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    (Original post by daydreamer4life)
    My favourite vegan quote is Theodor W. Adorno“Auschwitz begins wherever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals."Adorno who said it was a jew himself!
    brilliant

    I often quote this one, i didn't realise it was from Shaw

    “Animals are my friends...and I don't eat my friends.”
    George Bernard Shawand

    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”
    Albert Schweitzer
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    You are missing the point.

    Both eating meat and rape are fine from a "biological" stand point. Male chimpanzees violently assault females.

    Yet we deem rape as wrong but not eating meat. There is no reason why we have to respect female humans like we do from a "biological" stand point. Basically the argument that because certain behaviors are "natural" they are justified doesn't cut the mustard when so much of what we do contradicts "nature".

    I can come up with lots of "biological" arguments as to why we don't accept rape or why some people are vegetarians but that also beside the point.

    and yes, we also have major protein resources without touching animals....
    Well the reason we think rape is wrong is because we have theory of mind: we can empathise with the woman being raped because we know she is a sentient being the same as us. That is the reason why we "have to respect female humans like we do".

    However, we see most animals as unable to comprehend that death is in their future, essentially non-sentient at least with respect to that. Of course an animal will feel fear when it is being killed (whether slaughtered humanely or torn apart by a predator), but I'm not sure the animal knows what is going on in quite the same sense we do. Certainly animals, especially the animals we farm, are not smart enough to understand what is going on on a farm systemically and that their and their friends' ultimate fate is to be carted off to their deaths.

    We do routinely acknowledge that other animals have some form of higher consciousness when we condemn whaling, bushmeat, and ivory, and when we apply higher ethical standards to animal testing on chimps, octopuses, dolphins etc. However we do not speak of any of those animals "raping" or "murdering" each other because we assume they are not quite smart enough to have theory of mind, so those things are not immoral acts.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Well the reason we think rape is wrong is because we have theory of mind: we can empathise with the woman being raped because we know she is a sentient being the same as us. That is the reason why we "have to respect female humans like we do".

    However, we see most animals as unable to comprehend that death is in their future, essentially non-sentient at least with respect to that. Of course an animal will feel fear when it is being killed (whether slaughtered humanely or torn apart by a predator), but I'm not sure the animal knows what is going on in quite the same sense we do. Certainly animals, especially the animals we farm, are not smart enough to understand what is going on on a farm systemically and that their and their friends' ultimate fate is to be carted off to their deaths.

    We do routinely acknowledge that other animals have some form of higher consciousness when we condemn whaling, bushmeat, and ivory, and when we apply higher ethical standards to animal testing on chimps, octopuses, dolphins etc. However we do not speak of any of those animals "raping" or "murdering" each other because we assume they are not quite smart enough to have theory of mind, so those things are not immoral acts.
    Actually pigs display object permanence, something not even young children do.

    Many scientists believe that animals we frequently farm do, in fact, experience consciousness.

    The question is not whether animals can reason, nor whether they understand what is happening to them. The question is can they suffer. The answer to that is yes. Paraphrased from someone.

    There is a theory called the meat paradox. How does one designate one animal as food, but the other as family?

    As a lifelong vegetarian, I can't answer this question.

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    (Original post by Katty3)
    Actually pigs display object permanence, something not even young children do.

    Many scientists believe that animals we frequently farm do, in fact, experience consciousness.

    The question is not whether animals can reason, nor whether they understand what is happening to them. The question is can they suffer. The answer to that is yes. Paraphrased from someone.

    There is a theory called the meat paradox. How does one designate one animal as food, but the other as family?

    As a lifelong vegetarian, I can't answer this question.

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    I am perturbed by the way pigs seem to be farmed, in small pens. It seems inhumane, is there a better way to do it or what are the reasons for it?

    I absolutely do not agree about the suffering thing. Obviously there is real physical suffering, such as confinement in a small cage, or animals bred so hard for yield that they have health problems, or I can't imagine it's much fun having your tits squeezed by a milking machine.

    And I think it's obvious animals are going to feel fear and suffering at the moment of their slaughter - although here, note that they'd feel the same dying in the wild too, likely worse.

    But I absolutely do not agree that day-to-day life on the farm, aside from the physical suffering I mentioned above, entails suffering for animals. Surely the sort of suffering slavery/lack of freedom entails is that you know your life is not really yours but in the palm of someone else's hand: they choose your death date and where you go etc. Animals don't understand that and thus they do not suffer in the same manner as human slaves.

    The fact that farm animals live longer with access to food, sex and medicine would seem to be an especially good trade-off if you don't understand and suffer from the state of being unfree.

    That suffering does require reason and animals don't have it.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    £20 - 30 for TWO people?! I spend £50 a week on just ME, at least £20 on meat for the week. One year of Vit D3 supply is like £10?
    Well you clearly are terrible with your money

    More like 30 pills for a tenner!? If that...

    I currently have a years supply courtesy of the NHS but the Dr said its important I top it up with diet. You
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Yes, humans have the ability to eat meat. It is a descriptive term. I'm not sure why you treat it as a prescriptive. You seem to profoundly misunderstand what the term actually means.
    Eh? Either you're trying to completely misrepresentate my argument or you're just not bothering to read it - a normal biological function cannot be compared to a social framework.

    The first part "No more than in as much as food forming part of social events" makes no sense. What are you trying to say here? No more than what?
    So all you've got left is nitpicking grammar? It's quite clear, eating meat is no more a social occasion than eating in general.

    So eating is a matter of survival, yes, but eating meat is not.
    It is unless you supplement your diet with things like vitamin D3.


    Because I haven't seen conclusive evidence that bivalves are incapable of pain.
    Have you seen conclusive evidence that plants are incapable of pain? Ultimately its not about doing the least harm possible since that necessitates suicide, it's not even about reducing suffering in diet as much as possible since that would involve adopting freeganism, a bivalve or insect based diet or primitivist hunter-gatherer behaviour, so we can conclude that it just needs to reduce harm by wn amount, so veganism has no logical opposition to eating just a low meat diet or one with free-range and local animals rather than factory farmed, unless we go down the rights route, in which case I'll have to point out again that animals die for anyone to survive - we kill hundreds of thousands of insects and small herbivores to maintain crops for vegan diets, the only difference is that the cow ends up on my plate while the mouse doesn't end up on yours. So, why is it acceptable to kill animals provided you don't eat them?


    I'm going to restate this question in bold in the hope you'll bother to answer it. I don't even care about the rest of my points, this is the clincher, so concentrate on answer it alone if that's easier for you to do:

    What quality do humans have that make them moral subjects that animals lack?
    Thought I was quite clear that it's irrelevant since morals don't come into predator-prey relationships but nevermind.


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    (Original post by selfteaching)
    brilliant

    I often quote this one, i didn't realise it was from Shaw

    “Animals are my friends...and I don't eat my friends.”
    George Bernard Shawand

    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”
    Albert Schweitzer
    Excellent quotes. Where did you find them or come across them?
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    (Original post by NathanDYEL)
    I would........
    Same, I don't live near a slaughterhouse anyway

    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Well I can avoid what I know about, and try my hardest to avoid all animal products best I can. Not much more I can do beyond that to be honest
    It's funny you say that because you've just shown you fall into one of the categories I mentioned: ignorance is bliss.

    There is more you can do, you can research it further and ensure that you cut things out when you discover they contain animal products.


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    (Original post by there's too much love;[url="tel:60200531")
    60200531[/url]]So what quality do humans have that make humans moral subjects and animals not moral subjects?


    That's a description, it's not presently the case but it's not a prescription against it.

    So why draw the line there?
    I don't care about brown people, why don't we just kill them and not non-brown people? How is that line any less arbitrary?

    You kind of made my argument for me, they're not moral agents.
    I thought we weren't basing our morality on the thoughts of lions?

    In the meat industry I've not once seen humaneness. I seen some things worse than others, but the less bad things are not 'humane'.


    The meat eating is compeltely unecessary. We don't need animal products.
    However, free range, organic the meat may be, that doesn't amount to an increase in welfare to a level that would be morally acceptable.
    What your argument so far seems to amount to is:
    Animal suffering is wrong when it is arbitrary.
    If it is in anyway limited and serves a purpose for you, it is not arbitrary.

    If you disagree with that then please do put forward what it is because I don't want to straw man you. If that is your argument (which so far it appears to me to be) then I put it to you:
    Do you need to eat animal products?
    Because I would argue you probably don't. And if that is the case then you having a use for the animals becomes null as an argument, because you can make choices to avoid eating them.


    But you don't need to eat the cod.
    I want to ask you, if you were going to be killed for someone elses meal what would a humane death look like to you? How would you want them to kill you? Would you have any fear as it approached?




    I wouldn't assume otherwise. It's an internet forum not a chat room
    Good morning.

    First of all, what is a moral subject? If you're asking why we should only take care of humans and not animals, that's not what I'm trying to say here. I recognise that animals are alive, with thoughts and feelings, but I don't want to starve. I would never harm an animal for any other reason; that would be cruel.(My cat has a different approach; he'll kill a mouse and he won't even eat it... That's just mean).

    I don't understand the whole description/perscription thing...
    Those "brown people" are humans, hence part of our species. They're the same as us in every way except the colour of their skin, which isn't a good reason to judge someone. To do so would be racist.

    I don't fully understand what a moral agent is... My morality is based on a combination of what occurs in nature, experiences, human society, justice, facts, logic, and numerous other things, including - dare I say it - compassion.
    Also, what does it mean to straw man someone? I'm fairly new to this site (you've probably noticed lol) and I keep seeing that term being tossed around. If you could give me the definition, I'd be very grateful.

    Do I need to eat animal products? I would say that I do. They make up a substantial part of my diet, especially milk and cheese, and I don't eat much to begin with. The only meat I like to eat is fish, the only vegetables are carrot, cucumber, sweetcorn, peppers, and celery, and as far as fruit goes, strawberry, banana, and melon are my main three... I want to try more but I'm a very picky eater; it's a miracle I'm still going, to be honest. I think it's mainly because of the carbohydrates, and recently my weight has dropped which makes it difficult to buy clothes.
    I've started exercising and lifting weights too, so my friends are telling me that I need to eat more or kiss goodbye to being strong.
    My doctor told me to eat eggs more often because they contained something I needed, though I can't remember what. I tried to do as he said but I don't like the texture of eggs very much, plus they're basically chicken periods.

    My family are hard to live with when it comes to meat; they like everything, and when I complain, I cause tension. Last night they were having pork and I managed to pull some strings and get myself haddock instead. Sometimes that doesn't happen; I'm given what they're having and I end up hardly touching it.They also eat takeaway, which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.We had quorn mince/chicken once, but I was the only one who liked it and we haven't had it since.

    I don't want to get caught up in a world of supplements; I'm already taking multivitamin tablets and I'm deficient in vitamin D. I don't want to live on pills for the rest of my life; I want to taste my food.

    So do I need to eat animal products? Yes, because otherwise I'd become dangerously ill at the very least, and I don't want to lose anymore weight.
    If I had to choose between sacrificing my own health and not saving a squid, I would pick the latter.

    If I absolutely had to be killed to feed someone, I'd want something quick and painless. Maybe an injection? Then I can go peacefully in my sleep. If farms use a more brutal method, then that is what we should be tackling. I'm not sure how we'd solve that problem regarding fishing nets but we could come up with something.

    Would I have fear? Yes, provided I knew what was going to happen. The same fear that an antelope has whilst it's running from its own predator, except I wouldn't be mauled to death and left for vultures/hyenas. I'd want every part of my body to be used, which is why I'm probably going to donate myself to science after I die.

    It's like if a tiger ate my best friend; I'd be devastated and probably fall back into depression. Would I want to kill the tiger? Never. It was simply looking for food in order to survive; I can't judge it for that.

    There's another thing I don't understand about veganism/vegetarianism... Plants are animals too, so why do you eat them? Is it because they don't move? They're sentient, aren't they? Even if they're not, they're still alive, so I can't help but wonder what makes them different from a cow. Except that they get eaten by the cow, but you get what I'm saying.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Same, I don't live near a slaughterhouse anyway



    It's funny you say that because you've just shown you fall into one of the categories I mentioned: ignorance is bliss.

    There is more you can do, you can research it further and ensure that you cut things out when you discover they contain animal products.


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    You are ignorant of what it means to be a Vegan. That's exactly what i do. I research the hell out of everything I use and stop using it as soon as I find out it has animal products. Now can you stop being so annoying already. I know you love your meat so much, now keep your anti-veganism in your pants!
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    (Original post by Louisb19)
    Work is slavery? You have every right to go live in the forest if you like, then you won't have to work!

    If we stopped working the entire world would collapse since no one in the western world would have food, shelter or water. On the other hand, if we stopped killing animals:

    - C02 emissions decrease
    - 6 MILLION less animals die per minute
    - 45% of the land on earth doesn't have to be used for the meat industry
    - The amount of food we have available would increase 5 fold
    - The human race could live with the peace of mind that we don't enslave and torture everything that we find.

    No argument you can make apart from 'It tastes good!' is valid in favour of the meat industry, so please stop trying; it's honestly embarrassing.
    Well firstly you argued eating meat had nothing to do with human development in an earlier post, which is wrong, it's part of the reason we have such large brains. Also had we not killed animals for we would may well have become prey and we certain wouldn't have carved out such enormous territories for ourselves.

    How would the amount of food available go up if you take away a large food group?

    No 45% of land on earth wouldn't be used by the meat industry but a large amount of that would be used by the animals we release until their inevitable death due to lack of ability to survive in the wild.

    In my opinion saying meat tastes nice is a perfectly valid reason. Killing other animals for food is just part of nature, it's why the strongest survive.


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    (Original post by BekahMay)
    True, most people do assume that because our ancestors eat meat we must have to yet decide that other aspects of their lives were wrong
    Could i ask why youre vegan rather than vegetarian? I know there is still alit of ethical issies with alot of animal products but say for example free range eggs do you have any issue with them?
    Even when ethical issues are out the window, health issues are still there. There are many health issues involving the consumption of chicken eggs. (+meat and dairy)

    Also "free range" is pretty much bull****, the only way to know you are getting real "free-range" eggs would to go to a small farm that isn't run by an organization and pick up the eggs yourself.

    "Many organic and “free-range” farms cram thousands of animals together in sheds or on mud-filled lots to increase profits, just as factory farms do, and the animals often endure the same mutilations—such as debeaking, dehorning, and castration without painkillers—that occur on factory farms."
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    (Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy)
    Good morning.

    First of all, what is a moral subject? If you're asking why we should only take care of humans and not animals, that's not what I'm trying to say here. I recognise that animals are alive, with thoughts and feelings, but I don't want to starve.
    There is more than enough plant food for everyone on this whole planet, so let's put that myth to rest. Meat-eating is a voluntary choice, not a necessity. If you didn't eat meat there would be more food for everyone else, so if anything by not eating meat other people are less likely to starve.

    Good morning btw
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    I like meat.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    In my opinion saying meat tastes nice is a perfectly valid reason. Killing other animals for food is just part of nature, it's why the strongest survive.
    :lolwut: So if humans tasted nice you would eat them? :rolleyes: What a non-sensical argument.

    And in response to your second point, I'd love to see you go head to head with a lion. That would make my day.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    There is more than enough plant food for everyone on this whole planet, so let's put that myth to rest. Meat-eating is a voluntary choice, not a necessity. If you didn't eat meat there would be more food for everyone else, so if anything by not eating meat other people are less likely to starve.

    Good morning btw
    I'm not saying there isn't enough plant food to go around, I'm saying that many of us need both. It's the same with just eating meat; you wouldn't get very far...

    What about the rest of my message? My weight loss? My excersise regime and weight lifting? My difficult family? If I didn't eat any animal products, it would probably have a negative impact on my health and home life. I don't want to rely on supplements or spend hours researching different foods; I have other things I need to do.

    I'd really like to keep talking with you but I might have to stop if the other guy/girl logs on; it's hard to keep track of two conversations. Lol
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    (Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy)
    I'm not saying there isn't enough plant food to go around, I'm saying that many of us need both. It's the same with just eating meat; you wouldn't get very far...

    What about the rest of my message? My weight loss? My excersise regime and weight lifting? My difficult family? If I didn't eat any animal products, it would probably have a negative impact on my health and home life. I don't want to rely on supplements or spend hours researching different foods; I have other things I need to do.

    I'd really like to keep talking with you but I might have to stop if the other guy/girl logs on; it's hard to keep track of two conversations. Lol
    Not eating meat is highly unlikely to affect your health unless you live off chips all day, and that is hardly the fault of the diet, but of a poor diet. You cannot get ill from eating a balanced Vegan diet. I have been a vegan for 1.5years and have no health issues. I eat a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables, nuts, tofu, etc. If you eat properly, a non-meat diet shouldn't affect your health.

    As for family being difficult, that is a more plausible reason for not being to give up meat. When I because a Vegan I was bullied by my family and relatives for nearly a year. Even now I still get the odd comment about not eating butter etc, but I play along with the joke and eventually they tire and i've found they've grown to accept it and don't bother me about it anymore.

    Whether you stop eating meat in light of family is still down to you at the end of the day. If you care about animal rights enough you will disregard the bullying that comes with becoming a vegan/vegetarian. Whether you care about the cause enough is down to you. I wouldn't put the blame squarely on your family. It's like like they would threaten to kick you out or kill you if you stopped eating meat is it? If not then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to exercise your free will on such a decision about what you eat. If I can do it, you can do it. The real question is whether you want to do it badly enough

    Oh PS: i've nearly reached my lifelong goal of doing a one arm pull up - on a vegan diet. So the myth we vegans are weak is bs.
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    (Original post by TooEasy123)
    :gigg:

    [img]https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12033214_920077914753332_4925388 107424052541_n.jpg?oh=b83606e76c 48045d8fd0e16361b3182f&oe=56B79C CE[/im]
    That thing on the left is scary, wtf, :eek:
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Not eating meat is highly unlikely to affect your health unless you live off chips all day, and that is hardly the fault of the diet, but of a poor diet. You cannot get ill from eating a balanced Vegan diet. I have been a vegan for 1.5years and have no health issues. I eat a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables, nuts, tofu, etc. If you eat properly, a non-meat diet shouldn't affect your health.

    As for family being difficult, that is a more plausible reason for not being to give up meat. When I because a Vegan I was bullied by my family and relatives for nearly a year. Even now I still get the odd comment about not eating butter etc, but I play along with the joke and eventually they tire and i've found they've grown to accept it and don't bother me about it anymore.

    Whether you stop eating meat in light of family is still down to you at the end of the day. If you care about animal rights enough you will disregard the bullying that comes with becoming a vegan/vegetarian. Whether you care about the cause enough is down to you. I wouldn't put the blame squarely on your family. It's like like they would threaten to kick you out or kill you if you stopped eating meat is it? If not then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to exercise your free will on such a decision about what you eat. If I can do it, you can do it. The real question is whether you want to do it badly enough

    Oh PS: i've nearly reached my lifelong goal of doing a one arm pull up - on a vegan diet. So the myth we vegans are weak is bs.
    Haha! I don't like chips or potato; I'm more of a rice/spaghetti person, to be honest. Pasta is nice too, especially the tubes, and yes, the shape does impact the taste (everyone thinks I'm crazy when I tell them that). I'm not entirely sure what a balanced vegan diet is, but I don't want it to go against what my doctors have been telling me... All my life I've been taught that a balanced diet is having the right amount of fruit/veg, meat, sugar, and carbohydrates, and that focusing on one group isn't healthy.
    I love to eat peanuts; I can easily go through a bag of them in one sitting, and I've never had tofu so I don't know what that's like... My parents say it's disgusting but then again, they would say that.
    The fruit and vegetable part will be difficult; pears have a grainy texture for me and orange segments have those weird skins. Pineapple is nice but it's odd and stringy. Would it matter if I lived off smoothies? That removes the texture problem and I could probably fit a lot more in. I guess I could make vegetable smoothies too but that doesn't sound very appealing, especially when I don't like the taste of broccoli or beans or spinach or anything like that.
    I don't know if juice contains animal products but either way, I haven't touched it in nearly 2 years because of the outrageous amounts of sugar. First I switched to milk, then I realised that probably wasn't doing me any favours either, so now I rely more heavily on water.

    I think it's wrong to bully or insult someone just because of their diet; I can't believe your family would do such a thing and you have my sympathy.
    My folks wouldn't threaten to kick me out or kill me, but I argue with them enough and my mother complains that she doesn't have enough time or space on the cooker to make different meals. I'm lucky they're okay with fish, otherwise I'd be totally screwed. I don't think I'd get bullied but I've been through enough of that already for different reasons, so I'm not too keen on risking it.

    I love chocolate, and sweets and other sugary things, and melted cheese and sushi, so I honestly doubt if I could give all of that up in return for foods like cress and asparagus, which are quite bland.Would I be able to have cake? Or donuts? Oreos? Anything like that? I've cut down on a lot of these but they're still some of my favourite things to eat, especially at parties and the like.

    Honestly, the furthest I could go is vegetarian or pescetarian, which I might well do after I get strong, so it wouldn't hinder my journey.Plus, if I ate Quorn then I could have spaghetti bolognese and wraps.

    Pull ups are difficult so well done. I'm focusing on crunches, lunges, and lifting at the moment, and I like to think I'm getting better. Are you particularly muscular? Do you find it difficult to walk/run for long periods of time?

    And might I add, thank you for being kinder and more civil than a lot of the people on this thread; many of them come across as snarky and entitled.I used to have a vegetarian friend and all she did was belittle me, from my diet to my music to my clothes and even the way I speak. Looking back, I don't think she could even be considered a friend.
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    (Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy)
    Haha! I don't like chips or potato; I'm more of a rice/spaghetti person, to be honest. Pasta is nice too, especially the tubes, and yes, the shape does impact the taste (everyone thinks I'm crazy when I tell them that). I'm not entirely sure what a balanced vegan diet is, but I don't want it to go against what my doctors have been telling me... All my life I've been taught that a balanced diet is having the right amount of fruit/veg, meat, sugar, and carbohydrates, and that focusing on one group isn't healthy.
    I love to eat peanuts; I can easily go through a bag of them in one sitting, and I've never had tofu so I don't know what that's like... My parents say it's disgusting but then again, they would say that.
    The fruit and vegetable part will be difficult; pears have a grainy texture for me and orange segments have those weird skins. Pineapple is nice but it's odd and stringy. Would it matter if I lived off smoothies? That removes the texture problem and I could probably fit a lot more in. I guess I could make vegetable smoothies too but that doesn't sound very appealing, especially when I don't like the taste of broccoli or beans or spinach or anything like that.
    I don't know if juice contains animal products but either way, I haven't touched it in nearly 2 years because of the outrageous amounts of sugar. First I switched to milk, then I realised that probably wasn't doing me any favours either, so now I rely more heavily on water.

    I think it's wrong to bully or insult someone just because of their diet; I can't believe your family would do such a thing and you have my sympathy.
    My folks wouldn't threaten to kick me out or kill me, but I argue with them enough and my mother complains that she doesn't have enough time or space on the cooker to make different meals. I'm lucky they're okay with fish, otherwise I'd be totally screwed. I don't think I'd get bullied but I've been through enough of that already for different reasons, so I'm not too keen on risking it.

    I love chocolate, and sweets and other sugary things, and melted cheese and sushi, so I honestly doubt if I could give all of that up in return for foods like cress and asparagus, which are quite bland.Would I be able to have cake? Or donuts? Oreos? Anything like that? I've cut down on a lot of these but they're still some of my favourite things to eat, especially at parties and the like.

    Honestly, the furthest I could go is vegetarian or pescetarian, which I might well do after I get strong, so it wouldn't hinder my journey.Plus, if I ate Quorn then I could have spaghetti bolognese and wraps.

    Pull ups are difficult so well done. I'm focusing on crunches, lunges, and lifting at the moment, and I like to think I'm getting better. Are you particularly muscular? Do you find it difficult to walk/run for long periods of time?

    And might I add, thank you for being kinder and more civil than a lot of the people on this thread; many of them come across as snarky and entitled.I used to have a vegetarian friend and all she did was belittle me, from my diet to my music to my clothes and even the way I speak. Looking back, I don't think she could even be considered a friend.
    Hiya,

    I've just read your post and it instantly shocks me how little fruit and veg you seem to eat and how carb rich your diet is, especially unhealthy carbs in the form of refined sugar rich foods that are in chocolates, donuts etc. That is definitely not a healthy or balanced diet and problems why you have health problems. Let me tell you what I eat on a typical day as an example:

    In the morning I have cereal or porridge with tea. I have no tea in my sugar and I use unsweetened soya or almond milk with the tea and cereal.

    For lunch I have a sandwich with hummus, lettuce, tomatoes, onions. I sometimes have a cup of tea, or water. If I'm feeling adventurous I make myself fresh carrot juice. I also have a banana and clementine, with some nuts sometimes. I NEVER have a whole package - that's too fatty and unhealthy. I never EVER buy juice from the store as it's high in sugar. Also as you'd probably noticed i'm on a low sugar diet - simple chain sugars are bad for your health in large quantities so i've cut it out and get all my sugars from carbs now).

    For tea I have a cup of tea, perhaps another fruit of a few rich tea biscuits. Rich tea biscuits have 1g of sugar per biscuit. Digestives have 3g. So I eat up to 3 biscuits because I really watch the sugar. I stay away from Digestives due to its' sugar content.

    For dinner I have a spicy curry with chappatis (no butter) with rice. The curry is home made and tomato based. For example last night I had a lentil curry with rice and chappatis. I sometimes have things like stir fry broccoli or even steamed vegetables with a frozen vegan burger and bread. I try to combine veg with whatever I eat so I can get the vitamins from it. I used to eat a lot of carbs - just bread and tea and crisps etc, but i've reduced the carbs in favour of fruits and veggies.

    I don't eat chocolates anymore, nor eat foods rich in sugar. I've not eaten any chocolates, crisps or drunk any fizzy drinks since last feb. You have to be very disciplined to do what I do because it is easy to lapse and end up gorging on unhealthy, tasty junk food.

    The unhealthiest meal of the weak is by far on a friday night when I have chips with samosas. But even here i've started mixing it up. I have baked beans on seeded bread wit hummus and rocket salad and tomatoes. Then I have a side of chips and samosas. The beans and bread fill me up sufficiently so I don't eat to eat too many oily chips.

    As for your parents not wanting to cook for you, if you are really serious about your health, body and diet, you will stop being lazy and cook yourself. I've taught myself to cook and can cook most of the stuff I eat. In fact I've learned to cook so many different dishes since I've become a vegan. Cooking used to be a chore but I find it really fun now.

    As for exercises, I go rock climbing 3-4 times a week and a back/physio back class too. Crunches are good, as are pull-ups and weights, but you really need to sort out your diet. Exercising and diet are both important to keep fit. Exercising a bit and eating junk food is not a great lifestyle.

    You could also have 'cheat-days' like with me and chips day. But just make sure you do intensive exercise earlier in the day, or after/the following day so you don't put on too much fat from eating all that junk food. Eating more calories than your body uses is a surefire way to put on a lot of fat.

    Sorry my reply was all over the place, but I hope you get the message I was trying to convey, in that you really need to eat more fruit and veg. Oh and yes, smoothies are awesome! If you can't handle the texture, DEFINITELY make a smoothie and get your nutrient intake in this way!!!! You can pick up a cheap smoothie maker for £20 from Argos.
    Any more questions please ask.
 
 
 
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