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Maggie Thatcher - The worst PM in UK's history and an economic failure Watch

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    (Original post by orange9)
    look, selling off council houses then means that there is a lack of social housing nowadays. they've all been sold off and the situation now is that private landlords sponge off the state at the expense of the taxpayer.
    Yeah, sure, it's Thatcher's fault that Labour didn't build any after she left office :rolleyes:

    (Original post by orange9)
    if you lose your job because of a political theory, and have no hope of ever getting another because you are so specialised, it doesnt matter one jot whether spending on education, healthcare and so on goes up. whole communities became ghost towns. the amount of people in poverty increased hugely.
    How is closing down unprofitable industries a political theory? That's economic reality.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)


    How is closing down unprofitable industries a political theory? That's economic reality.
    because in some industries, quality of service is paramount, and its not necessarily a good idea to set a load of private companies riot on natural monopolies, such as railways and water works.

    and the fact that due to winding up almost all our coal mines we are now at the mercy of foreign powers for our energy needs.
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    (Original post by orange9)
    look, selling off council houses then means that there is a lack of social housing nowadays. they've all been sold off and the situation now is that private landlords sponge off the state at the expense of the taxpayer.
    They were sold to their working class tenants at a huge discount, who, in true capitalist fashion, saw the opportunity to profit by selling them on at market price.

    (Original post by orange9)
    if you lose your job because of a political theory, and have no hope of ever getting another because you are so specialised, it doesnt matter one jot whether spending on education, healthcare and so on goes up. whole communities became ghost towns. the amount of people in poverty increased hugely.
    Do you stick with a car insurance company that is costing you £500 more than a competitor because you are worried about the employees of that company losing their jobs and the consequent increase in the amount of ex car insurance salesmen and their families living in poverty?

    Do you?
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    Which is why she was elected three times, and her party 4 times. You lefty idiot.
    It's not like she is lying, those are facts. There are those who benefited from it and those who suffered from it. People were willing to betray their identity for the notion of ownership of a council house and noone tries to deny it.

    Do you think a random individual in Leeds or Birmingham had any idea what was happening to the economy? Everyone was minding their own business: as long as there was a job and the possibility to own a house she had the vote.

    Also, I find it ridiculous how people credit Thatcher with an economic success of the 1980s: almost as if one would believe that she was the architect of the 1980s boom. As a matter of fact she had nothing to do with the computing boom that irrevocably changed 1980s and benefited global capitalism as a whole.

    We could just as well have mrokayguy123 instead of Margaret Thatcher and the boom would occur. Her monetary policy & 1980s boom are completely different matters.
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    Thatcher, the worst PM since Chamberlain.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    "greed, snobbery, inhumane attitude towards society." If that's the type of offensive attitude you have towards british people, then all I can say is this: good riddance.
    I'm stating the fact. I still love the British people as I frequently said You're very welcome to my country and you'll see a massive societal difference in the Netherlands.

    It may surprise you but we even have respect for the Working Class!
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    (Original post by orange9)
    because in some industries, quality of service is paramount, and its not necessarily a good idea to set a load of private companies riot on natural monopolies, such as railways and water works.

    and the fact that due to winding up almost all our coal mines we are now at the mercy of foreign powers for our energy needs.
    We at the mercy of local unions in the 1970s, so nothing has changed in that respect. It was cheaper to import coal from Australia than it was to mine it in the UK, that should tell you something. That doesn't sound like quality service to me.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    1) why do they not belong to Britain? British citizens live there, they said a few weeks ago in a referendum they wanted to be British, so why not? Are you some Dutch dictator wishing to oppress the people of the Falklands? Why shouldn't they be allowed their freedom? Who are you to take it from them?
    2)its criminal to invade in the first place! Ever heard of the just war theory? Argentina didn't abide by it, so why should we? We were acting in self defense, we were the victims in this war, not the aggressor.
    3) the general belgrano was not surrendering, it was turning away from the Falklands. That does not mean she was surrendering, she could of just of easily turned around the next day and attacked the Royal navy fleet. This is war, people die.
    4) was the sinking of HMS Sheffield criminal? Was the sinking of the Arctic Conveyor a CIVILIAN ship criminal?

    That's an oxymoron darling

    Two wrongs don't make a right.
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    (Original post by Evie Ninnenbaum)
    It's not like she is lying, those are facts.
    How on Earth are claims like 'Falklands War Criminal', or 'Making the British economy entirely dependent on the finance sector, more so than Switzerland' (when manufacturing output grew significantly under her) fact?
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    (Original post by abzy1234)
    No one is celebrating her death. She was a prime minister, and thus she ruled the country; changing the lives of many, for the good or better it remains the same for us to debate on her impact on our country.

    She is a politician, and I'm pretty sure she would be more than happy to debate her legacy if she had a ghost!

    If our MPs can have a 8 hour debate about her, then am sure we the people ought to have a greater debate on what she stood for and what she actually did.
    Sorry. that wasn't aimed at OP but I noticed people in my town actually throwing a party because of this.
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    Which is why she was elected three times, and her party 4 times. You lefty idiot.
    I'm left of centre and I feel offended.

    To simplify it:

    79-83 Falklands
    83-87 III Industrial Revolution and the boom of global capitalism combined with 'Right to buy'
    87-90 Those who benefited from it became 'conservatives' in its literal term: conserving their homes & others became conservative-wannabees.

    What Maggie did to the human relations within the commodity producing society and its very production is completely different matter. Not to mention those at the very bottom that became the manure for the fertility of the new order.
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    hmmm
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    (Original post by Hermann Göring)
    I'm left of centre and I feel offended.

    To simplify it:

    79-83 Falklands
    83-87 III Industrial Revolution and the boom of global capitalism combined with 'Right to buy'
    87-90 Those who benefited from it became 'conservatives' in its literal term: conserving their homes & others became conservative-wannabees.

    What Maggie did to the human relations within the commodity producing society and its very production is completely different matter. Not to mention those at the very bottom that became the manure for the fertility of the new order.
    Be offended.

    To simplify it

    1. You think she should just have let a dictatorship stamp all over our people? Pathetic. Perhaps you feel that we were wrong to push Hitler out of France?

    2. Right to buy: you want to stamp over working class aspiration. Perhaps you feel people ought to stay at the bottom.

    3. Yes, they conserved their homes. Problem? Why?
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    (Original post by orange9)
    because in some industries, quality of service is paramount, and its not necessarily a good idea to set a load of private companies riot on natural monopolies, such as railways and water works.

    and the fact that due to winding up almost all our coal mines we are now at the mercy of foreign powers for our energy needs.
    Well having experienced a before and after privatisation I can say that the quality of service has improved.
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    They were sold to their working class tenants at a huge discount, who, in true capitalist fashion, saw the opportunity to profit by selling them on at market price.


    Do you stick with a car insurance company that is costing you £500 more than a competitor because you are worried about the employees of that company losing their jobs and the consequent increase in the amount of ex car insurance salesmen and their families living in poverty?



    Do you?
    no i dont. we are talking about an entire industry though here, not a car insurance company going bust. a number of the mines were profitable, which is not usually reported.

    and the major difference which you fail to understand, is that someone who has been a miner since leaving school at 15 will find it very difficult to find alternative employment. a car insurance salesman is unlikely to have this problem. its very easy to have an 'i'm alright jack' attitude to the whole thing if you've been unemployed for a length of time, as you show.

    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    We at the mercy of local unions in the 1970s, so nothing has changed in that respect. It was cheaper to import coal from Australia than it was to mine it in the UK, that should tell you something. That doesn't sound like quality service to me.
    thats true, something needed to be done to curtail the powers of the unions, that is not in doubt. what is, is the human cost, the fact that these people had no chance of getting jobs in the new service sector. people living off food parcels and in poverty. thats fine if you are signed up to the 'i'm alright jack' brigade (which you are), who are unaffected by the policy, but its real life to those affected.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Well having experienced a before and after privatisation I can say that the quality of service has improved.
    paying customers of gas / electricity companies, which is now an oligopolistic market, would disagree. same with railways and water, these markets dont favour private companies.

    screw the local leisure centre, its making a loss, lets shut it down :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by orange9)
    paying customers of gas / electricity companies, which is now an oligopolistic market, would disagree. same with railways and water, these markets dont favour private companies.
    Except it's only now that problems have developed in these areas, just like only now we have a shortage of social housing and only now is there a fundemental problem in our financial sector and only now is our manufacturing actually noticeably declining. Last time I checked Thatcher was out of office twenty three years ago, so how on Earth are any of those her fault? If a house collapses, who do you blame, it's architect or the dopey landlord who didn't maintain it properly?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except it's only now that problems have developed in these areas, just like only now we have a shortage of social housing and only now is there a fundemental problem in our financial sector and only now is our manufacturing actually noticeably declining. Last time I checked Thatcher was out of office twenty three years ago, so how on Earth are any of those her fault? If a house collapses, who do you blame, it's architect or the dopey landlord who didn't maintain it properly?
    I was watching Question time the other night and Ken Clarke summed Thatchers legacy up. She killed off Old Labour as the Labour party realised that it's trade Union/Nationalised approach to everything didn't work just as the rest of the devloped world has realised it.

    As for all of the issues, I'd agree that you can't blame that on Thatcher. I blame the short term approach the present politicians have thinking about the next election. I also blame the opposition who critise a government when it does think long term (Nuclear power/HS2) just for short term political game.

    I was having a chat with some Indiand and Chinese on my course the other day. I sked them what the world thinks about us, becasue if you read the Guardian, or any othr left wing paper we're a fading state with serious problems. Theire response was that we're still massivly respected but we need to get a bit of national pride back to get our problems sorted.
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    (Original post by orange9)
    no i dont. we are talking about an entire industry though here, not a car insurance company going bust. a number of the mines were profitable, which is not usually reported.
    And a number of mines remained open. Well, that is until Scargill came down from Yorkshire with his flying pickets... tossing the miners onto the street.

    Oh, and what do you say about the mines Wilson closed in the 60s and 70s? The left are conveniently silent on that.

    (Original post by orange9)
    and the major difference which you fail to understand, is that someone who has been a miner since leaving school at 15 will find it very difficult to find alternative employment. a car insurance salesman is unlikely to have this problem. its very easy to have an 'i'm alright jack' attitude to the whole thing if you've been unemployed for a length of time, as you show.
    I'm sorry, what? You are saying that the car insurance salesman should suck it up, get on his bike and find another job, because it's 'that easy' in your eyes, is that it? No difference to the miners then.

    Did you mean employed? Otherwise you aren't making any sense.
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    And a number of mines remained open. Well, that is until Scargill came down from Yorkshire with his flying pickets... tossing the miners onto the street.

    Oh, and what do you say about the mines Wilson closed in the 60s and 70s? The left are conveniently silent on that.



    I'm sorry, what? You are saying that the car insurance salesman should suck it up, get on his bike and find another job, because it's 'that easy' in your eyes, is that it? No difference to the miners then.
    in my opinion, a car insurance salesman would find it easier in the 21st century job market, to find work than a lifelong miner with no qualifications, thats not to say its not regrettable.

    no-where did i say 'that the car insurance salesman should suck it up, get on his bike and find another job'.


    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except it's only now that problems have developed in these areas, just like only now we have a shortage of social housing and only now is there a fundemental problem in our financial sector and only now is our manufacturing actually noticeably declining. Last time I checked Thatcher was out of office twenty three years ago, so how on Earth are any of those her fault? If a house collapses, who do you blame, it's architect or the dopey landlord who didn't maintain it properly?
    where would the money come from nowadays to build significant amounts of social housing?

    by the way i agree that whoever was in charge in 1979, changes were needed, my gripe is the harshness and cold bloodedness of the whole affair, that the legacy of miners and industry workers losing their jobs still exists today in wales, where i live.

    as students who will (touch wood) never see real poverty, its easy to become detached from the day to day reality of poverty and food parcels. i am not a labour supporter, just someone who has seen the impact of what you talk about.
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    (Original post by heyhey111)
    Sorry. that wasn't aimed at OP but I noticed people in my town actually throwing a party because of this.
    It is pretty distasteful celebrating anyone's death, regardless of how much you like or dislike a person. People shouldn't be partying, but actually respecting her demise for a week or so, then if they feel the need and passion to, peaceful protest
 
 
 
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