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    (Original post by Blazar)
    ...

    Are you one of those people who thinks that racism also happens to white people? Because, get this: ​it doesn't. White people may be the victim of occasionally racially-motivated incidents, but a black person will face much more day-to-day, systematic racism than a white person ever will. Black people aren't in a system where they can systematically oppress all other racial groups, whereas white people are. So if a black person says, "I hate white people", that's not them being racist. It's them expressing their frustration at a group over whom they currently have absolutely no power. It's exactly the same with women facing sexism from men. Sexism isn't a single, isolated incident. Sexism is a combination of several stereotypes, expectations and dehumanising cultural factors that women face again and again, day after day. Men don't experience it, simple as that.
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    As an ethnic minority, I could not disagree with this more. Frankly I find it quite sickening that you insinuate that a person of my colour cannot be racist - it's actually demeaning.

    For all black/minorities/women on this forum who agree with the above, I seriously suggest you stop portraying yourself as a victim of this supposed white male conspiracy that's out to oppress your life for your own sake. Really, you'll be much happier when you snap out of it.
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    Page 3 only exists because people are willing to purchase the content. By banning page 3 you aren't removing people's want of said content, only making them get it from other sources. Tackle the problem please, not the symptoms.
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    As an ethnic minority, I could not disagree with this more. Frankly I find it quite sickening that you insinuate that a person of my colour cannot be racist - it's actually demeaning.

    For all black/minorities/women on this forum who agree with the above, I seriously suggest you stop portraying yourself as a victim of this supposed white male conspiracy that's out to oppress your life for your own sake. Really, you'll be much happier when you snap out of it.
    Half my family is Asian, so perhaps you should stop making assumptions about me. People of any skin colour can hold prejudiced views, of course they can. I've seen it myself, in my own family. What I'm saying is that in a Western society dominated by white people, white people don't experience racism in nearly the same way as, say, someone who happens to be black.
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    (Original post by Blazar)
    x
    You're just as judgemental and vile as the supposed 'oppressors' you are trying to combat.

    EVERYONE faces discrimination. It isn't some competition - 'I'm more discriminated than you are'. Seriously, grow up.

    As a society we need to try and deal with everybody's grievances. This includes those who are considered the 'majority'. These people are discriminated against too. How come a man can rape but a woman can't? How come men hardly ever get custody? How come men get battered for wanting a woman to be slim, but it's perfectly fine for women to want a man 6ft+?

    It's disgusting how some men treat some women in society. Agreed. It's awful that so many stereotypes exist against women. Agreed. However, similar problems exist for every group in society. We can't just fight for the rights of one, and ignore the problems of the others. That's just as discriminatory as the idiots we're trying to fight.

    Men/whites are hated too. Women/racial minorities do not have the right to abuse the former because of something their ancestors did to your ancestors. Treat everyone EQUALLY.
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    (Original post by Blazar)
    Half my family is Asian, so perhaps you should stop making assumptions about me. People of any skin colour can hold prejudiced views, of course they can. I've seen it myself, in my own family. What I'm saying is that in a Western society dominated by white people, white people don't experience racism in nearly the same way as, say, someone who happens to be black.
    I didn't make any assumptions about you. I still find what you said sickening regardless of your ethnic background, just as I find it sickening when Diane Abbott makes comments very much similar to yours.

    You categorically stated that white people cannot suffer racism and black people cannot be perpetrators of racism. I completely disagree with this.

    The problem is really couched in this statement in your post: "It's them expressing their frustration at a group over whom they currently have absolutely no power." You seem to genuinely believe that the fact that white males are (for example) overrepresented in government indicates that white males as a group have oppressive power over non-whites and non-males. But this is a total fallacy - what it actually means is that of the individuals who are in government, most are white males. This doesn't say anything at all about the vast number of white males who aren't in government, or CEOs, or whatever other metric you like to use to prop up the idea of white male oppression. It certainly doesn't imply that non-whites and non-males are beleaguered oppressed peoples.

    Even more fundamentally, why do black people have to consider themselves 'of a group' versus white people who form another 'group'? I don't think of myself as defined by my ethnicity or my genitalia. There's a lot more to define a person and whatever 'group' you want to associate yourself with than characteristics you were born with.

    Frankly your argument, if followed through to its logical conclusion, would also conclude Chinese people are oppressing everyone else at universities (since they are overrepresented w.r.t. their population there), or that black people are oppressing everyone else in the NBA.
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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    You're just as judgemental and vile as the supposed 'oppressors' you are trying to combat.

    EVERYONE faces discrimination. It isn't some competition - 'I'm more discriminated than you are'. Seriously, grow up.

    As a society we need to try and deal with everybody's grievances. This includes those who are considered the 'majority'. These people are discriminated against too. How come a man can rape but a woman can't? How come men hardly ever get custody? How come men get battered for wanting a woman to be slim, but it's perfectly fine for women to want a man 6ft+?

    It's disgusting how some men treat some women in society. Agreed. It's awful that so many stereotypes exist against women. Agreed. However, similar problems exist for every group in society. We can't just fight for the rights of one, and ignore the problems of the others. That's just as discriminatory as the idiots we're trying to fight.

    Men/whites are hated too. Women/racial minorities do not have the right to abuse the former because of something their ancestors did to your ancestors. Treat everyone EQUALLY.
    Okay, let me say it for the 204th time. Feminism is about equality for everyone. I don't know if you read my post about Shia LaBoeuf, who recently claimed that he was raped by a woman, and Emma Roberts, who was arrested for beating up her boyfriend. In both cases, the perpetrator was a woman, which meant that the incidents weren't taken nearly as seriously as they should have been. Feminists are trying to raise awareness of that. Women deserve equal treatment to men, and yes, that does mean equal sentences for breaking the law. It's also appalling that men rarely get custody, as you said. Single mothers are seen as normal, but single fathers are viewed as something of an anomaly. It's all to do with destructive gender stereotypes, which feminism seeks to abolish. Tell me again what part of that is "judgemental and vile"?
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    I genuinely thought OP had got rid of their boobs before opening this thread and realising it was about something else
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    I didn't make any assumptions about you. I still find what you said sickening regardless of your ethnic background, just as I find it sickening when Diane Abbott makes comments very much similar to yours.

    You categorically stated that white people cannot suffer racism and black people cannot be perpetrators of racism. I completely disagree with this.

    The problem is really couched in this statement in your post: "It's them expressing their frustration at a group over whom they currently have absolutely no power." You seem to genuinely believe that the fact that white males are (for example) overrepresented in government indicates that white males as a group have oppressive power over non-whites and non-males. But this is a total fallacy - what it actually means is that of the individuals who are in government, most are white males. This doesn't say anything at all about the vast number of white males who aren't in government, or CEOs, or whatever other metric you like to use to prop up the idea of white male oppression. It certainly doesn't imply that non-whites and non-males are beleaguered oppressed peoples.

    Even more fundamentally, why do black people have to consider themselves 'of a group' versus white people who form another 'group'? I don't think of myself as defined by my ethnicity or my genitalia. There's a lot more to define a person and whatever 'group' you want to associate yourself with than characteristics you were born with.

    Frankly your argument, if followed through to its logical conclusion, would also conclude Chinese people are oppressing everyone else at universities (since they are overrepresented w.r.t. their population there), or that black people are oppressing everyone else in the NBA.
    Firstly I'd like to apologise for offending you. I can see that what I said probably came across wrong. I didn't actually know about Diane Abbott's comments so I looked them up, and I understand why you would find them offensive. I didn't mean to make the implications that she was clearly making, but I realise that by phrasing that part of my argument badly, it looked like that was my intention.

    What I'm trying to say is that racism and sexism are both very real problems. Of course people are defined by more than their race and their gender, and it wasn't my intention to imply otherwise. What I meant to get across is that (certainly in the UK, America, Australia, etc) white people, and men, are over-represented in positions of power and have been for a long time. This means that it's harder for women and ethnic minorities to have a say in matters that affect them. I completely agree that race and/or gender should not define a person, but women, for example, are split into another "group" (as you put it) by people who discriminate against them on the sole basis of their gender - the definition of sexism.

    The part of my comment that you picked out was something that I picked up from a black person writing about their experience of racism. Let's say, hypothetically, there's a planet which has inhabitants of two biologically identical species that have formed a society, except one species has blue skin and the other has green skin. Let's also say that the "blue people" occupy the majority of positions of power in the society and have constantly mistreated the "green people", saying that they're inferior, laughing at their culture, segregating them, even going as far as enslaving and murdering them with no punishment. If a blue alien says "I hate green people" and a green alien says "I hate blue people", do those two statements have the same implications? Are they caused by the same sentiments? Is one just as bad as the other? Of course, the real world is far more complex and nuanced than this, but I hope that analogy clarifies my point.
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    (Original post by Blazar)
    Okay, let me say it for the 204th time. Feminism is about equality for everyone. I don't know if you read my post about Shia LaBoeuf, who recently claimed that he was raped by a woman, and Emma Roberts, who was arrested for beating up her boyfriend. In both cases, the perpetrator was a woman, which meant that the incidents weren't taken nearly as seriously as they should have been. Feminists are trying to raise awareness of that. Women deserve equal treatment to men, and yes, that does mean equal sentences for breaking the law. It's also appalling that men rarely get custody, as you said. Single mothers are seen as normal, but single fathers are viewed as something of an anomaly. It's all to do with destructive gender stereotypes, which feminism seeks to abolish. Tell me again what part of that is "judgemental and vile"?
    I'm not criticising feminism. Feminism does aim to promote equality for both genders. I'm criticising you. You are the one that said white people and men don't face discrimination. It is people like you that turn people against feminism. You claim to be a feminist, but you're not, you're a feminazi - and the reason I don't call myself feminist. I hate being associated with people like you.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    I genuinely thought OP had got rid of their boobs before opening this thread and realising it was about something else
    Wait till the Sun pulls off another PR stunt like this
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    Wait till the Sun pulls off another PR stunt like this
    Hahahaha yeah can't wait for that!
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    (Original post by Obiejess)
    I'm not criticising feminism. Feminism does aim to promote equality for both genders. I'm criticising you. You are the one that said white people and men don't face discrimination. It is people like you that turn people against feminism. You claim to be a feminist, but you're not, you're a feminazi - and the reason I don't call myself feminist. I hate being associated with people like you.
    I'm not a "feminazi", okay? I'm not one of those awful people who think that transgender women aren't really women. I think you misunderstand what I said. I said that men and white people don't face sexism and racism respectively to the same extent that others do. I have pointed out on many occasions that they certainly can face discrimination, or did you not read the part about Shia LaBoeuf not being taken seriously as a rape victim? I apologise if what I said came across in the wrong way, but I refuse to be compared to a hideous political group that committed mass genocide.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Have you worked in marketing? A very laddish culture prevails throughout the sector. It resulted in my boyfriend leaving for a job as different as you could possibly get...
    I do....and it was perhaps his firm's culture....you can't make a broad label to all marketing firms...especially when my department has largely women in it, and i'm one of few male managers in the entire firm....
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    And I don't agree with banningt it, but then OP, get some confidence or view porn online. You can see MORE than just boobs, and you don't have to pay extra...
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    I must be one of the only girls who didn't mind page 3...

    You can see similar images on 14 year old girls profiles these days - that is where the objectification lies. They post photos of themselves in underwear to get hundreds of likes from boys they don't know.
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    (Original post by Blazar)
    Firstly I'd like to apologise for offending you. I can see that what I said probably came across wrong. I didn't actually know about Diane Abbott's comments so I looked them up, and I understand why you would find them offensive. I didn't mean to make the implications that she was clearly making, but I realise that by phrasing that part of my argument badly, it looked like that was my intention.

    What I'm trying to say is that racism and sexism are both very real problems. Of course people are defined by more than their race and their gender, and it wasn't my intention to imply otherwise. What I meant to get across is that (certainly in the UK, America, Australia, etc) white people, and men, are over-represented in positions of power and have been for a long time. This means that it's harder for women and ethnic minorities to have a say in matters that affect them. I completely agree that race and/or gender should not define a person, but women, for example, are split into another "group" (as you put it) by people who discriminate against them on the sole basis of their gender - the definition of sexism.

    The part of my comment that you picked out was something that I picked up from a black person writing about their experience of racism. Let's say, hypothetically, there's a planet which has inhabitants of two biologically identical species that have formed a society, except one species has blue skin and the other has green skin. Let's also say that the "blue people" occupy the majority of positions of power in the society and have constantly mistreated the "green people", saying that they're inferior, laughing at their culture, segregating them, even going as far as enslaving and murdering them with no punishment. If a blue alien says "I hate green people" and a green alien says "I hate blue people", do those two statements have the same implications? Are they caused by the same sentiments? Is one just as bad as the other? Of course, the real world is far more complex and nuanced than this, but I hope that analogy clarifies my point.
    I thank you for your apology. It is extremely rare to get that on the internet, and I accept it with a certain level of humility knowing that I probably err on the side of brashness too often myself.

    That said, I think I just have a fundamental disagreement with you - maybe exemplified by the bit bolded above. I don't really see white people as being any less capable of representing me than someone of my ethnicity. I would be very unlikely to vote for an ethnic male who espoused political or economic views I disagree with, but I am very happy to vote for a white female politician who shares my ideals.

    This is the dichotomy you are implying that I fervently oppose. Not all black people, all minorities, or all women have monolithic political views that can only somehow be represented by someone who looks and dangles like them.

    As such, I really don't care if it's white males, white females, black transgenders, whatever, that are overrepresented in government, as long as the policies they enact are not self-serving. And on the whole, they really aren't - discrimination due to race and sex is pretty stringently guarded against in the UK, and there is simply no secret (or overt) conspiracy to keep white people in a position of supremacy over minorities.

    It is with all that in mind that I address your final point. Yes, black people had every reason to hate white people at the height of the slave trade - and indeed, in many parts of the USA, until even 60-odd years ago. However, times change. Blue people may do better on average at the moment but there is no overt, concerted oppression any longer that green people face. As for historical transgressions, those who did so in the past are long dead - it makes absolutely no sense to hate their descendants for actions their ancestors undertook. It is in that context that I say that a black person in the UK saying 'I hate white people' is absolutely as much a piece of scum as a white person saying the same about black people.
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    (Original post by hamix.forllz)
    I do....and it was perhaps his firm's culture....you can't make a broad label to all marketing firms...especially when my department has largely women in it, and i'm one of few male managers in the entire firm....
    Perhapse it was specifically in Leeds but it seemed to prevail in other firms as well
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Perhapse it was specifically in Leeds but it seemed to prevail in other firms as well
    You're as bad as UKIP blaming ethnic minorities for the economic difficulties facing this country. Stop trying to blame every social ill as you see it on white men.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    You're as bad as UKIP blaming ethnic minorities for the economic difficulties facing this country. Stop trying to blame every social ill as you see it on white men.
    All I did was point out a lad culture that my partner experienced in a marketing firm, no need to get tour knivckers in a twist
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    Feminism needs to put more focus on the choice of the individual to act outside of gender roles rather than being just another form of socialism and statism.
 
 
 
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