intelect, you could work hard at what you are studying, Geography or whatever it might be, and make a success of your life....but dont buy too much beer of puff as you wont have much change after paying your fees.
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    So....why dont we carry on these protests until they give up?
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    Unfortunatly wrong again....as much as we dont like to admit it....they are businesses...who do you think is the biggest employer in the world.....?

    The NHS.
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    (Original post by profoflife)
    Oh dear.......
    You really have lowered the bar.....I studied economics and am well aware of keynsian economics thanks...and how in a world with capitalist and market economies, and an intrinsic trend for oligopolistic industry, 21st centry macroeconomics is far more complex than a few models....you clearly have no idea!

    I have far more experience and success in business than you and think you need to come out of your little world and experience what is actually going on globally, in business, which is inevitably what drives the global economy....not students.

    You mentioned that businesses no longer need to pay for training if they employ students...this is also rubbish...students these days graduate far less "qualified" than they used to 20 years ago and require MORE training.

    You are still young and have a lot to learn about life and the world, outside of your own.

    I think it is good you have passion and despite a average level of intelect, you could work hard at what you are studying, Geography or whatever it might be, and make a success of your life....but dont buy too much beer of puff as you wont have much change after paying your fees.
    you compared a state to a business which has completely ruined your argument. Please don't patronise me, i have spent months discussing these issues with University lecturers and my peers. There are also some very good videos of lectures about these issues online, especially on the cambridge occupation page.

    My life is not about making money. There is more to life than that. These are the issues i would like to spend my life engaging with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U well worth a watch only 10 minutes long.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    But raising fees does nothing to help the short term deficit.
    The government still have to fund the (now increased) student loans, so will still be out of pocket until at least when the loans start to get paid back (probably around 2020 ish). Even then, a large number of students will not pay back the loans, so the government will be out of pocket.
    This is true but the larger picture needs to be looked at - the economy needs to be thought about long term before we are safe enough to be able to fix things in the short term (by eg lowering income tax but massively increasing VAT so people are being charged for what they buy not what they earn - a much fairer system as this fixes people living off benifits with a higher income than people with jobs... but I digress - a whole different problem!) and essentially the fees are going to the government anyway so it isn't costing the government anything for the people to go through university - all it means is that they will basically get money for free if they can wait. So not really out of pocket.
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    (Original post by profoflife)
    I have far more experience and success in business than you and think you need to come out of your little world and experience what is actually going on globally, in business, which is inevitably what drives the global economy....not students.

    You are still young and have a lot to learn about life and the world, outside of your own.
    Foremost, have you ever considered education for its own sake? Afterall, this is the REAL value of university fees: knowledge, and not your employability. If you think more about the latter, more fool you for spending ~$50,000 on a pointless education.

    I think you might wanna reflect on the latter comment, too.
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    (Original post by Atomik)
    Hah, I love how you replaced 'people' with 'taxpayers'. Shows how much you Tories obsess about money, innit.
    Actually as not all people pay taxes, people and taxpayers are often completely different things and as "thatcher" (as much as they should not be using the alias of such a legend) is only talking about the taxpayers of the country, they are corrfect in not using the much more general word of "people".
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    (Original post by Glenbot3000)
    Foremost, have you ever considered education for its own sake? Afterall, this is the REAL value of university fees: knowledge, and not your employability. If you think more about the latter, more fool you for spending ~$50,000 on a pointless education.

    I think you might wanna reflect on the latter comment, too.
    What good is knowledge if you dont use it? Surely there needs to be a point for the state to pay for a whim or a wish for knowledge...thats the most selfish thing ive heard and contradicts the argument for it being paid for. By all means study for the sake of it, but dont expect me to pay for it.
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    (Original post by profoflife)
    Yes, i would agree with it. I dont expect you to understand now as you can only see what is right in front of you....but when you graduate and start working, and pay off your debt, and start earning reasonable money, you will reaslie that it was the right thing to do.
    Well then I guess I will have to wait at least 10 years before I understand but in the mean time I don't and I think it is pathetic.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    My life is not about making money. There is more to life than that. These are the issues i would like to spend my life engaging with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U well worth a watch only 10 minutes long.
    Whilst it is very interesting, this is addressing the need to change the culture of education which is a completely different issue all together. Its all very nice but the reality is where we are today and our own future.....sure, there are many social problems which have been created by a changing populus but with the same systems and i couldnt agree more that there is a need for change.

    But we are talking about paying for education. Its a hard fact that it needs to be paid for along with everything else that affords a reasonably high standard of living in the UK.

    Sorry to disagree again, but the state is a business...the NHS is the largest employer in the world. The problem is polotics - The country would be a whole lot better if there was no politics...this is what causes the problem....the popularity contest. If governments made all decisions in the interest of the country, they wouldnt last 5 minutes.
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    (Original post by xxscoobyxx)
    This is true but the larger picture needs to be looked at - the economy needs to be thought about long term before we are safe enough to be able to fix things in the short term
    While I would agree with that, what you have said is also the problem.
    The coalition are not looking at things in the long term. They are looking at things in the very short term, with the aim of getting the out of its deficit by 2015, just in time for the next election. The way they are going about all the cuts and changes suggests that they do not care about the long term impacts, just as long as the deficit is gone in 2015 so they can use it as a election campaign point.

    (Original post by profoflife)
    What good is knowledge if you dont use it? Surely there needs to be a point for the state to pay for a whim or a wish for knowledge...thats the most selfish thing ive heard and contradicts the argument for it being paid for. By all means study for the sake of it, but dont expect me to pay for it.
    Sorry but I disagree.
    What about people who go into research? Most do that because that is what their interests are. Whilst businesses do often benefit from research, there is also a lot of research going on that is very very interesting, but will probably yield no commercial benefit.

    Plus, in today's society, a lot of people are effectively forced to get a degree that they won't really use in the workplace, simply because employers are asking for a degree for jobs that simply don't need one.
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    (Original post by The_Male_Melons)
    Only 44% disapprove of this coalition. Over 50% would disapprove if it was a Lib-Lab coalition. The party isn't going to die.

    I hope the coalition continues well after the 2015 election.
    U iz a disgarace tu studins inniit. You iz a tory toff.
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    (Original post by FaraxZeroIncome)
    U iz a disgarace tu studins inniit. You iz a tory toff.
    I am a tory. I am not a toff. lol. U iz a disgarace wit wrds u usin blud.
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    (Original post by xxscoobyxx)
    Actually as not all people pay taxes, people and taxpayers are often completely different things and as "thatcher" (as much as they should not be using the alias of such a legend) is only talking about the taxpayers of the country, they are corrfect in not using the much more general word of "people".
    Yes, I know this, but why did he/she refer to taxpayers instead of people in general? Is it because people who do not work/pay tax are less worthy of an opinion?
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    (Original post by profoflife)
    Whilst it is very interesting, this is addressing the need to change the culture of education which is a completely different issue all together. Its all very nice but the reality is where we are today and our own future.....sure, there are many social problems which have been created by a changing populus but with the same systems and i couldnt agree more that there is a need for change.

    But we are talking about paying for education. Its a hard fact that it needs to be paid for along with everything else that affords a reasonably high standard of living in the UK.

    Sorry to disagree again, but the state is a business...the NHS is the largest employer in the world. The problem is polotics - The country would be a whole lot better if there was no politics...this is what causes the problem....the popularity contest. If governments made all decisions in the interest of the country, they wouldnt last 5 minutes.
    That is a very strange logic. That because something employs someone it is a business. Is the British Army a business because it employs soldiers?? Are the Police a business??

    Although i agree politics is the big problem.
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    Whereas if students had done nothing, and remained apathetic, people would be on their side? The point of the protests is to raise publicity, make people aware of the changes being put through by the government. I think that in this respect, the protests have been successful. Certainly the Lib Dems aren't feeling too comfortable about them.
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    You can't kill the tuition increase
    The tuition increase will live on

    Punk rock tried to kill the tuition increase
    But they failed as they were smited to the ground

    New wave tried to kill the tuition increase
    But they failed as they were stricken down to the ground

    Students tried to kill the tuition increase
    Hahahahaha they failed as they were thrown to the ground
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    That ass-hat of a Cambridge uni' student swinging on the Cenotaph in London majorly pisses me off.
 
 
 
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