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I'm Muslim but I've realised I'm definitely bisexual... watch

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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    An All Loving God sounds nice but it is illogical, if you think about it - God wouldn't punish the likes of Hitler or Stalin then, so where would be the justice? Love has to be conditional in order to exercise justice and thus punish those who do wrong; God could be All Loving but then He would have to exercise justice against those He loved... Either way, it's negligable whether God is All Loving because He is the Most Beneficent.
    Haram, dbi, astughfirallah.

    umad?
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    (Original post by hajer_09)
    People don't realise that God is merciful yet He has the ability to punish whom He wills.
    Is it not true then that god, in each instance, can choose to exercise mercy, or​, to exercise his ability to punish? I propose that it stands to reason that one cannot simultaneously exercise mercy and punish someone.

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Well, no, not really; if their [sic] was proof that God destroyed a city for rampant homosexuality, then there would be absolute proof for God and everyone would be theists.
    You appear to at first dispute that your argument was circular, but later acknowledge it and seek to justify it.

    A circular argument is a logically flawed argument. A logically flawed argument is a logically flawed argument per se.

    Your original question of homosexuality being haraam in Islam has been answered, so I don't get why you are asking that.
    I think you're getting confused; I never asked about the status of homosexuality in any cult.
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    Did you get that from NAK?
    I don't remember getting that from anyone in particular but it's just something that I have picked up and read about I'm sure NAK does have a video on it though :holmes:
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Do you have a problem with this country punishing those who break the law? Your logic is flawed...
    I'd have a problem with them torturing someone.

    Torture and punishment is different.
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    I'd have a problem with them torturing someone.

    Torture and punishment is different.
    Surely it's just a question of degree.

    Thus where you draw the line between what constitutes an acceptable punishment in the circumstances (such as a fine for common assault) and what does not (e.g. death by lethal injection for adultery) is an inherently arbitrary decision requiring a subjective value judgement.

    Not to say that no lie should be drawn; just that claiming that torture and punishment are intrinsically separate is disingenuous (torture merely being one mode of punishment, amongst many others).
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    (Original post by Law-Hopeful)
    Is it not true then that god, in each instance, can choose to exercise mercy, or​, to exercise his ability to punish? I propose that it stands to reason that one cannot simultaneously exercise mercy and punish someone.


    You appear to at first dispute that your argument was circular, but later acknowledge it and seek to justify it.

    A circular argument is a logically flawed argument. A logically flawed argument is a logically flawed argument per se.


    I think you're getting confused; I never asked about the status of homosexuality in any cult.
    I misread your post, I was thinking that you were disputing whether Islam considered homosexuality a sin rather than the historicity of certain claims.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Do you have a problem with this country punishing those who break the law? Your logic is flawed...
    No not for the most part, because this countries laws (in theory) were set by democratically elected representatives of the people it applied to. In short, society chose the rules it applies to itself. It is not any one persons opinion, but more a mutually beneficial agreement made by everyone it applies to. It is in no way comparable to your god.

    Edit: I do have a problem with the country punishing people who break it's laws when the laws were unjust due to the era they where made in. For example recreational Cannabis use should not be illegal and I do have a problem with people being punished for that. Luckily, as public opinion changes the laws do too, to reflect this. It's why we don't imprison homosexuals anymore and why women are allowed to vote

    Allah is more comparable to the dictatorship in North Korea, where everyone must bow to the will of their supreme and revered leader. The laws are his formed of his personal opinions and are not mutually agreed by the people they effect. They are forced upon them whether they benefit society or not. In this scenario I do indeed have a problem with the country punishing people who break the laws, as the laws are unjust and tyrannical.
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    (Original post by Law-Hopeful)
    Surely it's just a question of degree.

    Thus where you draw the line between what constitutes an acceptable punishment in the circumstances (such as a fine for common assault) and what does not (e.g. death by lethal injection for adultery) is an inherently arbitrary decision requiring a subjective value judgement.

    Not to say that no lie should be drawn; just that claiming that torture and punishment are intrinsically separate is disingenuous (torture merely being one mode of punishment, amongst many others).
    I don't agree with torture as a form of punishment.
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    I don't agree with torture as a form of punishment.
    Good for you.

    Unless you can justify that then that statement has no value.

    Even if you can justify that (which you can't), your prior statement is still logically flawed.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi. I am a British Muslim guy and I'm not very practising -- like the only time I ever go to mosque is on Eid basically -- but my family is quite conservative and stuff. I know homosexuality is a sin in Islam but...for a long time now--ever since I've been a teenager I've always found guys attractive as well as girls but could never admit it.

    Only since I've come to University away from my family environment -- in a city where no one knows me -- have I finally admitted to myself that I am bi after having a few sexual experiences (basically, the first time i met a guy on gaydar and he invited me to his place and we ended up having oral sex) and though I really enjoyed it I have been feeling full of guilt ever since but also get turned whenever i think about it to the extent that I repeated it a couple of times...once with the same guy and another time with him and his mate...

    Now I feel really guilty and don't know if I should tell anyone, hide it, or just accept i am bi and live my life. But I am also scared of Hell so....!

    Help!
    A lot of religious people have been drawn to this thread by the name of it, and are using their scare mongering tactics to try to control you to be something they want you to be. Not be the person you are.

    You don't need to worry my friend about anything, because nothing you have done is wrong, and nothing that you think is wrong either. I respect your beliefs. They are yours to have. Don't allow these people to bring you down and try to conform to what they think is right. As that's something they truly know nothing about.

    Enjoy your life, and be kind. You don't need to worry about the rest.

    Peace and love
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    (Original post by ILovePancakes)
    I'd have a problem with them torturing someone.

    Torture and punishment is different.
    There is a distinction between punishment and torture, as you know, but what makes you think that the afterlife is torture and not punishment, considering Hell is used to emaciate sin and thus Allah forgives them and admits them to Heaven after, much like a person receives punishment for breeching the law and then gets let out after a time?
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    There is a distinction between punishment and torture
    Surely torture is just one mode, amongst many, of punishment.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    No not for the most part, because this countries laws (in theory) were set by democratically elected representatives of the people it applied to. In short, society chose the rules it applies to itself. It is not any one persons opinion, but more a mutually beneficial agreement made by everyone it applies to. It is in no way comparable to your god.

    Edit: I do have a problem with the country punishing people who break it's laws when the laws were unjust due to the era they where made in. For example recreational Cannabis use should not be illegal and I do have a problem with people being punished for that. Luckily, as public opinion changes the laws do too, to reflect this. It's why we don't imprison homosexuals anymore and why women are allowed to vote

    Allah is more comparable to the dictatorship in North Korea, where everyone must bow to the will of their supreme and revered leader. The laws are his formed of his personal opinions and are not mutually agreed by the people they effect. They are forced upon them whether they benefit society or not. In this scenario I do indeed have a problem with the country punishing people who break the laws, as the laws are unjust and tyrannical.
    How are they unjust or not of benefit to society though?
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    (Original post by Law-Hopeful)
    Surely torture is just one mode, amongst many, of punishment.
    It can be a form of punishment; perhaps in my mind torture seems to imply that the action is unwarranted or has a dark motive behind it.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    How are they unjust or not of benefit to society though?
    Which laws are you referring to?
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    (Original post by Phoebe Buffay)
    This thread really is shocking. The majority of people citing a rather unpleasant book written 1400 years ago? And then talking about hell. You people are mad.
    This.

    That book of absolutes, is screwing up young minds, nations and the wider world. Still being trapped by the fear of Hell factor just shows how moronic and fundamental it really is. Love and compassion is the only enlightened way, not carrot and stick fear incentives and outdated edicts. That book teaches one not to think, whereas what we should be doing with our God given brain is precisely the opposite, i.e. using our brains to think. God does not punish for being bi. The only thing that God is interested in, imo, is in one's capacity to love. Sex is primarily about pleasure not love and if it is not hurting anyone, and not coercive or manipulative, then I don't see why God would be offended by it.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    An All Loving God sounds nice but it is illogical, if you think about it - God wouldn't punish the likes of Hitler or Stalin then, so where would be the justice? Love has to be conditional in order to exercise justice and thus punish those who do wrong; God could be All Loving but then He would have to exercise justice against those He loved... Either way, it's negligable whether God is All Loving because He is the Most Beneficent.
    So why would God condemn people if their actions were part of his plan?
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    The people of Lut for example
    I can't find the exact quote directed to me but it's clear we will never see eye to eye on this topic. I believe that LGBT+ people should have the freedom to express themselves and explore there sexuality as any other would and you believe these acts are sinful. We will never agree with each other as I think the advice your preaching is oppressive.
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    (Original post by em211997)
    So why would God condemn people if their actions were part of his plan?
    I've explained this in my previous posts, refer to them - just because Allah knows what will happen does not mean that he caused it to happen.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    Which laws are you referring to?
    The Quranic laws.
 
 
 
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