Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    Hold on, OP states a vague story, then at the end states she cheated on her BF.
    It appears im the only person with balls not to argue this anonymously.

    I have a strong opinion of false rape accusations, thats all.
    I understand what rape is and when a person has been raped, but when a story is obscured, then, surely you can tell why im on the defensive?

    Nonetheless im getting pebbled by feminazi's and white knights here.
    Don't you understand? NO ONE CARES WHETHER SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND OR NOT. That's NOT the point!

    Can't you read? Even she didn't state that piece information as if it was particularly worrying her. Maybe you should try to improve your reading comprehension.

    Rape victims have boyfriends. You think she is lying to cover up a night of cheating with her boyfriend? That makes you pathetic, the man clearly took advantage of her very drunken state and then later when she sobered up and she REFUSED he did it anyway. That is what the story says, stop pinning your own FALSE accusation on to it.

    Your getting "pebbled" because your claim is stupid. Go do something else with you time rather than spending it on here arguing a possible rape victim is lying about what happened to her. Your the reason people don't go to the police and don't get the justice they deserve.
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    Hold on, OP states a vague story, then at the end states she cheated on her BF.
    It appears im the only person with balls not to argue this anonymously.

    I have a strong opinion of false rape accusations, thats all.
    I understand what rape is and when a person has been raped, but when a story is obscured, then, surely you can tell why im on the defensive?

    Nonetheless im getting pebbled by feminazi's and white knights here.
    It's not vague. She stated in the story that he carried on having sex with her even though she said no.
    Non consensual sex= rape. It doesn't matter if she has a boyfriend/what is happening at the time.
    Why are you refering girls as feminazi's because they are speaking against rape? You don't have to be a feminist to be against rape.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by unprinted)
    She's not 'accused' anyone: she said in the first page that she's not going to the police and there's nowhere near enough info for anyone to know who the man is.



    Even rapists don't agree with you.
    Again, dead point.

    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    1. Don't you understand? NO ONE CARES WHETHER SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND OR NOT. That's NOT the point!

    2. Can't you read? Even she didn't state that piece information as if it was particularly worrying her. Maybe you should try to improve your reading comprehension.

    3. Rape victims have boyfriends. You think she is lying to cover up a night of cheating with her boyfriend? That makes you pathetic, the man clearly took advantage of her very drunken state and then later when she sobered up and she REFUSED he did it anyway. That is what the story says, stop pinning your own FALSE accusation on to it.

    4. Your getting "pebbled" because your claim is stupid. Go do something else with you time rather than spending it on here arguing a possible rape victim is lying about what happened to her. Your the reason people don't go to the police and don't get the justice they deserve.
    1. Thats actually a very big point, because it allows her to justify whether she made a bad drunken decision or not.

    2. Ok, OP casually chucks this in her post:
    "
    And I dont even know if I was up for it or not but most likely not since I didnt even want to do it with my boyfriend when I was sober
    "

    3. Where did I say she was covering up cheating? I mentioned previous times it sounds more like a drunken mistake.

    4. Theres more to it than that. Show me cases of where people have been raped, and they didnt get any justice? (Within last few years).

    Again, I stand by my point, I potentially believe OP made a drunken mistake, many others posted that too but had to delete their post from risk of being gang attacked by feminists or white knights who think they are fighting for the right kind of rights.
    Im happy to continue debating, because I potentially believe my point, until OP posts further evidence, or seeks real help and support, its just going to look like another drunken decision.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Whilst no expert, it sounds like you "consented" the night before, but was raped in the morning. These are 2 separate incidents and people are judging them as one incident. At NO point did you consent in the morning, so that was definitely rape, based on your version of events.
    That being said, if the guy was sober and you were clearly drunk, then surely it was statutory rape the night before
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by Milzime)
    jesus maybe she was spiked? We don't know but that kind of tone doesn't help anyone, what are you hoping to gain? Nice anon by the way
    Please do not sugar coat the situation.

    Spiked where?

    Agree to disagree.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by loveleest)
    It's not vague. She stated in the story that he carried on having sex with her even though she said no.
    Non consensual sex= rape. It doesn't matter if she has a boyfriend/what is happening at the time.
    Why are you refering girls as feminazi's because they are speaking against rape? You don't have to be a feminist to be against rape.
    Im refering them to feminazis due to the sour responses im getting (inb4youstartedit-whichididnt).

    Ok, Im talking to a bunch of brick walls here.
    Im going to LOL when this turns out to be a drunken mistake which is never admitted to.
    I believe this thread is for self-justification for making a drunken mistake.

    Where is OP to add more information? Or perhaps clear the air?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    If you told him to you to your apartment but he went to HIS one then that is rape because he didnt agree with you
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by leinad2012)
    Whilst no expert, it sounds like you "consented" the night before, but was raped in the morning. These are 2 separate incidents and people are judging them as one incident. At NO point did you consent in the morning, so that was definitely rape, based on your version of events.
    That being said, if the guy was sober and you were clearly drunk, then surely it was statutory rape the night before
    I actually retract my previous points and AGREE with this.
    Based on OPs version of events and all.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    Hold on, OP states a vague story, then at the end states she cheated on her BF.
    It appears im the only person with balls not to argue this anonymously.

    I have a strong opinion of false rape accusations, thats all.
    I understand what rape is and when a person has been raped, but when a story is obscured, then, surely you can tell why im on the defensive?

    Nonetheless im getting pebbled by feminazi's and white knights here.
    I think the reason people are getting on your back is; whilst I'm there are false rape accusation because someone has cheated, how does posting a thread about it help their cause in any way? It doesn't help the victim at ALL in any legal way to make a thread on tsr about it? If anything, this is hurting her case socially, because the way op describes it, she consented in the evening (thus cheating on her bf) and then was raped in the morning.
    I'm not really sure how you can come to the conclusion she is shouting rape to avoid it coming to light that she cheated, when she confesses to cheating in the op to begin with?
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    Again, dead point.



    1. Thats actually a very big point, because it allows her to justify whether she made a bad drunken decision or not.

    2. Ok, OP casually chucks this in her post:
    "
    And I dont even know if I was up for it or not but most likely not since I didnt even want to do it with my boyfriend when I was sober
    "

    3. Where did I say she was covering up cheating? I mentioned previous times it sounds more like a drunken mistake.

    4. Theres more to it than that. Show me cases of where people have been raped, and they didnt get any justice? (Within last few years).

    Again, I stand by my point, I potentially believe OP made a drunken mistake, many others posted that too but had to delete their post from risk of being gang attacked by feminists or white knights who think they are fighting for the right kind of rights.
    Im happy to continue debating, because I potentially believe my point, until OP posts further evidence, or seeks real help and support, its just going to look like another drunken decision.
    1. OP doesn't care.

    2. Exactly, OP doesn't care.

    3. Why are you repeating it constantly? like a ****ing parrot.

    4. Go have a read yourself, why should I waste my precious time trying to educate you?


    Alright stand by a point you can't prove. I hope you don't have drunken sex with a girl and it matches the description of OP's night, because believe it or not, that isn't normal. Stop falsely accusing her of something, close down your laptop screen and look out the window.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by leinad2012)
    I think the reason people are getting on your back is; whilst I'm there are false rape accusation because someone has cheated, how does posting a thread about it help their cause in any way? It doesn't help the victim at ALL in any legal way to make a thread on tsr about it? If anything, this is hurting her case socially, because the way op describes it, she consented in the evening (thus cheating on her bf) and then was raped in the morning.
    I'm not really sure how you can come to the conclusion she is shouting rape to avoid it coming to light that she cheated, when she confesses to cheating in the op to begin with?
    The only gain I see out of this is self justification.
    If you got really drunk, conciously did something you regret, your best bet would be to blame it on being drunk.
    Although having sex outside a relationship is taboo, so rape is the next best thing to justify ones feelings (again, not accusing op of lying, just skeptical)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    You were drunk, therefore unable to consent. It was definitely rape. You cried, also points to rape. Rape is NEVER the victim's fault. Even if you seemed willing, it is rape, because you can't give consent when you are drunk.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    1. OP doesn't care.

    2. Exactly, OP doesn't care.

    3. Why are you repeating it constantly? like a ****ing parrot.

    4. Go have a read yourself, why should I waste my precious time trying to educate you?


    Alright stand by a point you can't prove. I hope you don't have drunken sex with a girl and it matches the description of OP's night, because believe it or not, that isn't normal. Stop falsely accusing her of something, close down your laptop screen and look out the window.
    Read what you have written, then come back and read what I have written darling.

    No where I lash out with swear words or hurtful remarks about you or the other people that do not agree with my point.
    Get some manners, come back, and reply <3
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    The only gain I see out of this is self justification.
    If you got really drunk, conciously did something you regret, your best bet would be to blame it on being drunk.
    Although having sex outside a relationship is taboo, so rape is the next best thing to justify ones feelings (again, not accusing op of lying, just skeptical)
    Perhaps, but even ignoring what happened in the evening, what happened in the morning is rape by every definition based on her account. The problem with all threads about this on tsr is people have preconceptions on rape (some will have experienced it and always side with the victim, others like yourself are very aware of false rape accusation and judge every rape accusation with ******** until proven true). Also, you can't really create the scene given op's post. Was she playfully saying no? Did she consent in the morning and go "fine just wear a condom" and then regret it and start crying prompting the "rapist" to stop and then start again? There's too many unknowns reasonable based on the op to come to any reasonable conclusion
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ripjonsnow)

    4. Theres more to it than that. Show me cases of where people have been raped, and they didnt get any justice? (Within last few years).

    Again, I stand by my point, I potentially believe OP made a drunken mistake, many others posted that too but had to delete their post from risk of being gang attacked by feminists or white knights who think they are fighting for the right kind of rights.
    Im happy to continue debating, because I potentially believe my point, until OP posts further evidence, or seeks real help and support, its just going to look like another drunken decision.
    4. Kesha

    If someone is drunk, they can't consent. Simple as. No ifs, ands or buts.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    http://www.loveisrespect.org/content...xual-coercion/

    It's not really a moral argument. What is your definition of force within coercion because repeatedly asking, trying to have sex with someone who is unwilling is a form of force.
    Either we're talking law, or we're talking ethics/your own personal definitions of what construes rape.

    I don't disagree at all with the whole situation being highly unpleasant, and the guy acting unethically. But legally, within the context of rape, we define force as of the physical variety (my usage of the word force probably wasn't appropriate in the context, it'd probably apply more to 'have sex with me or I'll go beat up your friend'). Everyone should want enthusiastic consent, but enthusiastic consent isn't required by the law.

    With the limited information we've been given, the night before has a reasonable doubt legally, in relation to how she consented, how drunk she still was (as we don't know how much time had passed and whether the alcohol was mixed or a literal 1L of vodka) and how drunk he was.

    The morning after, again, with the limited information, there's a reasonable doubt legally - she felt able to say 'no', she seemed to have felt able to leave without threat of violence, and there's a reasonable doubt in regards to consent. We don't know what "he kept trying" means, whether it was physical, or solely verbal, and whether she asked him to put the condom on as a last resort, as she knew he was going to do it anyway, or whether she asked him to do so with him just lying next to her, as an act of consent (legally).

    Again, I think his behaviour was very questionable at best, and he sounds like an ********. But I think with the information given so far, reasonable doubt exists for both occasions.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Actually this year the law defines coercive control outside of the threat of violence. UK law also uses case law in addition to legislation because the legislative procedure can be so lengthy. it's not a case of separating morality from legislation because you have 12 jurors whose morality and ideals impact their interpretation of legislation much like our interpretation differed. And then again you have a judge whose views can impact the interpretation during trial and at sentencing - when they review case law to apply a sentence.

    If it has not been used already then the new law on coercive control is likely to open up avenues for different types of coercion in sexual assault. Unfortunately, lay people don't really have access to cases. Well, certainty not easily but coercion as I have described is used by the CPS in their decision of whether to take to trial or not..coming from the horses mouth.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Joshiii)
    If someone is drunk, they can't consent. Simple as. No ifs, ands or buts.
    So if two drunk people have sex, they both raped each other?

    The law does not say if you have sex with someone who's drunk then you've raped them. The law says if you have sex with someone who is sufficiently intoxicated that they no longer have the capacity to give consent, then it may be rape (I actually disagree with this law, but that's what it says). From a legal standpoint, the fact that the OP asked the guy to use a condom implies that she had an awareness of the risks of unprotected sex. This kind of reasoning would suggest she wasn't sufficiently intoxicated so as to be unable to give consent, and so the act wouldn't be rape.

    What happened the next morning is the contentious bit. The guy asked repeatedly until she eventually gave in to his request. I'm honestly not sure whether or not that counts as rape. It would certainly be reasonable to say that her telling him to wear a condom would count as consent, or rather it would give him grounds to believe consent has been given. As he didn't threaten her into giving consent, I'd imagine this also would not count as rape. Certainly it's pretty despicable, but from what was said it doesn't sound like he forced her into anything.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    Actually this year the law defines coercive control outside of the threat of violence. UK law also uses case law in addition to legislation because the legislative procedure can be so lengthy. it's not a case of separating morality from legislation because you have 12 jurors whose morality and ideals impact their interpretation of legislation much like our interpretation differed. And then again you have a judge whose views can impact the interpretation during trial and at sentencing - when they review case law to apply a sentence.

    If it has not been used already then the new law on coercive control is likely to open up avenues for different types of coercion in sexual assault. Unfortunately, lay people don't really have access to cases. Well, certainty not easily but coercion as I have described is used by the CPS in their decision of whether to take to trial or not..coming from the horses mouth.
    Yeah, and as I've said, I'd be open to seeing any case law you have (though I know how it is, but in the absence of it, we need to go with what we have). The jury will be instructed to follow their interpretation of the legislation, not their morals (and this will hopefully be screened out in voir dire). Even if a jury acts improperly, the second may not. If we conject as to whether a jury will follow legislation rather than their own personal views, then it can have any outcome. Charles Manson could have a jury of wannabe serial killers and get off.

    We can only go with what we know.

    RE CPS, yes, if this was in his file, then if he faced sentencing down the line for rape, this would certainly be an aggravating factor and play against him. But in making a decision to prosecute, the legislation itself has to be looked at.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by JoeTSR)
    That relies on the interpretation of "I kept refusing but he still tried". What does the OP mean by trying? Was this simply asking over and over again, before she finally said "Ok, put on a condom"? Or was it that he got on top of her, pulled his pants down, and she said "please at least use a condom"? The former wouldn't be rape, as far as I can tell, though obviously the latter would.
    He had his pants down and was about to go inside and I DID say something along the lines of "I dont want to - you're forcing me" and that is when I told him to put the condom on and then he forced himself and that's when I kept saying no stop it it hurts but he still kept doing it and whenever I'd cry he'd stop then carry on and that lasted a couple minutes.

    also to some of the people here I really was not worried about what my boyfriend was going to say at the time so no I was not looking for an excuse and I did tell him everything that happened (I did not just say the word rape or that I was raped therefore I did not cheat) and let him decide what it was.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 14, 2016
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.