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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    that is like saying Oh X country Executes muslims for being muslims JUST DONT GO THERE it is a muslims fault if they die there. it does not solver
    And you just know that if there was such a place, British Muslims would be all over them like a rash.

    As we all know, Muslims are uniquely sensitive to the suffering of all Muslims everywhere, through some as yet unknown mechanism. This is why they are disproportionately involved in anything that can be perceived as oppression of Muslims. You can bet Yasmin Kattan is extremely interested in the Palestine issue.

    But when it comes to a group that we might be interested in, suddenly it's "It doesn't affect you, why do you care?".

    The hypocrisy here is turned up all the way to 11
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    Sorry bud but gay people =/= homosexuals.

    Well I mean, referring to gay people with language such as 'homosexuals' or 'the gays' is dehumanizing and a grade A indicator of homophobic view points to begin with. If you're seeing that and the oh so healthy dollop of microaggresssions I've scrolled past and you're coming up with none of these people being homophobes then you're definitely mistaken on your having internalized homophobic views. And that's okay, realistically everyone has them - you just gotta work on it.

    Now then, I've never said there's anything wrong with being against homophobia or speaking out against it. However quite simply, that is not what this is. This is people using 'homosexuals' as a means to quench their bottomless confirmation bias against Islam, not a critique of the way that Islam is used as a reasoning/incitement for some Muslims homophobic actions. I'm not actually going to delve into the discourse here or air my views on the topic because I'm finding the irony of people reducing gay tragedy™ to a simple discussion point to support their preconceived generalizations of a group of people is far too ridiculous a concept to begin with.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    The "colonial" excuse for homophobia in those countries is absolute bunk. First, mainstream Islam has always condemned homosexuality. Iran and Saudi Arabia were never colonised by the West but they are very hostile to LGBT. Saudi's condemnation of LGBT comes directly from sharia.

    Also, the British Empire ended 70 years ago, so they've had plenty of time to repeal those laws in the meantime. The reason they're still on the books is because the people agree with them
    REGARDLESS, they still "kick started" these laws and the only reason they abide to them is because of the strong influence and impact colonism has on Pakistan, considering the country is corrupted with a loose government. SAUDI ARABIA is, not, an representative of Islam in any way. It follows the Wahhabi School of Islam, which in my perspective is merely a offshoot of Islam, radical, masquerading for political and social gain. Turkey, reformed Islamic country, and Indonesia haven't illegalised Homosexuality, and yet have high Islamic populations and Islamic democracy.
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    Sorry bud but gay people =/= homosexuals.

    Well I mean, referring to gay people with language such as 'homosexuals' or 'the gays' is dehumanizing and a grade A indicator of homophobic view points to begin with. If you're seeing that and the oh so healthy dollop of microaggresssions I've scrolled past and you're coming up with none of these people being homophobes then you're definitely mistaken on your having internalized homophobic views. And that's okay, realistically everyone has them - you just gotta work on it.

    Now then, I've never said there's anything wrong with being against homophobia or speaking out against it. However quite simply, that is not what this is. This is people using 'homosexuals' as a means to quench their bottomless confirmation bias against Islam, not a critique of the way that Islam is used as a reasoning/incitement for some Muslims homophobic actions. I'm not actually going to delve into the discourse here or air my views on the topic because I'm finding the irony of people reducing gay tragedy™ to a simple discussion point to support their preconceived generalizations of a group of people is far too ridiculous a concept to begin with.
    This is probably the most educated point of view in this entire post tbh.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    And you just know that if there was such a place, British Muslims would be all over them like a rash.

    As we all know, Muslims are uniquely sensitive to the suffering of all Muslims everywhere, through some as yet unknown mechanism. This is why they are disproportionately involved in anything that can be perceived as oppression of Muslims. You can bet Yasmin Kattan is extremely interested in the Palestine issue.

    But when it comes to a group that we might be interested in, suddenly it's "It doesn't affect you, why do you care?".

    The hypocrisy here is turned up all the way to 11
    The Palestinian issue is an Humanitarian Issue. Although, I aside with more with Israel, I could see why people would commiserate with Palestine due to the war statistics.
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    Sorry bud but gay people =/= homosexuals.

    Well I mean, referring to gay people with language such as 'homosexuals' or 'the gays' is dehumanizing and a grade A indicator of homophobic view points to begin with. If you're seeing that and the oh so healthy dollop of microaggresssions I've scrolled past and you're coming up with none of these people being homophobes then you're definitely mistaken on your having internalized homophobic views. And that's okay, realistically everyone has them - you just gotta work on it.

    Now then, I've never said there's anything wrong with being against homophobia or speaking out against it. However quite simply, that is not what this is. This is people using 'homosexuals' as a means to quench their bottomless confirmation bias against Islam, not a critique of the way that Islam is used as a reasoning/incitement for some Muslims homophobic actions. I'm not actually going to delve into the discourse here or air my views on the topic because I'm finding the irony of people reducing gay tragedy™ to a simple discussion point to support their preconceived generalizations of a group of people is far too ridiculous a concept to begin with.


    This really is getting so far out of hand
    Saying someone is gay is not "micro aggression" If I said oh look its another bloody gay that would be offensive as i am using it in a derogatory way. But if I said oh you know Jon yeah he came out as gay last week. that is not that it a FACT and homosexual is not rude either if you use it in the right context.

    why does gay pride exist why is it not Men who like other men pride or something you deem less offensive. I see it as something they can be proud of if they want to.

    I mean do you think calling someone black in a non rude way is rude? it isnt it is a fact and anyone that thinks me saying Oh yeah he is black is rude means you think that being black is bad, I am white that is a fact saying it wont offend me so please stop picking at every little thing you can to try and make yourself seem right.

    and "Microagressions" don't exist they are just used to justify anger against nothings




    And if you think we are Generalizing it is because it is TRUE some generalizations are just and need to be there, If I have a Jewish friend coming over I may think oh I need to make sure this is kosher, he may be very liberal and not mind eating some non kosher food.

    If you ask most muslims in heavily islamic countries most of them will have highly negative views. but please don't take this as ALL MUSLIMS as no where have I stated that
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    Sorry bud but gay people =/= homosexuals.

    Well I mean, referring to gay people with language such as 'homosexuals' or 'the gays' is dehumanizing and a grade A indicator of homophobic view points to begin with. If you're seeing that and the oh so healthy dollop of microaggresssions I've scrolled past and you're coming up with none of these people being homophobes then you're definitely mistaken on your having internalized homophobic views. And that's okay, realistically everyone has them - you just gotta work on it.

    Now then, I've never said there's anything wrong with being against homophobia or speaking out against it. However quite simply, that is not what this is. This is people using 'homosexuals' as a means to quench their bottomless confirmation bias against Islam, not a critique of the way that Islam is used as a reasoning/incitement for some Muslims homophobic actions. I'm not actually going to delve into the discourse here or air my views on the topic because I'm finding the irony of people reducing gay tragedy™ to a simple discussion point to support their preconceived generalizations of a group of people is far too ridiculous a concept to begin with.
    What do you think of Douglas Murray?
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    (Original post by F.SA)
    This is probably the most educated point of view in this entire post tbh.
    I actually think it's some of the most supercilious inconsequential crap I've ever had the displeasure of reading.
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    (Original post by sfaraj)
    thats not what i mean, religion is supposed to guide you on the right path, and i know islam condemns homosexuality so i've been guided but in the 21st century where everyone is more open minded i stay neutral so i dont get bashed for religious views, you didnt quite catch that my moral belief is blank, i dont care about lgbt, so i don't involve myself in that
    Either you believe that Islam is wrong to execute homosexuals, or it isn't. It's not really something you you can sit on the fence about.

    you're last point is quite unclear.... the guy was a doctor, not some scholar to go, KILL HIM
    He wasn't passing sentence on anyone. He was just explaining Islamic ideology.

    If he had been "some scholar", would you consider his statements acceptable?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Either you believe that Islam is wrong to execute homosexuals, or it isn't. It's not really something you you can sit on the fence about.

    He wasn't passing sentence on anyone. He was just explaining Islamic ideology.

    If he had been "some scholar", would you consider his statements acceptable?
    depends on the scholar, i follow sistani so any others would have to be taken into considertion

    you know our continuous bickering is getting tedious....
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    Bizarre, I keep trying to respond to that comment from NikolaTesticles and it won't let me. Something wrong with TSR? It just slows down and won't submit the reply
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    (Original post by Oblivion99)
    REGARDLESS, they still "kick started" these laws and the only reason they abide to them is because of the strong influence and impact colonism has on Pakistan,
    Now I know you are kidding. Pakistan's 1973 (so well after independence) constitution insists on Islam as the state religion and enshrines a requirement that all laws must be in conformity with the Koran and sunnah. There is no colonial influence there.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    Bizarre, I keep trying to respond to that comment from NikolaTesticles and it won't let me. Something wrong with TSR? It just slows down and won't submit the reply
    It's his safe space. You can't break through it.
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    (Original post by Oblivion99)
    The Palestinian issue is an Humanitarian Issue. Although, I aside with more with Israel, I could see why people would commiserate with Palestine due to the war statistics.


    But the fact that Arabs still keep slaves, oppress rape and kill women, prohibiting some from basic human rights like driving and singing while be-heading non muslims isn't?
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    Sorry bud but gay people =/= homosexuals.
    A homosexual is someone who is attracted to their own sex. So yes, gay people are homosexuals.

    Well I mean, referring to gay people with language such as 'homosexuals' or 'the gays' is dehumanizing and a grade A indicator of homophobic view points to begin with.
    I haven't seen anyone use the term "the gays" on here, which I would agree is somewhat offensive if not used in an ironic way. Referring to "homosexuals" as I have done has nothing to do with "microaggressions", it is perhaps more to do with using a more rhetorical and dispassionate style of argumentation.

    If you're seeing that and the oh so healthy dollop of microaggresssions I've scrolled past and you're coming up with none of these people being homophobes then you're definitely mistaken on your having internalized homophobic views.
    That is ludicrously illogical and entirely tends to confirmation bias. I'm sorry but you're new here, so you aren't really familiar with the other people on this thread who are making the same arguments I am. And it sounds like you are somewhat politically naive and ill-informed, thus you think that if someone criticises Islam it must be because they are some kind-of reactionary, right-wing 'Colonel Blimp' figure.

    It speaks poorly for your political awareness that you're unaware of the atheist tendencies that make up many of the voices critical of Islam in modern political discourse. I and quite a few of my friends who oppose Islam are atheists and democratic socialists. I know the other guys on here arguing against Islam also do so from an atheist perspective and some of them are liberal or centre-left.

    I'm sorry but you come across very badly in the comments you've made, and you seem somewhat oblivious to the very live debates that occur on the Islam/atheist axis rather than Islam/right-wing axis. Sam Harris is perhaps the best example of this. Anyway, all I'll add to that is that I think it's pathetic when a gay man is so passively in hock to his PC Islamophile views that he effectively becomes an apologist for tendencies that actually behead gay people.

    That's what you are, and of all the things I've seen, to me that bespeaks the real self-loathing here
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    It's his safe space. You can't break through it.
    Finally did :lol:
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Now I know you are kidding. Pakistan's 1973 (so well after independence) constitution insists on Islam as the state religion and enshrines a requirement that all laws must be in conformity with the Koran and sunnah. There is no colonial influence there.
    What Quran and Sunnah? Have you actually seen the country (Sorry if I seem like I'm scapegoating or whatever). And averting back to your point, an "okay, am I meant to believe you" response seems quite competent .
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I actually think it's some of the most supercilious inconsequential crap I've ever had the displeasure of reading.
    I actually only skimmed through the paragraph, upon rereading I retract my previous comment, ( I disagree with the point about using the term "homosexuals"). But the real problem here is that the focus of the article is that the man is Muslim. That is not important. Forget that. The important bit is that, out in the world there are still countries that dont accept homosexuality, and kill homosexual people everyday. THAT is an issue. Islam has a right to it's own opinion, despite it being, arguabley, the wrong point of view. HOWEVER, I believe it is wrong for homosexuality to be punishable by death, or by anything else as a matter of fact. On the other hand, we cannot blame the religion of Islam for being against homosexuality, when other religions are against it too, for example, Christianity. So yes, there are moral issues, but that doesn't give us to right to slander every Muslim we come across. Also, to the person who said you can just LEAVE Saudi Arabia if you are gay, I'm pretty sure it isn't that easy. If there's a war in Saudi Arabia you can't leave that easily. SO TO CONCLUDE! Don't discriminate against Islam for their beliefs because you do not know every Muslim. I am Muslim and so are my best friends and none of us reflect the Islamic view about homosexuality. Not everyone follows their religion to the letter.
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    (Original post by F.SA)
    I actually only skimmed through the paragraph, upon rereading I retract my previous comment
    I thought it was quite bizarre you praised it in those terms. See my response to it here below (click original post)

    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Because his views go against the teachings of the Qur'an. Your responses are starting to irritate me.
    So the fact that he disagrees with the teachings of the Qur'an is proof that he has not studied the Qur'an? Typical arrogant, cult-like Muslim attitude there.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    You think 'spread out' is the same as 'flat'? I don't know what to tell you really. No matter how much someone explains something to people like you, the hate you have for Islam will always cloud that mind of yours. Try reading the verses properly before claiming the Qur'an supports the idea of the earth being flat. So stupid.
    So, I'm intrigued as to how "spread out" means "oblate spheroid" (or even "round").

    Personally, having read all the relevant verses, it is not clearly stated either way, although the terminology used (spread out, extend, carpet, bed) does not at all suggest a three dimensional sphere, whilst the imagery used does suggest a planar surface.
 
 
 
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