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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    What side are people generally on?

    All we hear over in the UK is most Russian's blindly follow Russian media's version of events, although they are starting to feel overwhelmed by it.
    Generally people in Russia, Belarus and Eastern Ukraine support Russian (but not "pro-russian rebels") side. Not really because of Russian media, but because of strong relations between our nations. Here in Belarus 90% speak Russian (even most of Belarussians speak it), almost the same situation in Eastern Ukraine.

    What about this tragic plane crash event, most of my friends agree that it's very likely, that the plane was shot down by rebels. By accident ofc, not on purpose or by Russian order. It seems really likely to me either.
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    Obviously America is involved somehow, that is pretty much a given for any even like this, these days.
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    (Original post by Lumens)
    Generally people in Russia, Belarus and Eastern Ukraine support Russian (but not "pro-russian rebels") side. Not really because of Russian media, but because of strong relations between our nations. Here in Belarus 90% speak Russian (even most of Belarussians speak it), almost the same situation in Eastern Ukraine.

    What about this tragic plane crash event, most of my friends agree that it's very likely, that the plane was shot down by rebels. By accident ofc, not on purpose or by Russian order. It seems really likely to me either.
    Tbh not even anyone here thinks it was done on purpose.... but thinks it's what will happen when you arm such groups.

    Do people in your area believe the Russians are arming the rebels? Also what do they think about Ukraine response to Pro-Russian Rebels?

    Also imagine if such a thing happened in russia? Do people think russia would act in a more restrained manner or worse?
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    And I want to add that I got about the same feelings reading Russian and UK media sources. Both sides shouldn't really be trusted. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
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    (Original post by Lumens)
    And I want to add that I got about the same feelings reading Russian and UK media sources. Both sides shouldn't really be trusted. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
    The difference with western media and russian media is even if the western media believes something it will still report what the russian's believe.

    Also massive claims with contradictory evidence does seem to get completely grilled over here.

    From what I've seen from russian media, and correct me if I'm wrong, is completely their side of the story concerning events in ukraine.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Depends if he's stapped into something heavy etc.

    It actually does rely on weight, gravity and Buoyancy.
    What on earth are you talking about. It doesn't depend on weight and bouyancy, only on gravity, which is pretty constant on earth. Have you ever opened a GCSE physics textbook?
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    (Original post by Crazy92)
    What on earth are you talking about. It doesn't depend on weight and bouyancy, only on gravity, which is pretty constant on earth. Have you ever opened a GCSE physics textbook?
    "The terminal velocity of a falling object is the velocity of the object when the sum of the drag force (Fd) and buoyancy equals the downward force of gravity (FG) acting on the object."
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Do people in your area believe the Russians are arming the rebels?
    Not really. I don't think so either because of some facts:
    - it's well known that the rebels got control over many armories, so they might have lots of weapon, bulletproof vests and stuff;
    - some military units went to the rebels side;
    - rebels few times complained that Russia don't want to support them and asked for the support;
    - the rebels managed to get even a countermissile system and some tanks in fights with Ukrainian army;

    So they apparently have some good equipment already and there is no any proof that Russia is arming them.

    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Also what do they think about Ukraine response to Pro-Russian Rebels?
    People here just can't believe that this is actually happening. We all (Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians) like brothers, so the very idea of fighting vs each other seems ludicrous, but sadly became true.

    Personally I think that they got no other choice. It's their territory and Poroshenko is legitimate president (I believe), so they're trying to get control over it.

    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Also imagine if such a thing happened in russia? Do people think russia would act in a more restrained manner or worse?
    Actually it is happening in Russia. Read about Ingushetia.

    Sorry for my writing speed and for the mistakes I make btw, I don't have much practice in English.
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    (Original post by Crazy92)
    What on earth are you talking about. It doesn't depend on weight and bouyancy, only on gravity, which is pretty constant on earth. Have you ever opened a GCSE physics textbook?
    The terminal velocity of a falling object is the velocity of the object when the sum of the drag force (Fd) and buoyancy equals the downward force of gravity (FG) acting on the object.

    Terminal velocity is pretty much the maximum speed an object has, it's why skydivers can achieve an increased speed in terminal velocity by making themselves more streamlined on decent.
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    What I find weird about this is if Putin was in some way involved, why would he immediately phone Obama to talk to him about it? Why were they even talking on the phone in the first place? I thought these two men were at loggerheads.



    My best guess is that pro-Russians did it, but Putin himself was not directly responsible.
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    (Original post by Lumens)
    Not really. I don't think so either because of some facts:
    - it's well known that the rebels got control over many armories, so they might have lots of weapon, bulletproof vests and stuff;
    - some military units went to the rebels side;
    - rebels few times complained that Russia don't want to support them and asked for the support;
    - the rebels managed to get even a countermissile system and some tanks in fights with Ukrainian army;

    So they apparently have some good equipment already and there is no any proof that Russia is arming them.
    Over here the tanks they have, have been suggested to have come from russia, firstly by satellite footage and secondly from video footage of them crossing the Ukraine/Russian Border.


    (Original post by Lumens)
    People here just can't believe that this is actually happening. We all (Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians) like brothers, so the very idea of fighting vs each other seems ludicrous, but sadly became true.

    Personally I think that they got no other choice. It's their territory and Poroshenko is legitimate president (I believe), so they're trying to get control over it.
    That's actually refreshing, most media over here suggest that the other side (or whatever) claim Poroshenko is not legitimate... that's propaganda for you :P

    (Original post by Lumens)
    Actually it is happening in Russia. Read about Ingushetia.

    Sorry for my writing speed and for the mistakes I make btw, I don't have much practice in English.
    We honestly don't know anything about that :/ though not surprising really is it?

    What do russians etc think about that particular conflict?
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    (Original post by orange crush)
    What I find weird about this is if Putin was in some way involved, why would he immediately phone Obama to talk to him about it? Why were they even talking on the phone in the first place? I thought these two men were at loggerheads.



    My best guess is that pro-Russians did it, but Putin himself was not directly responsible.
    I think that's the general consensus.

    It's an accident in my opinion, I think the Pro-Russian separatist's thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian plane and now they and the Russian's are forced into PR damage control.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    I think that's the general consensus.

    It's an accident in my opinion, I think the Pro-Russian separatist's thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian plane and now they and the Russian's are forced into PR damage control.

    That sounds about right. I don't think they'd just shoot down a passenger liner for no reason (unless it was just some rogue looking to **** **** up)
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    (Original post by orange crush)
    That sounds about right. I don't think they'd just shoot down a passenger liner for no reason (unless it was just some rogue looking to **** **** up)
    Even then even it was a rogue.... the benefits of shooting down that plane when compared with the negatives... even if they tried to pin it on the other side, are so low that no-one in their right mind on either side would attempt to do so.
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    (Original post by PassingAlways)
    :laugh: the USA play a long game? no chance.

    it's more about the former than the latter tbh, a weaker Russia gives the USA more power in the region which negates the rise of China.
    In this case China is unlikely to be a motivator because of the differing circumstances of China and Russia.

    Both China and Russia desire power and wealth but China has an exceptional future ahead of it for at least the next two decades, as its economy grows larger they will strengthen their military, exert more cultural influence and have a greater influence in global events and negotiations. China is for the most part happy with the status quo and is playing the long game.

    Russia on the other hand has a number of problems and a different attitude. Firstly, its leaders were born at a time when Russia was a superpower and an enemy of the west. Secondly, Russia is well aware that it lacks the population or economic management to be a very wealthy country so is at a disadvantage, for this reason the short term power gain is the goal and why they present a greater danger.

    (Original post by Abstraction)
    I understand that her theory is quite wild, but there might actually be something to it. Note that I'm merely considering ideas here, not subscribing to anything.

    Russia have recently been making moves towards a closer economic and political integration with China, and Asia in general. A new rival to the World Bank has also been established by the BRICS countries. I very much doubt that the US like this. If you take a look through actual US history, you see that they invariably despise any attempts on behalf of foreign nations to be independent. The US dollar's value is pretty much sustained by being the most traded currency for international transactions, mainly in the area of petroleum trading. If too many important countries start making moves to trade with each other economically, there is a good possibility that eventually they will wean themselves off the dollar, causing a catastrophic loss in its value and trashing the US economy. Russia have already been increasingly using the Remnimbi for international trade with China, and China's currency will probably continue to grow in popularity in the future.

    The US, directly or indirectly, bringing down a plane and blaming Russian separatists will inevitably cause all fingers globally to point at Russia for such a heinous crime. We've been fed the narrative that Putin has been supplying the separatists with weaponry for months, but no one's really heard Putin out. Putin wasn't afraid of taking Crimea right under the world's nose, so why should he consistently be so reluctant to admit he was supplying weapons to Russian separatists? Is the latter so much worse than the former? There seems to be a strange kind of inconsistency here in my view, but the Western media doesn't even give us a case for the opposite side of the story. Anyway, greatly isolating Russia like this may halt trade negotiations in the East, and additional sanctions or boycotts by countries around the globe might greatly affect Russian trade. It's not a bad way of greatly delaying this shift away from the dollar.

    Again, this is merely an idea I'm entertaining. I neither believe nor disbelieve it, but to me, something about this extremely tragic event smells.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Your right about the commodity dollar but like many, you overplay it in my opinion. To damage the dollar enough to cause collapse (excluding debt dumping which wong happen from China) you need large economies that import commodities in dollars to change. The tiny deals announced so far are meaningless in this sense. Japan for example is the 4th largest oil importer in the world, you'd need them to do it in Yuan.

    Essentially, we may see small weakening but nothing like collapse.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    Over here the tanks they have, have been suggested to have come from russia, firstly by satellite footage and secondly from video footage of them crossing the Ukraine/Russian Border.
    I've heard of that too, but didn't manage to find a good source to confirm this information. So I stayed with presumption of innocence point of view.

    (Original post by DanB1991)
    That's actually refreshing, most media over here suggest that the other side (or whatever) claim Poroshenko is not legitimate... that's propaganda for you :P
    It's a really difficult question, but I'd say that his legitimacy is out of question: he actually rules the government and forces, he represents the country on the international arena and so on. Many don't believe that he's legal. He just barely won elections and there were plenty of odd accidents at precincts, but other candidates were even worse, so I find his legality possible. The problem is that he's absolutely legitimate in western part of the country but has no legitimacy in eastern part. And that's why the conflict is going. People (eastern ones) don't want to be ruled by a person they don't trust.

    (Original post by DanB1991)
    We honestly don't know anything about that :/ though not surprising really is it?
    Not really surprising. It's a small local conflict and Russia is doing really well there.

    (Original post by DanB1991)
    What do russians etc think about that particular conflict?
    Most of Russians can't find any words to describe what's happening there. Maybe "madness" would suit here. Many blame USA ofc, but not without reason, I believe.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    The terminal velocity of a falling object is the velocity of the object when the sum of the drag force (Fd) and buoyancy equals the downward force of gravity (FG) acting on the object.

    Terminal velocity is pretty much the maximum speed an object has, it's why skydivers can achieve an increased speed in terminal velocity by making themselves more streamlined on decent.
    Which is exactly what I said, thanks for proving me right.

    1. Drag has nothing to do with weight.
    2. The "bouyancy" of metal relative to air is negligible and therefore not even a consideration.
    3. As stated in the quote you made regarding terminal velocity, the only force that matters (out of weight, bouyancy and gravity) is the acceleration due to gravity.

    I would love to hear how you think the weight impacts the terminal velocity.
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    Just watching the LiveLeak stuff and the passports being held up to the cameras so people on TV can see the names and pictures of the people is too ****ing much!
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    I feel that the plane crash is being overshadowed now.

    What a way to grab attention though, hurting an already hurt airline
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    (Original post by Lumens)
    Generally people in Russia, Belarus and Eastern Ukraine support Russian (but not "pro-russian rebels") side. Not really because of Russian media, but because of strong relations between our nations. Here in Belarus 90% speak Russian (even most of Belarussians speak it), almost the same situation in Eastern Ukraine.

    What about this tragic plane crash event, most of my friends agree that it's very likely, that the plane was shot down by rebels. By accident ofc, not on purpose or by Russian order. It seems really likely to me either.

    You can thank the USSR for that, a union Putin fully supports and quite possibly wants back.

    Rationally speaking, it's quite easy for him to gain support from these countries, as you've noted because a lot of the people living there speak Russian.
 
 
 
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