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Ex-Muslim, now Atheist - ASK ME ANYTHING! Watch

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    (Original post by Hariex)
    Bearing in mind that my proving of the teapot is hypothetical, on what basis would you disregard the evidence that I provided?
    Well solar telescopes could easily debunk your flying teapot claim.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    No, it doesn't prove that it is incorrect.

    However, the burden of proof is on you. Until you can prove that Allah is the one true God, I have no reason to believe you.

    Most atheists demonstrate this point by using Russell's Teapot. Whilst someone might claim that there is a celestial teapot orbiting the earth, we have no reason to believe them unless they provide evidence.
    " However, the burden of proof is on you. Until you can prove that Allah is the one true God, I have no reason to believe you. "

    Do I care whether you believe me???

    "Whilst someone might claim that there is a celestial teapot orbiting the earth, we have no reason to believe them unless they provide evidence."

    But this can be easily disproved. God cannot. .
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    (Original post by ridwan12)
    Do I care whether you believe me???
    I can not say whether you do care or not, but only that you should care.

    If you saw a person in the middle of the road about to be crushed by a sixteen-wheel lorry, you would do everything within your power to save them.

    Now, hell as depicted in the Qur'an is explicit, graphic and eternal. Would you wish that fate upon anybody in the human race? Naturally, as you would save somebody from the oncoming bus, you should be doing everything in your power to "save" people.

    But this can be easily disproved. God cannot. .
    I find it very hard to disprove the existence of God when no argument has been made for it.
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    (Original post by Straw-man666)
    You are silly for rejecting the truth and it seems that you are proud of it. Mashallah brother, well done, well done.

    May allah guide you to the correct path.

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    Did you have a question or did you just come here to preach?
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    I can not say whether you do care or not, but only that you should care.

    If you saw a person in the middle of the road about to be crushed by a sixteen-wheel lorry, you would do everything within your power to save them.

    Now, hell as depicted in the Qur'an is explicit, graphic and eternal. Would you wish that fate upon anybody in the human race? Naturally, as you would save somebody from the oncoming bus, you should be doing everything in your power to "save" people.



    I find it very hard to disprove the existence of God when no argument has been made for it.
    No I would not care as everybody has free-will. They can commit sin or good deeds if they wish.

    So let's leave it at that then.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    Nay, the burden of proof is on you.

    Remember that Islam is essentially a positive statement. This means that it posits several declarations - "God exists" is a positive statement, whereas "God does not exist" is a negative statement.

    Thus, it is these positive statements that must be proved. Do not consider negative statements as something that must be proved, for in some cases they are the default position in the absence of evidence. To reiterate: I do not believe that Allah is the one true God because I have no evidence to believe so.

    Similarly, you do not believe that there is a three-legged clown on Jupiter playing bagpipes. Why? Because you have no reason to assume so.

    So, if you provide me evidence for why you believe that Allah is the one true God, I will examine it and give my opinion.
    Let us begin with the assumption that Islam is a scientific theory ( and so can be proven).
    Your words were
    "Do not consider negative statements as something that must be proved, for in some cases they are the default position in the absence of evidence. To reiterate: I do not believe that Allah is the one true God because I have no evidence to believe so. "

    Hence we must now assume that Islam is not falsifiable. ( or else Islam can be disproved, and I ask you to do so)

    But according to Karl Popper's principle of falsifiability "a theory is falsifiable, it is scientific, and if not, then it is unscientific.".

    Hence we arrive at the conclusion that Islam is not a science, and so cannot be treated as such.

    I cannot make it any clearer to you that religion cannot be subjected to the laws of Science, and the only mathematical truth there is about Islam is that there is a 50% chance of it be true when considered against the total number of possibilities of its existence.

    And a {1/ number of beliefs that exist( including atheism) }chance of Islam being true compared to all other religions.

    Stop approaching Islam with science and approach it with faith. If you choose not to believe in Allah, and if Allah exists, then you must face the consequences simple as that.


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    (Original post by arrow900)
    Hence we must now assume that Islam is not falsifiable. ( or else Islam can be disproved, and I ask you to do so)

    But according to Karl Popper's principle of falsifiability "a theory is falsifiable, it is scientific, and if not, then it is unscientific.".
    The problem with unfalsifiability is that it can not provide truth. For example, if Christianity refused to offer arguments for the existence of God, it would still consider itself to be true.

    We have no way of working out which religion is true because neither have any sort of defense. However, they can't both be true.

    With unsubstantiated arguments, the three-legged clown playing bagpipes on Pluto is just as valid as Allah being the one true God.

    I cannot make it any clearer to you that religion cannot be subjected to the laws of Science, and the only mathematical truth there is about Islam is that there is a 50% chance of it be true when considered against the total number of possibilities of its existence.
    Do you think that it is just as likely that there is a three-legged clown playing bagpipes on Pluto than not?

    And a {1/ number of beliefs that exist( including atheism) }chance of Islam being true compared to all other religions.
    Do you believe that Pastafarianism is just a likely as Islam?

    Stop approaching Islam with science and approach it with faith. If you choose not to believe in Allah, and if Allah exists, then you must face the consequences simple as that.
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    I will accept Allah's existence as soon as you provide evidence.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    The problem with unfalsifiability is that it can not provide truth. For example, if Christianity refused to offer arguments for the existence of God, it would still consider itself to be true.

    We have no way of working out which religion is true because neither have any sort of defense. However, they can't both be true.

    With unsubstantiated arguments, the three-legged clown playing bagpipes on Pluto is just as valid as Allah being the one true God.



    Do you think that it is just as likely that there is a three-legged clown playing bagpipes on Pluto than not?



    Do you believe that Pastafarianism is just a likely as Islam?



    I will accept Allah's existence as soon as you provide evidence.
    And so you once again miss the entire point of religion. This is the last time I will say this. The probability of Islam being true and the probability of atheism being true are equal. This is the only mathematical relationship between the two beliefs.

    Islam is religion and so is founded on faith. If you choose not to believe in Allah, even after reading the Quran, then this is entirely up to you. If Allah does not exist, then well done on living life by your own principles, but if he does , well you got what was coming to you. That is essentially it. Nothing else.

    The proof of Atheism is a sufficient but not necessary condition for the disproof of Islam.



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    (Original post by arrow900)
    And so you once again miss the entire point of religion. This is the last time I will say this. The probability of Islam being true and the probability of atheism being true are equal. This is the only mathematical relationship between the two beliefs.
    I suggest we agree to disagree. I don't think that anything new is coming of this discussion.

    Islam is religion and so is founded on faith. If you choose not to believe in Allah, even after reading the Quran, then this is entirely up to you. If Allah does not exist, then well done on living life by your own principles, but if he does , well you got what was coming to you. That is essentially it. Nothing else.
    But is it truly just to torment somebody for eternity when that being has no evidence for his existence?

    The proof of Atheism is a necessary and sufficient condition for the disproof of Islam.
    If you could just answer the questions below:

    Do you recognise the limits of an unfalsifiable belief?

    Does my argument using the three-legged clown playing bagpipes on Pluto make any sense to you?
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    Fellow ex-muslim here, just wanted to ask what are your reasons for not being agnostic?
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    (Original post by arrow900)
    And so you once again miss the entire point of religion. This is the last time I will say this. The probability of Islam being true and the probability of atheism being true are equal. This is the only mathematical relationship between the two beliefs.

    Islam is religion and so is founded on faith. If you choose not to believe in Allah, even after reading the Quran, then this is entirely up to you. If Allah does not exist, then well done on living life by your own principles, but if he does , well you got what was coming to you. That is essentially it. Nothing else.

    The proof of Atheism is a sufficient but not necessary condition for the disproof of Islam.


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    The probabilities are not equal.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    I suggest we agree to disagree. I don't think that anything new is coming of this discussion.



    But is it truly just to torment somebody for eternity when that being has no evidence for his existence?



    If you could just answer the questions below:

    Do you recognise the limits of an unfalsifiable belief?

    Does my argument using the three-legged clown playing bagpipes on Pluto make any sense to you?
    No I don't , at all understand what you mean by the "limits" of a belief.

    Yes I understand that you are attempting to equate the probability of what is quite close to an impossible event, due to certain technicalities ( i.e a clown is human and humans cannot live on Pluto), with the probability of God existing. But the probability that God exists = 50%.
    The possibility that a human lives on Pluto < 50% as experiments have been carried out on Organs under certain conditions, and statistically it is <50% likely that human organs can function under the conditions of Pluto.

    Goodbye. I hate arguments about God. You either believe or don't believe.
    Nothing more. Nothing less. You only have yourself to blame.


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    (Original post by james22)
    The probabilities are not equal.
    Why not?

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    (Original post by brownsugar-xx)
    Fellow ex-muslim here, just wanted to ask what are your reasons for not being agnostic?
    funny how you call yourself an "ex-Muslim" when you're the guy/girl who struggled to grasp the basic concept of God. You've clearly never believed in Allah or Prophet Muhammad as his final messenger, never prayed 5 times a day and never understood the Qur'an properly, probably never even fasted in your life too. So no you were never a Muslim as you so claim you were, so please just stop with your bullcrap.
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    (Original post by mightyfrog2_10)
    funny how you call yourself an "ex-Muslim" when you're the guy/girl who struggled to grasp the basic concepts of God. You've clearly never believed in Allah or Prophet Muhammad as his final messenger, never prayed 5 times a day and never understood the Qur'an properly, probably never even fasted in your life too. So no you were never a Muslim as you so claim you were, so please just stop with your bullcrap.
    And here we see the average Muslim, so compassionate and loving, no? :laugh:
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    (Original post by brownsugar-xx)
    And here we see the average Muslim, so compassionate and loving, no? :laugh:
    and here we see a liar.
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    (Original post by mightyfrog2_10)
    and here we see a liar.
    because me being an ex-muslim is a lie? You really aren't making yourself look good here :laugh:
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    (Original post by arrow900)
    Why not?

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    Why should they be? Is there a 50/50 chance of there being a purple hippo on mars?

    The probability is certainly not 50% either, as there are 10,000 Gods all of which are equally likely.
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    (Original post by brownsugar-xx)
    because me being an ex-muslim is a lie? You really aren't making yourself look good here :laugh:
    claiming you were a Muslim when you clearly weren't is a lie.
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    (Original post by mightyfrog2_10)
    claiming you were a Muslim when you clearly weren't is a lie.
    Oh but i was. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? :confused:

    So much for the atheists being the hostile ones on here, eh?
 
 
 
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