Don't vote Conservative ... We've came to far as human beings. Watch

Betelgeuse-
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#261
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#261
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/...rons-doorstep/
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Jammy Duel
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#262
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#262
(Original post by Betelgeuse-)
Thats interesting but im not a labour supporter chaps, they are terrible. Just a man who is not willing to be silent whilst the sick and disabled are callously killed off and treated like jews in WW2

Anyway bringing you both together is the article below. It explains how the tories manipulate the employment figures at the expense of the disabled. Seems perfect given the discussion

https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/201...yment-figures/
You do realise that you don't need to do ANY manufacturing to decrease unemployment figures, right. You might be able to exaggerate the impact by manipulation but there is a fall in unemployment either way, or are you suggesting that the working population has increase by over 2m?

Are you the latest in the string of zero-hours Labout social media propagandists who just throw left wing blogs at people rather than hard figures from reliable sources?
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Betelgeuse-
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#263
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#263
http://ilegal.org.uk/thread/7258/ser...=21#post-22615
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Betelgeuse-
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#264
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
You do realise that you don't need to do ANY manufacturing to decrease unemployment figures, right. You might be able to exaggerate the impact by manipulation but there is a fall in unemployment either way, or are you suggesting that the working population has increase by over 2m?

Are you the latest in the string of zero-hours Labout social media propagandists who just throw left wing blogs at people rather than hard figures from reliable sources?
Voting for UKIP pal.. I'm more right than left, just can't support a regime that treats its citizens like the Tories do . Hope this helps
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username878267
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#265
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#265
(Original post by QuantumOverlord)
Naive. Its all very well saying "get money from tax avoidance", but how do you propose to do this? The bureaucracy required to prevent forms of tax avoidance would probably cost more than the tax avoidance itself, and it wouldn't work, its always possible to find loop holes.

Although you could *reduce* tax avoidance considerably by lowering taxes, that would deincentivice it, but no one want's to hear that. Bottom line is, its true.
Ah it would cost too much to stop severe abuse of the system so why stop it? Rubbish.
Nah, people are always looking to avoid taxes.
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sookywooky
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#266
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#266
The damage has been done already. Much of what Labour achieved between 1997 and 2007 has been reversed, and will likely take another decade to correct. If Labour were still in power in 2010 and had continued with their policies, homelessness would be nearly nonexistent in 2015 - as things stand is it is rising again, and this isn't just a result of the recession - the rise only started after the Tories were elected.

Sad state of affairs. Another 5 years of Tory rule will be the end of this country. I really dread to think what it will be like.
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infairverona
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#267
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#267
Still voting Tory, haters gon hate.
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billydisco
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#268
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#268
(Original post by sookywooky)
The damage has been done already. Much of what Labour achieved between 1997 and 2007 has been reversed
What exactly has been reversed? You mean spending on the nation's credit card? Yeah reversing that is generally a good thing mate

A country cannot spend spend spend beyond its means.
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QuantumOverlord
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#269
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#269
(Original post by Bornblue)
Ah it would cost too much to stop severe abuse of the system so why stop it? Rubbish.
Nah, people are always looking to avoid taxes.
Well, yes. If it costs more to stop tax avoidance than is lost through tax avoidance it is pointless to try and stop it. The nice thing about posting on a forum, is that you can take the moral high ground, and give the 'obvious' answer. But in the real world everything has a price, and tax avoidance is not easy to stop. There is a way to substantially reduce tax avoidance though, and that is to reduce taxes. You might not like it, but that really doesn't matter, policies shouldn't be implemented if they don't work no matter how nice and 'just' they sound.
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QuantumOverlord
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#270
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(Original post by sookywooky)
The damage has been done already. Much of what Labour achieved between 1997 and 2007 has been reversed, and will likely take another decade to correct. If Labour were still in power in 2010 and had continued with their policies, homelessness would be nearly nonexistent in 2015 - as things stand is it is rising again, and this isn't just a result of the recession - the rise only started after the Tories were elected.

Sad state of affairs. Another 5 years of Tory rule will be the end of this country. I really dread to think what it will be like.
Lol its like history is being rewritten in front of my eyes. It was labour that destroyed the country, particularly Brown through completely incompetent economic policies. I mean to give one example, the lunatic sold 2/3 of our gold reserves all at once and told everyone when he was going to do it, thereby saturating the market and causing us to loose billions effectively. This is just one countless acts of careless stupidity that Labour has put us through. The tories look bad because Labour lit the fuse, and it blew up in their faces. You do understand that the economy naturally goes through cycles of prosperity and hardship? Well labour screwed up in a time of prosperity when all the effects were hidden, then boom along came the recession in 2009 just in time for the tories and lib dems.

Now, while the tories and the dems could have done better, they haven't done disastrously like labour, but if Labour win then I shudder to think what damage they would do.
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username878267
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#271
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#271
(Original post by QuantumOverlord)
Well, yes. If it costs more to stop tax avoidance than is lost through tax avoidance it is pointless to try and stop it. The nice thing about posting on a forum, is that you can take the moral high ground, and give the 'obvious' answer. But in the real world everything has a price, and tax avoidance is not easy to stop. There is a way to substantially reduce tax avoidance though, and that is to reduce taxes. You might not like it, but that really doesn't matter, policies shouldn't be implemented if they don't work no matter how nice and 'just' they sound.
Can I see your calculations for how it costs more to stop it?
Sounds like a load of rubbish.
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QuantumOverlord
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#272
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#272
(Original post by Betelgeuse-)
Voting for UKIP pal.. I'm more right than left, just can't support a regime that treats its citizens like the Tories do . Hope this helps
And labour would be just as bad if not worse. By all means vote UKIP if you are in a constituency where they could actually win, but please don't split a tory vote and let labour in.
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Jammy Duel
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#273
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#273
(Original post by Betelgeuse-)
Voting for UKIP pal.. I'm more right than left, just can't support a regime that treats its citizens like the Tories do . Hope this helps
Either way, point still stands, how does unemployment not go down when you have more people entering work than there are joining the working population? Excluding that there are other statuses.
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illegaltobepoor
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#274
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#274
(Original post by sookywooky)
The damage has been done already. Much of what Labour achieved between 1997 and 2007 has been reversed, and will likely take another decade to correct. If Labour were still in power in 2010 and had continued with their policies, homelessness would be nearly nonexistent in 2015 - as things stand is it is rising again, and this isn't just a result of the recession - the rise only started after the Tories were elected.

Sad state of affairs. Another 5 years of Tory rule will be the end of this country. I really dread to think what it will be like.
Tories just want to return to the days where a poor man could be shot for tress passing on a farmers fields.
They want businessman who own the means of production to be the ones calling the shots for the country as a whole.
They hate the idea of a society.
If you mess with Tories profit margins your know about it because they just shout anti business 247.

So there is a choice. If you choose to be pro-worker your be labelled as a Socialist. If you choose to be pro-business your labelled as a moderate. This is how the Conservative ideology works.

Tories don't want to help the poor. They just want to release the burden of the poor from the state. The less tax they pay is a plus for their individualism screw you I've got mine ideology.
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Jammy Duel
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#275
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(Original post by sookywooky)
The damage has been done already. Much of what Labour achieved between 1997 and 2007 has been reversed, and will likely take another decade to correct. If Labour were still in power in 2010 and had continued with their policies, homelessness would be nearly nonexistent in 2015 - as things stand is it is rising again, and this isn't just a result of the recession - the rise only started after the Tories were elected.

Sad state of affairs. Another 5 years of Tory rule will be the end of this country. I really dread to think what it will be like.
So, tell us, what exactly is this most of things being reversed?

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billydisco
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#276
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#276
(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
Tories just want to return to the days where a poor man could be shot for tress passing on a farmers fields.
Trespassing is illegal, yes?

(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
They want businessman who own the means of production to be the ones calling the shots for the country as a whole.
Businessmen are a better role model than those ****ing union thugs. What have they ever achieved in life?

(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
They hate the idea of a society.
I didn't realise stealing money from hardworking people to give to layabouts was the definition of "society"?

(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
If you mess with Tories profit margins your know about it because they just shout anti business 247.
Tory profit margins- wtf?

(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
So there is a choice. If you choose to be pro-worker your be labelled as a Socialist. If you choose to be pro-business your labelled as a moderate. This is how the Conservative ideology works.
"Worker"- an employee with low skills and worth as much as the turd in my loo.....

(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
Tories don't want to help the poor.
Why should they? Why shouldn't the poor sort out their own sorry state of affairs?

(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
They just want to release the burden of the poor from the state.
You believe the state should be burdened by the poor? :confused:

(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
The less tax they pay is a plus for their individualism screw you I've got mine ideology.
As opposed to "screw you, I can't be bothered working, share your money with me" ideology?
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zippity.doodah
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#277
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#277
(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
Tories just want to return to the days where a poor man could be shot for tress passing on a farmers fields.
got proof?

They want businessman who own the means of production to be the ones calling the shots for the country as a whole.
got proof?

They hate the idea of a society.
got (modern) proof?

If you mess with Tories profit margins your know about it because they just shout anti business 247.
"tory profit margins"? the tories are politicians, not businesses. if we're saying some politicians own businesses we could talk about the labour politicians who hire people on zero hours contracts...

So there is a choice. If you choose to be pro-worker your be labelled as a Socialist. If you choose to be pro-business your labelled as a moderate. This is how the Conservative ideology works.
I thought you were a socialist though? why do you care if they label you what you are, or what is good, as bad?

Tories don't want to help the poor. They just want to release the burden of the poor from the state. The less tax they pay is a plus for their individualism screw you I've got mine ideology.
and labour want to help the poor? really? so why did they backrupt the poor people's country and give them a massive budget deficit? and by the way, the labour government of tony blair put rich taxes down to 40%, and they were only increased to 50% at the very last minute under gordon brown. it's been either 50% or 45% in this government term.
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MatureStudent36
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#278
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#278
(Original post by Betelgeuse-)
These investigations are conducted “confidentially”, so the UN’s Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD) – which is carrying out the inquiry – has refused to confirm or deny that the UK is being investigated

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/uk-is-first-country-to-face-un-inquiry-into-disability-rights-violations/
So no verifiviable statement from the United nations then? Just a link to the to a fringe website making a spurious claim.

The United nationa is quite transparent. You'll be able to search the UN website to see exactly what they're doing.
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Lauren.12
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#279
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(Original post by QuantumOverlord)
Yes,and the tories could have handled it better, but the recession could have been seriously mitigated had labor not been incompetent to the point of hilarity. Any economic plan always hurts the poor the most, there is simply no system that benefits the poor more than the rich. And before you say; just tax the rich. It is not that simple, taxing the rich works up until a point where incentive reduces to a point that long term revenue and GDP actually decreases as a function of increasing tax. In other words, tax the rich sounds nice in theory, but in practice, all it means is that the government gets less revenue in the long term, and the poor get poorer, wheres ironically the rich could ride it out.

You might think things are bad now, but if labour is voted back in then it will get much much worse. Another 5 years of the Tories would slowly (slower than it has to be admitadely) get the economy back on its feet benefiting everyone. Five years of Labour and I pity the poor sods that have to clear up the mess in 2020.
You see this is why I'm angry because it's not that the poor have been 'worst' hit because the rich seem to be flourishing as if they haven't been hit at all. Progressive taxation has been proven to work in the past and I believe Labour is returning to it's roots and deserves another chance. After all, it is the the Attlee Labour Government that provided us with the welfare reforms that make up the basis of what we have today. Another 5 years of the Conservatives and I honestly believe all that Bevan worked so hard for will be destroyed! Plus, I honestly believe Cameron is no longer completely fit for the job, he seems tired of it all and all parties eventually have to stop and recuperate in order to return ready for the fight. Anyway, regardless.. as long as UKIP aren't in power I'll be content!
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Lauren.12
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#280
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#280
(Original post by QuantumOverlord)
Lol its like history is being rewritten in front of my eyes. It was labour that destroyed the country.
And the Conservatives destroyed the country before that, and Labour before that and Conservatives before that and..etc. Sorry but it's easy to pick out mistakes with both parties when looking at history, that doesn't mean they don't deserve another chance. I mean if you want to start looking at history, what about the Attlee Labour government after WW2 that brought in all the crucial welfare reforms that we all benefit from today, including the NHS! To be honest you can blame either side but both parties have their benefits. In fact when you look at the war coalition during WW2 you can see that the parties can work together to produce amazing results even during times of hardship!
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