Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Wacp)
    WTF are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense.



    No, what the Quran has is some vague verses which some Muslims, retrospectively, and with a lot of imagination, are juxtaposing onto modern scientific discoveries.



    What do you mean it is 'not a deal breaker'? The scientific community and academia virtually universally supports evolution as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, anthropology, and others. Denying it means you're contradicting science.



    Evidence?
    In essence the decline of Christianity which we have seen over the decades what with “science and reasoning” is something which some believe will also happen to islam. I don’t believe this will be the case as muslims tend to be consistent in their beliefs even though it may go against the popular view of that particular society. This is the reason why I believe Christianity has been in decline… I don’t believe islam will follow this pattern.

    with regards to scientific verses in the quran, muslims can only interpret it retrospectively….. In short muslims and some non-muslim believe that science doesn’t contradict their faith so I don’t believe will have any affect on the Islamic faith and its number of followers.

    The scientific field may hold the popular views but it don’t believe that “science and reasoning” will have an impact on islam as it has done on Christianity (perhaps due to the different books and following of the Christian texts) and the one consistant quran….

    Science is not a force to “defeat” a religion. It didn’t set out to “defeat” Christianity.......

    Sorry, been waffling on..... In short, don't believe science will have an impact/pose opposition on islam and its growth as it has possibly done with christianity.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Fredrik Reinfeldt, Sweden's prime minister, said it was too early to reach any conclusions and warned that speculation could lead to tensions.


    why do you rush to conclusion that the terror attack was commited by muslim when swedish authority didnt.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Do you think we would have invaded Pakistan if they didn't have nukes? Of course we would. Furthermore in Pakistan we have an at least slightly accepting state, who is willing to try and build an army to make its citizens behave appropriately in the international environment. The Taliban were never going to play ball. The million or so dead are dead thanks to Islam, we in fact only killed 1-2% of all civilians. And of the civilians we did kill in Afghanistan/Iraq, only a small handful were on purpose. This is why other countries like Pakistan and Somalia that we haven't invaded have almost similar death counts, despite a lack of our troops being there.
    Yes I know pakistan wasn't invaded because of their nuclear weapons and also due to the likely risk of wider war with india, escalting to a massive scale.
    Not the mention the possible backlash from pakistani back in britian (labour voters) rioting when they see british troops pump metal into thier friends and family in pakistan!

    what do you mean by 'willling to try and build an army to make its citizens behave appropriately in the international environment'????
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bunty64)
    Yes I know pakistan wasn't invaded because of their nuclear weapons and also due to the likely risk of wider war with india, escalting to a massive scale.
    Not the mention the possible backlash from pakistani back in britian (labour voters) rioting when they see british troops pump metal into thier friends and family in pakistan!

    what do you mean by 'willling to try and build an army to make its citizens behave appropriately in the international environment'????
    I mean that the development money we are giving to Afghanistan is in order for them to build a system through which they can be governed and stopped from harming our citizens. We need to be present in that country to make sure they are doing this, admittedly we aren't doing a good job. Pakistan is different. The head of state there is more willing to go about doing our bidding. Geopolitics is nothing new, and war is specifically designed to compel others to fulfil our wishes.

    War is the continuation of politics by other means as Clausewitz would say. He would also say war is designed to do 2 things:
    1) Achieve limited aims.
    2) To disarm the enemy.

    Where we are failing in this war is that we have not created limited aims, we have created unlimited aims. We are however somewhat succeeding in creating a system that systematically disarms the enemy on our behalf.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    hopeee this helps...and clarifies ALOT of things for the narrow minded people out there.
    http://www.alislam.org/topics/reply/2010_spring.pdf
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Christianity created the environment for these things to be discovered, in the same way Islam stifles such an environment of discovery from being created. If you are going to attribute things discovered in an Islamic world to Islam, you could at least not be hypocritical and apply that same logic to Christianity.
    The inventions you actually referred to were created in secular states devoid of religious (or Christian) rule whereas the ideas conceived during the Islamic Golden Age were nurtured in the Islamic caliphate.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    The inventions you actually referred to were created in secular states devoid of religious (or Christian) rule whereas the ideas conceived during the Islamic Golden Age were nurtured in the Islamic caliphate.
    Christianity does not call for Christian rule, whereas Islam does. The vast majority of the citizenry making up the secular state were Christian. Take a look at Turkey, also secular but made up of Muslims - almost zero scientific discoveries and none of any real merit. Clearly the religious make up of the country has a massive bearing.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Take your head out of your *********. I'm pretty sure the Israeli Palestine conflict has one of the lowest casualty rates of any modern conflict. Have you ever spared a thought for those innocent Jewish children and women who have suffered for thousands of years at the hands of Christian Europe and Muslims? Have you every thought about things from Israels point of view? (Having a whole region despise you (even want you dead) because you try to take back your holy land from a group of rootless Arab invaders left over in the region).

    Do you ever spare a thought for the innocent women who have practically zero human rights under Taliban rule? Someone said earlier in this thread if we could stop Muslim terrorism today the biggest beneficiaries would be Muslims themselves and people agreed. Isn't this justification for the "invasion" of Iraq and Afghanistan? The war is not on the actual country but the dictators and brutal regimes which not only pose a threat to the surrounding region but the West too. (Don't talk about Saddam - any notion that we instated him initially only DOUBLES our responsibility to remove him).

    You even talked about this stemming from the westernization of Muslim countries... really? It works both ways... Not only have western countries become more tolerant of Middle Eastern culture (even if it conflicts with their own) but these westernized Muslim countries are MORE THAN HAPPY to receive trade & business from the west. This is how civilization works and progresses. Stop ****ing blaming the big bad west/evil Jews for the problems and instability in that region.

    It stems down to a conflict between fundamental Islam ideologies/backwards culture and the direction in which the world is moving.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6090432829344#
    The Jews and the West are to blame for much of the unrest in the Middle East conflict and most importantly the anger being felt against the occupation of Iraq and Afganistan by the West.

    Seeing as you know how civilization works can you tell me why the Israelis are demolishing Palestinians homes and building Israeli settlements on Palestinian land? Put yourself in their position for a second.

    Why should care about Jews, they're enjoying the luxuries that have been given to them thanks to the West. The US and it's Western allies have been backing Israel's oppression against Palestinians for years now so why on earth who I need to care about Jews who are much better off than Palestinians.

    Extremism by some Muslims is a result of the west supporting the actions of Israel against the Palestinians and the invasion of Iraq and Afganistan. These are the 3 main courses Islamic extremism and terrorism today. If the west were to back off these muslim countries and let them be would there be this threat of terrorism? No, because there aren't any motives to target the west.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    What the attacks by the US in Libya, Somalia, the drone attacks in Pakistan and Afganistan killing god knows how many innocent civilains?
    Yeah, it's all awful, but I know where I would rather live. Besides, many of my events took place before any of the ones you listed did. America is not the great evil, al-Qadea et al are.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I love how the TSR Communist Society is out in force negging posts that dare to condemn this. Do you condone Islamic terrorism or something? :mad:
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rquaresma)
    oh so muslims are terrorists you say? how come i aint bombed or hurt anyone yet?
    Exactly "yet" you must be biding your time or something
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Christianity does not call for Christian rule, whereas Islam does. The vast majority of the citizenry making up the secular state were Christian. Take a look at Turkey, also secular but made up of Muslims - almost zero scientific discoveries and none of any real merit. Clearly the religious make up of the country has a massive bearing.
    Were the inventors Christian? They're overwhelmingly atheist from what I know so I don't see what other people have to do with it? Unless you mean because their neighbours were Christian they learnt more? Parts of Europe were ruled by Christianity so it did happen before secularism rose. Turkey in its current form (secular reform under Ataturk) hasn't been around long but there were significant contributions when it was the Ottoman Empire.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    I love how the TSR Communist Society is out in force negging posts that dare to condemn this. Do you condone Islamic terrorism or something? :mad:
    No, the OP was using this to specifically attack Islam, not 'Islamic terrorism', although I would class it as simply terrorism as I cannot see how it is linked to Islam as a religion itself, the bombing took place because of, apparent, political reasons.


    Thoughts go out to the family of the injured and the dead.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    Were the inventors Christian? They're overwhelmingly atheist from what I know so I don't see what other people have to do with it? Unless you mean because their neighbours were Christian they learnt more? Parts of Europe were ruled by Christianity so it did happen before secularism rose. Turkey in its current form (secular reform under Ataturk) hasn't been around long but there were significant contributions when it was the Ottoman Empire.
    didnt christianity hold back science during the dark ages?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheBrightShadow)
    didnt christianity hold back science during the dark ages?
    That is what many argue yes. A lot of it was down to the church holding a monopoly on a lot of literature and knowledge (and making a lot of money from it) so if others tried to translate books and whatnot people could learn independently rather than from priests. By persecuting those people by burning them alive for example, people would be forced to go to church to learn this stuff from priests who could read latin and were the few literate people around.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    Were the inventors Christian? They're overwhelmingly atheist from what I know so I don't see what other people have to do with it? Unless you mean because their neighbours were Christian they learnt more? Parts of Europe were ruled by Christianity so it did happen before secularism rose. Turkey in its current form (secular reform under Ataturk) hasn't been around long but there were significant contributions when it was the Ottoman Empire.
    A great deal of our greatest scientists have been Christian, because most people were then. You can hardly argue on the one hand that Islam doesn't stifle science because it once dominated a state in which science was advanced, and on the flip side of that say Islam doesn't stifle science in the states it now presides over who have had zero scientific achievement in hundreds if not thousands of years. There is also the obvious problem that we will never know if Islamic scientists were atheists, because for them to say so in their Islamic states would have meant the death penalty. It seems Christianity in the comparison stakes is a victim of its own tolerance.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I mean that the development money we are giving to Afghanistan is in order for them to build a system through which they can be governed and stopped from harming our citizens. We need to be present in that country to make sure they are doing this, admittedly we aren't doing a good job. Pakistan is different. The head of state there is more willing to go about doing our bidding. Geopolitics is nothing new, and war is specifically designed to compel others to fulfil our wishes.

    War is the continuation of politics by other means as Clausewitz would say. He would also say war is designed to do 2 things:
    1) Achieve limited aims.
    2) To disarm the enemy.

    Where we are failing in this war is that we have not created limited aims, we have created unlimited aims. We are however somewhat succeeding in creating a system that systematically disarms the enemy on our behalf.
    this doesn't seem to be the case with pakistan......
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I bet they're regretting publishing pictures of Prophet Mohammed in their newspapers. The must be very ignorant if they weren't expecting some sort of retaliation.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    Just out of interest OP, How would stopping all muslim immigration stop terrorism ?

    considering most 'terrorists' that domestically attack are born in europe anyway ...
    Because all terror attacks of late and in this day and age in the West are carried out my Muslims...simples.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheBrightShadow)
    didnt christianity hold back science during the dark ages?
    This is a common argument atheists cling to, but it is patently untrue. There was no conscious effort to stifle scientific achievement. Science for the masses only came about when the printing press did, before which time no ordinary citizen had the ability to afford a book written by hand. Books and science were done by monks because they were the only people who could look away from their constant need for survival - in the same way all science in Greece was carried out primarily by the upper classes.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.