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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    ...Are you joking? :erm:

    Clearly the thread title and reason aren't enough, that doesn't show whether the post should/shouldn't have been overturned. Given how much of a big deal you were making over card contestings/overturns too, I'm not sure how you think it would be.
    Thread title? Eh? No I mean the CARD TITLE, as in "Trolling" and then the part that you as moderators put underneath it. The problem is though don't you guys just leave it as blank and as a section leader said before "Keep the reason in your head"?
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    (Original post by geoking)
    Thread title? Eh? No I mean the CARD TITLE, as in "Trolling" and then the part that you as moderators put underneath it. The problem is though don't you guys just leave it as blank and as a section leader said before "Keep the reason in your head"?
    What? No

    Cards are given reasons, obviously. But you'd still need to see the post to look into the stats in any depth.
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    (Original post by geoking)
    Thread title? Eh? No I mean the CARD TITLE, as in "Trolling" and then the part that you as moderators put underneath it. The problem is though don't you guys just leave it as blank and as a section leader said before "Keep the reason in your head"?
    Errrr, please tell me you're trolling now :erm:
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    (Original post by Slowbro93)
    Errrr, please tell me you're trolling now :erm:
    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    What? No

    Cards are given reasons, obviously. But you'd still need to see the post to look into the stats in any depth.
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=193

    Most of the card comments are the default answer and you guys rarely actually change it. Ze whistle has been blown :O
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    (Original post by geoking)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=193

    Most of the card comments are the default answer and you guys rarely actually change it. Ze whistle has been blown :O
    ...That's not the same as leaving a card blank.
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    (Original post by geoking)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=193

    Most of the card comments are the default answer and you guys rarely actually change it. Ze whistle has been blown :O
    Generic comment not the same as no explanation all together.
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    ...That's not the same as leaving a card blank.
    (Original post by Slowbro93)
    Generic comment not the same as no explanation all together.
    You can't then claim the card lacks context because you guys can't be bothered to replace the default message...
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    (Original post by geoking)
    You can't then claim the card lacks context because you guys can't be bothered to replace the default message...
    That's not what anyone has said.

    The card lacks context because you can't see the post.
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    That's not what anyone has said.

    The card lacks context because you can't see the post.
    Why would you need to see the post though? I've had things reported, moderated and altered so no one can see the original post....not even myself who has the card...If the explanation is sufficient, then seeing the post isn't necessary. But wait, you guys rarely replace the placeholder text....This thread is so tragically self-serving. Quick question - do you not care about transparency in the slightest?
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    (Original post by geoking)
    Why would you need to see the post though? I've had things reported, moderated and altered so no one can see the original post....not even myself who has the card...If the explanation is sufficient, then seeing the post isn't necessary. But wait, you guys rarely replace the placeholder text....This thread is so tragically self-serving. Quick question - do you not care about transparency in the slightest?
    Erm. To see if the card was valid? How can you know if a card should have been contested without seeing it? :lol:

    You can see the card yourself, check your community record. And even if you can't the mod team can :yy:

    The placeholder text is replaced when needed, it's not really viable for us to replace it every single time given the scope of the site compared to the size of the mod team.
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    This is getting really painful to read :lolwut:
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    (Original post by geoking)
    You can't then claim the card lacks context because you guys can't be bothered to replace the default message...
    It's not a case of us being bothered or not, the CT want moderators to use the default message because they've agreed on what the comment should be. If you have an issue with this policy then the CT are the people you should be talking to here.

    The CT are aware of this thread, as is one of TSR's data analysts (yes, we do have those), as this thread is spiralling out of control I'm going to lock it until the morning when the CT are back in the office and one of them can make a comment so that sensible discussion can continue. A lot of people are getting frustrated in this discussion and it's at risk of getting out of hand which will be in no one's interests here.
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    Hello geoking and everyone who has commented in this thread.

    Big apologies for the delay, here goes:



    Thanks for sharing your views on mod stats, I've read through everyone's posts and will now share my thoughts. I'm largely responding to some of the points in the OP.

    One of the main problems with the moderation of the forum is the end goal. The goal is to make sure no one is offended. It shouldn't be. The main goal surely should be to make sure it's a healthy environment for interesting discussion.
    I agree with you that one of the main goals of the CT and our team of moderators should be to ensure that we support TSR with the aim to facilitate a healthy environment that encourages interesting and helpful discussion. I'm sure not sure what suggests that are main aim focuses on managing 'offensiveness'. I think the majority of members (including members of the mod team) do actively create and contribute to the main aim that you have suggested.

    Everyone has different levels of tolerance which is why trying to manage "offensiveness" can be problematic. To have a healthy community you need a certain level of moderation to ensure that is retained and as far as possible there is consistency in terms of using the warning system in line with the community guidelines.

    Different forums are used by members for different reasons and moderation standards are derived from the guidelines at times they are applied within the context of that sub-community i.e. H&R strike system. The moderators who moderate that community have "grown up" in that community so appreciate the context and facilitate moderation within those parameters.

    For example, for an average day in January 2015:

    Study Help Posts: 1,442
    Study Help Cards: 3.1
    % of posts given a card: 0.2%

    Religion Posts: 583
    Religion Cards: 16.5
    % of posts given a card: 2.8%

    The forum with the highest card / post ratio: News and current affairs (9.6 cards a day, 309 posts a day) – the second is Religion.

    So what do these stats tell us?

    A) Our community are incredibly "well behaved"
    B) The average user in news and current affairs is more offensive than our members posting in study help
    C) The report function was broken
    D) Our team were being lazy and slacking off and not giving out warnings

    In January overall the percentage of posts given a card was 0.7%! Absolutely tiny - that's only 85 cards in total per day.

    The issue with offense based moderation is that something will always offend someone. It's a flawed idea from the start that will only stifle discussion and debate. Considering the forum is filled with academics, this isn't going to be a good rule to have in place. The system would be a lot better if it was done more akin to a presidential debate.
    Rather than debating whether offensiveness should continue to play a role within our moderation policies we should once and for all review what offensiveness is and how something can be or not be offensive - maybe offensiveness is to much of a wide umbrella term which can include things like insults or aggressiveness or harsh language or discriminatory language or racial hatred etc etc.

    We have spoken about this for a while and I think now is the time to review - especially given Arkasia's popular thread on "Offensiveness".

    If anyone has any other views please could you share here http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3007311

    Keep it on topic, and as long as what is said is relevant, then if someone is offended, well the truth can be tough at times.
    Whose truth? The "truth" according to you or "their" truth? Our own personal truth is based upon our value and belief systems which develop when we are children, largely from our parents and the culture and people around us. Some may not agree but shrug it off others may find it absolutely abhorrent. That is why managing offensiveness is so hard. The community largely policies TSR via the report functionality and the mods manage any action from there. The problem therefore for you is with the community not just with our mods?

    Why we aren't going to share stats on moderation

    We don't agree that "transparency" in terms of sharing warning card stats will engage the average TSR user and retain them as a member. Sharing a stat is not the way to build rapport or community. People use TSR for all kinds of reasons and the majority will have very little idea about moderation and will probably never experience a reminder or a warning.

    Members decide to join online communities for an array of reasons, some stick around some don't, again for numerous reasons - generally if they stick around it's because they enjoy chatting with like-minded members or with members that are sharing a similar life experience currently, have received some some kind of help and decide to give back, or simply just like the diversity that TSR has to offer. Sharing stats would interest a very tiny amount of users and would still never share a fair and true picture of what is going on across TSR.

    This is because every reminder or warning has a context. From personal experience when I have reviewed warnings that have been appealed it is not a quick job, taking into account the forum, the thread, the posts that surround that the post in question. If we don't agree with the appeal we will say why the card isn't going to be overturned.

    If you would like to hold our team to account why only focus on one of the responsibilities - warnings and reminders, appeals and cards overturned. Why aren't you interested in how much time the mods spend online and how their time is divided between chatting with members, supporting members, creating new threads, managing admin i.e. mod queue, report queue, how much rep they have received from members. If you're interested in transparency then surely this would give you a more wholesome picture of the role the team play on TSR.

    So we thank everyone for their feedback on this but sharing stats regarding reminders and warnings is not something we will be doing now or in the future.

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    (Original post by She-Ra)
    So what do these stats tell us?

    A) Our community are incredibly "well behaved"
    B) The average user in news and current affairs is more offensive than our members posting in study help
    C) The report function was broken
    D) Our team were being lazy and slacking off and not giving out warnings
    E) The average mod in news and current affairs is more trigger happy than mods in other forums.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    E) The average mod in news and current affairs is more trigger happy than mods in other forums.
    Or there are just more rule breaking posts there. If it was just people being trigger happy, the CT would have picked up on this.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    E) The average mod in news and current affairs is more trigger happy than mods in other forums.
    F) the average user in news and current affairs is more easily offended/trigger happy on the report button so posts that would be ignored/unreported elsewhere get picked up and carded by the mod team.

    The mods don't go looking for rule breaking posts - they respond to reports from users.
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    G) More trolls flock to News & Current Affairs because it's easier for them to get a reaction.
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    Hey all, the stats are for an average day in January (ie total month / 31); so 85 per day not 85 total
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    (Original post by jenhasdreams)
    Hey all, the stats are for an average day in January (ie total month / 31); so 85 per day not 85 total
    Haha, yeh, good point, totally missed that!
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    E) The average mod in news and current affairs is more trigger happy than mods in other forums.
    Or the community report more posts, or there are more trolls, or a global controversial newstory broke....

    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    Or there are just more rule breaking posts there. If it was just people being trigger happy, the CT would have picked up on this.
    :yes:

    (Original post by PQ)
    F) the average user in news and current affairs is more easily offended/trigger happy on the report button so posts that would be ignored/unreported elsewhere get picked up and carded by the mod team.

    The mods don't go looking for rule breaking posts - they respond to reports from users.
    Exactly, the mods just don't have time to trawl through threads looking for any potential rule-breaking posts. If they are combing through threads it's because a number of members have made the decision to report the posts or a specific member.
 
 
 
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