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    (Original post by paul514)
    And you're the local dunce who thinks age is relevant.


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    you thought that the EU has stopped us from trading with everyone else. 50% of our trade is with non EU markets you fool.

    This kind of stupidity and inherent belief that the EU is actively seeking an extreme protectionist agenda is what has made you irrelevant.
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    you thought that the EU has stopped us from trading with everyone else. 50% of our trade is with non EU markets you fool.

    This kind of stupidity and inherent belief that the EU is actively seeking an extreme protectionist agenda is what has made you irrelevant.
    Could you quote the comment I said this


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    Hi all,

    Our Profs have been involved in an 'expert review' of the environmental impact of leaving the EU - an area that has only really just become part of the debate.

    They say that although leaving obviously poses some risks, and we would be venturing into the unknown, it also gives us some opportunity to do things we perhaps couldn't or haven't done before.

    They reported that being in the EU has had the most obvious impact '...in areas such as water quality, waste recycling and the protection of natural habitats.' but that 'The Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies have been far less successful in environmental terms...' for example.

    It's worth a read if you're interested in that side of things: https://www.uea.ac.uk/about/-/uk-referendum-environment-risks-and-opportunities

    :flower:
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    (Original post by james813)
    Well we have a trade deficit with the EU, so they should be pushing to continue trade with us. However, I know that is unlikely to happen since the EU is really really bad at making trade deals and wants to force red tape on its consumers - but that's the biggest reason we need to get out quickly. Of course there are risks, as with anything, but we would in the same situation after just a few years as any other country. And you don't seem to understand that trade deals work both ways.
    Britain trades with whoever it wants, the EU don't stop that. The PM and Chancellor was in China a few months ago with a lot of business people drumming up business. There was no one from the other EU countries there.

    Trade deals favour the more powerful country or trading bloc. The EU screws a lot of developing countries with tariffs on sugar and other stuff because its more powerful.

    The EU will do the same to any weaker country including the UK if it has a chance. UK has an export deficient with the EU but the EU exports less to the UK as a percentage of total exports.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Britain trades with whoever it wants, the EU don't stop that. The PM and Chancellor was in China a few months ago with a lot of business people drumming up business. There was no one from the other EU countries there.

    Trade deals favour the more powerful country or trading bloc. The EU screws a lot of developing countries with tariffs on sugar and other stuff because its more powerful.

    The EU will do the same to any weaker country including the UK if it has a chance. UK has an export deficient with the EU but the EU exports less to the UK as a percentage of total exports.
    Ok let's straighten a few things out here.

    Britain can and does trade wherever it likes but it does not do trade on its own terms with countries that have a trade deal with the eu. So whilst what you said is true it needs clarifying.

    Trade deals aren't as simple as favouring the larger economy as different countries have different interests and negotiate on that. If we simply took economy size then the eu just trumps the USA no pun intended and the USA just trumps China yet the eu doesn't get its own way with those nations.

    What's also missed on that point is only the USA, China, Japan and Germany have a larger economy than ourselves so the rest of the world even if your point were true could be screwed by us.

    Your point on trade deficit is disingenuous we buy 60-70 billion more from the eu than they buy from us which puts us in a strong position. We are the eu's biggest export market just trumping the USA. However to use percentages is misleading we sell 40-45% of our stuff to them and they sell 9% to us but the important figure is the actual money not the percentage. No one but the extreme retarded thinks trade will stop and each of the other 27 member states will have their own input into it. Remember their growth is either negative, zero or just positive with a couple of exceptions they simply individually can't afford a reduction in sales to us.




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    If the UK were to leave the EU, then David Cameron would resign after campaigning so hard for a remain vote and George Osborne would not have a chance at leadership. Article 50 would almost certainly triggered which means absolutely nothing would change for 2 years. In that time we would be able to negotiate a trade deal with the EU a little like Canada but with services although services are massively important in this case and trade tariffs are only about 2% anyway. Plus world trade organisation regulations make it very difficult to erect trade barriers were there were previously none. UK law would be sovereign and the British public would have full power to hire and fire politicians and no longer have them blame Brussels for everything they could not do. We can elect a government who shares our views on immigration whether it be Labour or UKIP it's up to the people and every year parliament can choose how many VISAs to give out, the key is we would have control. Admittedly we would still be stuck with EU regulations but only when we traded with the EU, not like now when it is applied to 100% of our trade. Also we would get a net of 12 billion pounds which could be spent on anything from the NHS to a 72% reduction in council tax to eliminating all of the austerity saving over the past 6 years. I am not trying to say everything will be perfect if we leave the EU there are risks but there are risks to everything we do. It is stupid to think that we will not be able to travel to Europe when we leave, there will be very little difference for people travelling. That is why I think we should leave
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Well for a start I'm older than him.

    Secondly the definition of a mature student isn't set by me but the uni's themselves.

    Lastly age has sod all to do with it


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    Older than him and yet you seem to have more time, like I said if you're an adult on this site surely you should only have time to contribute and not get into petty arguments, that's what us unemployed students do. Not grown adults unless you're struggling to make something of your life in which case I can state a few reasons why that might be.

    I know what a mature student is thanks, I was just stating he doesn't act mature.

    And this site is for students, most as in about 80% of students are under 22 so if you come on this site expect a lot of young people, if you're over that age and you use this site for other reasons than its intended purpose you must be failing in your life.
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    Good things will happen because there will be more control of its own laws.
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    (Original post by lastlullabyy)
    Depends when are you starting university... For example, I'm starting MSc in September and got a funded place by Scottish Funding Council, open only to Scottish and EU students - even if UK votes "leave" in June, I'd still get my funding. Not sure how it'll look for later years though.

    I am starting in September and I'm a bit scared that they will change my fee status during my degree so yeah...
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    The honest answer is nobody knows.
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    (Original post by Adelemyqueen)
    I am starting in September and I'm a bit scared that they will change my fee status during my degree so yeah...
    I doubt that would happen. It's likely any changes to student fee statuses would be grandfathered in, and it would take them a few years to agree all of the transitional arrangements and actually process the UK's exit by which time you'd have finished
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    (Original post by paul514)
    What's also missed on that point is only the USA, China, Japan and Germany have a larger economy than ourselves so the rest of the world even if your point were true could be screwed by us.
    Even though I favour remaining in the EU, I don't buy the argument that we have to be part of the EU or otherwise we'll be force to comply with all these EU laws and have no say in them.

    Countries like Australia trade extensively with the EU without being part of it. They don't have to change their entire economy to be compliant with EU rules, and in fact the same thing works in the opposite direction; to sell goods into the Australian market the EU has to comply with Australian rules but the EU somehow manages to get by without having a say in Australia's laws and without having to gear its entire economy to complying with its regulations
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    (Original post by elliottls97)
    If the UK were to leave the EU, then David Cameron would resign after campaigning so hard for a remain vote and George Osborne would not have a chance at leadership. Article 50 would almost certainly triggered which means absolutely nothing would change for 2 years. In that time we would be able to negotiate a trade deal with the EU a little like Canada but with services although services are massively important in this case and trade tariffs are only about 2% anyway. Plus world trade organisation regulations make it very difficult to erect trade barriers were there were previously none. UK law would be sovereign and the British public would have full power to hire and fire politicians and no longer have them blame Brussels for everything they could not do. We can elect a government who shares our views on immigration whether it be Labour or UKIP it's up to the people and every year parliament can choose how many VISAs to give out, the key is we would have control. Admittedly we would still be stuck with EU regulations but only when we traded with the EU, not like now when it is applied to 100% of our trade. Also we would get a net of 12 billion pounds which could be spent on anything from the NHS to a 72% reduction in council tax to eliminating all of the austerity saving over the past 6 years. I am not trying to say everything will be perfect if we leave the EU there are risks but there are risks to everything we do. It is stupid to think that we will not be able to travel to Europe when we leave, there will be very little difference for people travelling. That is why I think we should leave
    You need paragraphs.

    You are naive if you really think nothing will happen for 2 years after Brexit. Businesses will still have to decide whether invest in the UK or in the EU, farmers won't know if they will get their subsidies and British people living in the rest of the EU won't know if they can stay or have a job.

    All the uncertainty will put a damper on businesses and the economy. I think 2 years to sort something as complicated as our relationship with the EU is way too optimistic. I think a more realistic figure is 8 to 10 years and maybe even longer for somethings.

    The EU can put and increase tariffs on anything it wants if it thinks it will benefit them. If it wants London's financial business to move to Frankfurt, it could increase tariffs until most of the banks finds its too expensive in London and move. The EU can move to change WTO rules in its favour since its the most powerful economic bloc in the world.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    Even though I favour remaining in the EU, I don't buy the argument that we have to be part of the EU or otherwise we'll be force to comply with all these EU laws and have no say in them.

    Countries like Australia trade extensively with the EU without being part of it. They don't have to change their entire economy to be compliant with EU rules, and in fact the same thing works in the opposite direction; to sell goods into the Australian market the EU has to comply with Australian rules but the EU somehow manages to get by without having a say in Australia's laws and without having to gear its entire economy to complying with its regulations
    Well that's one of the stronger points of out, yes we will have to adhere to their rules when we sell something to them but we do that wherever we sell something. The difference is you then don't need to adhere to those rules in your own country you can set them up how you feel they are most beneficial.




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    (Original post by paul514)
    Well that's one of the stronger points of out, yes we will have to adhere to their rules when we sell something to them but we do that wherever we sell something. The difference is you then don't need to adhere to those rules in your own country you can set them up how you feel they are most beneficial.




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    You are right in saying sales within the UK would not need to conform to other countries' regulations. But if you had a company that exports a substantial percentage of output to a particular country or trading bloc, you would want the regulations at home to be the same as your principal export market in order to reduce costs.

    If the UK wanted to change UK regulations that deviated from the principal export market, UK producers would resist because it would increase costs and if the export country changed regulations, UK producers would lobby for the same changes to be made in the UK.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Ok let's straighten a few things out here.

    Britain can and does trade wherever it likes but it does not do trade on its own terms with countries that have a trade deal with the eu. So whilst what you said is true it needs clarifying.

    Trade deals aren't as simple as favouring the larger economy as different countries have different interests and negotiate on that. If we simply took economy size then the eu just trumps the USA no pun intended and the USA just trumps China yet the eu doesn't get its own way with those nations.

    What's also missed on that point is only the USA, China, Japan and Germany have a larger economy than ourselves so the rest of the world even if your point were true could be screwed by us.

    Your point on trade deficit is disingenuous we buy 60-70 billion more from the eu than they buy from us which puts us in a strong position. We are the eu's biggest export market just trumping the USA. However to use percentages is misleading we sell 40-45% of our stuff to them and they sell 9% to us but the important figure is the actual money not the percentage. No one but the extreme retarded thinks trade will stop and each of the other 27 member states will have their own input into it. Remember their growth is either negative, zero or just positive with a couple of exceptions they simply individually can't afford a reduction in sales to us.




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    You've explained that really well. Good job!

    But let's examine for a minute the remainers' claim that individual EU countries CAN make any trade deals with non-EU countries. If that was the case, there would be nothing to fear from leaving, since we could make deals with the European countries we trade with individually. But like much of what the INers say, it doesn't add up.
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    (Original post by james813)
    You've explained that really well. Good job!

    But let's examine for a minute the remainers' claim that individual EU countries CAN make any trade deals with non-EU countries. If that was the case, there would be nothing to fear from leaving, since we could make deals with the European countries we trade with individually. But like much of what the INers say, it doesn't add up.
    Indeed we could make individual deals in theory


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    (Original post by Alternate Aurora)
    Immigration will stop. UK is full. In the past 20-30 years British native people became minority in many places and schools.
    Bit overly simplistic but there you go...
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    (Original post by Maker)
    You need paragraphs.

    You are naive if you really think nothing will happen for 2 years after Brexit. Businesses will still have to decide whether invest in the UK or in the EU, farmers won't know if they will get their subsidies and British people living in the rest of the EU won't know if they can stay or have a job.

    All the uncertainty will put a damper on businesses and the economy. I think 2 years to sort something as complicated as our relationship with the EU is way too optimistic. I think a more realistic figure is 8 to 10 years and maybe even longer for somethings.

    The EU can put and increase tariffs on anything it wants if it thinks it will benefit them. If it wants London's financial business to move to Frankfurt, it could increase tariffs until most of the banks finds its too expensive in London and move. The EU can move to change WTO rules in its favour since it's the most powerful economic bloc in the world.
    What I am referring to by nothing will happen if we leave the EU for two years is that would trade deals will remain in place. We can use part of the 19 billion pounds to help farmers. With regard to EU citizens there are only about British citizens 1.3 million living in Europe whereas there are 3 million living in the UK it is incredibly unlikely they will lose their rights or be kicked out.

    Getting a trade deal will be fairly easy even Nick Clegg admitted in a debate that we would be able to get access to the single market fairly easily. Additionally, there is currently no country in Europe (not just the EU) apart from Russia that is not part of the single market. So are you seriously proposing that we would not be part of it considering how much we currently trade with the EU. Are you suggesting they will introduce trade barrier out of sheer spite?

    They will be happy with have gone really, so they can carry on with their political integration without us slowing them down.

    Large business's and banks only want to remain in the EU because it is so much easier to lobby to get what they want. As the politicians in the EU are not accountable to us, less than 10% of people know their MP yet alone the members of the European Commission. Most small business's who do actually trade with Europe are restricted by the regulations which cost over 33 billion pounds every year.

    They not are going to try to reduce trade with the UK which is the 5th biggest economy in the world and that we have a massive trade deficit with. Moreover, at the moment we do not have a seat on the WTO the European Commission actually represents us there, if we leave we will be able to actually have a seat at the WTO.
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    The three million figure is misleading as we don't count people in and out of the country they take surveys at random ports and airports and extrapolate those figures to the general population for example only a few hundred thousand people came from the eu using these stats last year yet over 600,000 Europeans applied for their first national insurance number last year.

    The government is blocking a researcher from accessing these figures over any other period of time even though they could fetch them from the system in 5 minutes for a reason


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