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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    They were not 'deliberately targeted'. I am going to need you to provide reliable sources stating that Israel deliberately targeted four boys on a beach.
    Since you prove unable to read I will repeat myself and elaborate. Those pictures clearly depict a large empty sandy space with only four children. Now this shows that their deaths weren't the outcome of a nearby strike rather they were the specific target of that strike as there wasnt anything or anyone else nearby.

    Also. Eyewitness accounts describe how the children ran away from the first strike but a second strike was launched which was the one that killed them. So not only were these four children fired upon in an otherwise empty space, but when the first strike proved unable to hit them a second strike was launched at them. Both pretty much implicate a deliberate targeting of these children whether or not it was recognized that they were children by the person or people launching the strikes.
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    (Original post by Spaz Man)
    I haven't researched it as much but if the facts are similar then yes.

    However, this thread is not dedicated to Cyprus and you knew that before replying.

    Which part of it is unreasonable?
    All of it, to be fair.

    No offence, but it reads like a very politically naive person wrote it.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    This is a war. The IDF can't hire removal vans and put on a taxi service for them. If the building is used for any military activity, it's a legitimate military target under international law. That's how it works.

    They already go above and beyond what they need to do to minimise casualties.

    Do you think the British army texts the Taliban before hitting their bases?

    Do you think NATO makes phone calls to areas where Al Qaeda are operating and notifies people of incoming strikes?

    Of course not.

    It's one rule for everyone and a separate one for Israel it seems.
    yeh boohoo Israel, they are clearly the victims of this. those inconsiderate Palestinian civilians getting in the way of their defence missiles. If I warn you that I am about to throw an explosive into your house whether or not you remain in there in the next hour, that simple act of warning doesn't legitimize the crime that I go on to then commit. Neither does it become legitimized if I suddenly say "its okay Im allowed to do this, its war".

    There is a rather big difference here, we arent talking about some secret cave in the bora bora mountains we are talking about the most densely populated area on the planet. Who knows, perhaps if the Palestinians werent penned in to such a tiny space, Hamas might have the means to relocate to a more isolated place.
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    (Original post by castlemadeofsand)
    but when the first strike proved unable to hit them a second strike was launched at them. Both pretty much implicate a deliberate targeting of these children whether or not it was recognized that they were children by the person or people launching the strikes.
    If we are to go by the witnesses - bearing in mind Hamas controls everything in Gaza where fear and intimidation are common place.

    Then I would suggest rather than it proving a deliberate attack on kids, it actually indicates an accidental targeting.

    If they went in for a second strike (not that this has been proved) then that to me suggests a case of mistaken identity.

    We have to remember that the beach saw intense fighting just two days ago when Israeli troops made a brief incursion.

    It could be that the boys stood on a mine laid out for the troops.

    Additionally, 100 rockets fired from Gaza have landed within Gazan territory.

    A young palestinain girl was killed just 3 weeks ago by a rocket fired from Gaza whjich failed to make it into Israel and landed in Gaza killing the girl.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    All of it, to be fair.

    No offence, but it reads like a very politically naive person wrote it.
    Who would be against it?
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    (Original post by miavdbt)

    Yeah, I know, that damn propaganda the CNN, NYT and BBC spew. It's so annoying! Most unreliable sources EVERR! Al Jazeera is the ONLY truth out there.


    EDIT: Whenever you can't respond to a point I make, you latch onto the font I used, or something similarly trivial. It's a little frustrating.

    (Original post by Chindits)
    How do you know they were targeted?

    How do you know they were hit by Israeli fire?

    Hamas controls everything that happens there. Hamas release casualty figures, Hamas control which reporters go where and see what.

    This is a war and people die.


    What do you think happened when British troops went to Iraq and Afghanistan? do you think they only killed baddies and never made mistakes?

    What about wedding parties being bombed?

    What about NATO bombing hospitals and markets in Serbia during that conflict?

    How about us Brits fire-bombing whole German cities in response V2 rocket fire?


    What is the fascination with Israel?

    There are over 1000 dead in Ukraine. On European soil. A few hundred of those are civilians.


    Hamas are masters at propaganda and use their people's blood to manipulate people like you into hating Israel. This is theatre for them.

    Let's not forget that the UN had to admit in the past that their war report was undermined by Hamas lying about casualty figures.

    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    Link or it didn't happen. Hamas source or Quran does not count BTW
    How are those grants working out for you?
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...a-8760142.html
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    (Original post by castlemadeofsand)
    yeh boohoo Israel, they are clearly the victims of this. those inconsiderate Palestinian civilians getting in the way of their defence missiles. If I warn you that I am about to throw an explosive into your house whether or not you remain in there in the next hour, that simple act of warning doesn't legitimize the crime that I go on to then commit. Neither does it become legitimized if I suddenly say "its okay Im allowed to do this, its war".
    It does if I was lobbing rockets at you.




    There is a rather big difference here, we arent talking about some secret cave in the bora bora mountains we are talking about the most densely populated area on the planet. Who knows, perhaps if the Palestinians werent penned in to such a tiny space, Hamas might have the means to relocate to a more isolated place.
    It's not the most densely area on the planet. It's certainly up there as being one of them though.


    There is open space in Gaza though.






    Let's not lose sight of facts.
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    (Original post by Spaz Man)
    Who would be against it?
    Everyone.

    Except left wingers on student campuses, but they don't count.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    If we are to go by the witnesses - bearing in mind Hamas controls everything in Gaza where fear and intimidation are common place.

    Then I would suggest rather than it proving a deliberate attack on kids, it actually indicates an accidental targeting.

    If they went in for a second strike (not that this has been proved) then that to me suggests a case of mistaken identity.

    We have to remember that the beach saw intense fighting just two days ago when Israeli troops made a brief incursion.

    It could be that the boys stood on a mine laid out for the troops.

    Additionally, 100 rockets fired from Gaza have landed within Gazan territory.

    A young palestinain girl was killed just 3 weeks ago by a rocket fired from Gaza whjich failed to make it into Israel and landed in Gaza killing the girl.
    It was witnessed by a Guardian journalist actually who was sat in the bar that the dying children were brought into. Nonetheless I sure that in your eyes it wont be proved until Netanyahu or Kerry say it. I mean, there is photographic and eyewitness evidence here but I'm sure its just Hamas propaganda ey. Not like the factually proven accusations that civilian deaths are because Hamas use civilians as human shields which is based solely on the words of Netanyahu and the IDFs twitter account which is without any sort of accompanying evidence (but still completely proven in your eyes im guessing?)

    Theres not really any point carrying on this discussion, as anything I say is going to be accused of being propaganda unless it fits into your dogmatic narrative of whats going on
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    It does if I was lobbing rockets at you.





    It's not the most densely area on the planet. It's certainly up there as being one of them though.


    There is open space in Gaza though.






    Let's not lose sight of facts.
    Tempted to pull a you and say something along the lines of "im not going to accept that until you offer irrefutable proof that those pictures really were taken in Gaza." So it is one of the most densely populated spaces in the world you admit? I dont think I said that there were no open spaces at all so Im not quite sure how I am 'losing sight of facts'?

    Re the rockets, a year ago the world was condemning Assad for launching missiles and bombs into densely populated areas of cities where armed opposition were considered active. This was an opposition who were a lot better equipped than Hamas and caused much more death and destruction. Obviously now however answering what are over glorified fireworks with missiles that cause much death, injury and destruction is suddenly okay I guess?
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Israel declares humanitarian truce

    A humanitarian truce by Israel has been declared to allow for aid/food etc.

    Let's hope that Hamas stop firing rockets for that period of time.
    My expectation is that Hamas and other terrorists will take advantage of the situation and intensify the rocket attacks.

    This conflict will never end until Hamas becomes an obscurity and there is a fundamental shift in ideas.
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    (Original post by castlemadeofsand)
    Tempted to pull a you and say something along the lines of "im not going to accept that until you offer irrefutable proof that those pictures really were taken in Gaza." So it is one of the most densely populated spaces in the world you admit? I dont think I said that there were no open spaces at all so Im not quite sure how I am 'losing sight of facts'?

    Re the rockets, a year ago the world was condemning Assad for launching missiles and bombs into densely populated areas of cities where armed opposition were considered active. This was an opposition who were a lot better equipped than Hamas and caused much more death and destruction. Obviously now however answering what are over glorified fireworks with missiles that cause much death, injury and destruction is suddenly okay I guess?
    Israel's fundamental mission is to destroy Hamas, and it doesn't take a genius to realise that this requires much more force than Hamas themselves are using in order to provoke this response.

    It also doesn't take a genius to see that if Hamas stopped spending their money on pointlessly lobbing rockets into Israel, and instead spent it on the people they purport to represent, the lives of both Palestinians and Israelis would be much improved.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Everyone.

    Except left wingers on student campuses, but they don't count.
    I strongly disagree. The vast majority of people (including pro-Israel supporters) are in favour of the rule of law. All of the steps outlined are simply upholding the rule of law in order to attain justice.

    There's nothing in there to "hurt" Israel except that which it would deliberately, temporarily bring upon itself by violating the rule of law through the continuation of its occupation of the Palestinian people.
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    I know this is going to appear really ignorant, but could someone explain to me relatively simply (and objectively) what is going on? Obviously I hear alot about it in the news but I don't really understand the basis behind it? Any decent explanatory links are welcomed too.

    Thanks (and apologies again for my ignorance )
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    Holy crap there are people like this running Israel?

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-crisis...hitler-1456748

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...t-9600165.html
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    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    The Egyptians had proposed a ceasefire, endorsed by both the UN and the Arab League.

    Seeing as Hamas has rejected both ceasefires, while Israel accepted both of them, I think its clear who we should blame more deaths on. Its already a double war crime to shoot rockets at Israeli civilians, while hiding behind Palestinian civilians.
    Ah, the rewriting of events - typical response. Hamas never rejected a ceasefire. Sami Abu Zuhri has already stated that they weren't asked to stop. What has essentially happened is that Israel and Egypt had negotiated some sort of deal without informing Hamas. We then blame Hamas for rejecting a ceasefire that wasn't offered to them. Israel then uses this as a pretext to continue the killing. A bit too predictable. Let me also remind you that Hamas abided by the previous ceasefire terms, but it was Israel who repeatedly violated the terms set. All ceasefire means, is that Hamas stops and Israel will continue to attack - look at how the recent conflict was initiated, for example.
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    screw israel and its supporters. you guys have to be in ****ing denial and inhuman to justify those war crimes by saying they are just "defending themselves" Oh also, screw the USA.disgusting piece of trash supporting israel in all its war crimes.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Israel's fundamental mission is to destroy Hamas, and it doesn't take a genius to realise that this requires much more force than Hamas themselves are using in order to provoke this response.

    It also doesn't take a genius to see that if Hamas stopped spending their money on pointlessly lobbing rockets into Israel, and instead spent it on the people they purport to represent, the lives of both Palestinians and Israelis would be much improved.
    I forgot that everything was completely fine and dandy before Hamas came along........
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    Quentin Sommerville @sommervillebbc · 15m
    In BBC inteview, @PresidentPeres says Israel is "really sorry" for deaths of 4 boys killed on Gaza beach. "It was an accident", he said.

    disgusting and unbelievable.kill innocent and say sorry.
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    (Original post by desigirl01)
    screw israel and its supporters. you guys have to be in ****ing denial and inhuman to justify those war crimes by saying they are just "defending themselves" Oh also, screw the USA.disgusting piece of trash supporting israel in all its war crimes.
    Hamas terrorists entering a tunnel destined for a Kibbutz in Israel to slaughter the residents.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f12_1405582637



    These men who the IDF dealt with, will be added to the "civilian casualties" figures by the Hamas health ministry no doubt.
 
 
 
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