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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    That's not the argument I made...




    I said that God knows you will burn in hell for eternity even before He created but still decided to create you... imagine creating someone knowing that s/he will be tortured for eternity... you could say, He created certain beings for the sole purpose of being tortured for eternity...




    Unlike you, Georges Lemaitres urged caution when the pope tried use this as propaganda for creationism (much like you're doing now). He, in fact, heavily detested the pope for doing so and he advocated for keeping science out of Catholic theology, something he knew wasn't compatible. Maybe if you are using him so much, you could actually learn from what he... preached (if you will).



    In fact, that is merely an assertion that isn't justified. Maybe life is we know wouldn't exist outside the defined constants, but that doesn't mean life would never have existed.
    To justify such assertion, you need to understand the relative probability of the universe arising from all different constant. And for that, you need to do some sort of probability distribution to actually determine this. Considering that hasn't happened, or maybe never will, we can't know it for certain, despite what it seems like. Without such justification, that assertion is baseless.
    Even I don't know the answer about being burn't for eternity. I don't think anyone knows. I haven't studies much about him but I just knew he was a priest which was used to show that you can believe in God and Science.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    You preach how slavery is sicking which is true but you still buy nike shoes produced by child workers getting paid pennies? The fallen solider thing is a misconception , please search into it properly. Saudi arabia is a ****ed up country and I agree with you there , they dont really represent islam and im talking goverment here not people.
    I'm more of a vans guy. So, we can agree that slavery is wrong and it was wrong for God to let it remain permissible.

    Saudi Arabia abolishing slavery is pretty un-Islamic, glad we agree.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    Well the islamic way of life is the quran and the hadith so anyone who looks up to saudi for religion is completley wrong
    That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    The only forms of evidence for someone who is religious is probably the numinous, miracles, answered prayers, near-death experiences and conversion.

    Also if you grow up in a religious family you look up to authority figures(Parents) or may go to mass and feel the presence of God.
    Which God did you feel? what makes you so sure that it is Jehovah or Yahweh? If you were born in a different country, from different parents, in a different time, your "authority figure" might worship a different God, and hence you would be sure that "the presence" is the other God your family worships in my scenario...

    Confirmation bias isn't objective evidence...
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    If something so complex must have a designer (your argument btw), then God must be even more complex.

    Which goes back to the original argument (what you said), something complex must have a designer, who designed the complex God?
    God must have existed forever (I have no idea if that even made any sense) because God is all-powerful(omnipotent) so only God the almighty could have designed such a complex world.

    That's such a tough question, no one can answer it.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    I'm more of a vans guy. So, we can agree that slavery is wrong and it was wrong for God to let it remain permissible.

    Saudi Arabia abolishing slavery is pretty un-Islamic, glad we agree.
    Just wanted to quickly say none of the arab countries like the Saudi's. None of them can speak out. A 16 year old was killed for protesting.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.
    I am telling you they dont and you are telling me they do? why so arogant for?
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    God must have existed forever (I have no idea if that even made any sense) because God is all-powerful(omnipotent) so only God the almighty could have designed such a complex world.

    That's such a tough question, no one can answer it.
    So special pleading fallacy and circular reasoning...? (that's what it sounds like to me anyway, but if you find it consistent then...)

    Anyways, you're right. I respect your belief, and it is a tough question, so it is best not to open that can of worms again.

    Good day
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    I'm more of a vans guy. So, we can agree that slavery is wrong and it was wrong for God to let it remain permissible.

    Saudi Arabia abolishing slavery is pretty un-Islamic, glad we agree.
    It is islamic though as islam promoted freeing slaves.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    I am telling you they dont and you are telling me they do? why so arogant for?
    You don't even know what arrogant means. :rofl:

    Moreover, because you're wrong.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.
    according to your logic i can see that donald trump will represent america in a couple of months. does that make americans islamophobic, arrogant, and rude like donald trump? No. Similarly 1) the qualities of saudia arabia shouldnt be assumed to be the qualities of ALL muslims.
    2) the doings of terrorists and stupid suicidal groups should not have to do anything with muslims.
    its just not fair that all of us get blamed for doings of a group of people that we have nothing in commom with except that they call themselves "muslims". get your facts right before i die of peoples arrogance and ignorance
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    (Original post by Bliss_)
    according to your logic i can see that donald trump will represent america in a couple of months. does that make americans islamophobic, arrogant, and rude like donald trump? No. Similarly 1) the qualities of saudia arabia shouldnt be assumed to be the qualities of ALL muslims.
    2) the doings of terrorists and stupid suicidal groups should not have to do anything with muslims.
    its just not fair that all of us get blamed for doings of a group of people that we have nothing in commom with except that they call themselves "muslims". get your facts right before i die of peoples arrogance and ignorance
    That wasn't the argument being made - the argument being made was that the President can be seen to represent the United States of America. I did not say that representation was accurate and I think we can all agree that representation in the Middle East is a bit different to what it is in the West.

    The funniest thing about this is you're completely bashing me for something I not only never said but spend a lot of time on here arguing for! I am one of few users who consistently slams anti-muslim rhetoric and argues exactly what you have just said about tarring all with the same brush. As such, I completely resent your ignorant and unreasonable tone.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    It is islamic though as islam promoted freeing slaves.
    So, having a slave today 31st may 2016 are people still allowed to own slaves? Yes. The fact that the prophet promoted freeing slaves doesn't really redeem it. What about all those that were slaves over the years? Don't they matter, they had their own lives and ambitions cut because they had to serve their masters. If the prophet came today, a lot of Islam would be different, so to say Islam is timeless Imo is wrong
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.
    The Saud family represent egocentric maniacs that can only be wrought out from greed and capitalism and in now way are their actions Islamic. Are they caliphs?
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    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    The Saud family represent egocentric maniacs that can only be wrought out from greed and capitalism and in now way are their actions Islamic. Are they caliphs?
    Again you, like Bliss_, are completely misinterpreting my comments.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    That wasn't the argument being made - the argument being made was that the President can be seen to represent the United States of America. I did not say that representation was accurate and I think we can all agree that representation in the Middle East is a bit different to what it is in the West.

    The funniest thing about this is you're completely bashing me for something I not only never said but spend a lot of time on here arguing for! I am one of few users who consistently slams anti-muslim rhetoric and argues exactly what you have just said about tarring all with the same brush. As such, I completely resent your ignorant and unreasonable tone.
    Talking about the homophobic subject. I watch lots of youtube videos, so i stumbled upon Riyadh K. Riyadh is a muslim who is gay which is shocking to most people. His mothers English and Father's Iraqi. At first his father wanted to commit suicide but soon pushed away and loved his son even though Riyadh is gay.
    Proof
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbDCl5pcpz0
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    So, having a slave today 31st may 2016 are people still allowed to own slaves? Yes. The fact that the prophet promoted freeing slaves doesn't really redeem it. What about all those that were slaves over the years? Don't they matter, they had their own lives and ambitions cut because they had to serve their masters. If the prophet came today, a lot of Islam would be different, so to say Islam is timeless Imo is wrong
    Read this please https://islamqa.info/en/94840
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    Talking about the homophobic subject. I watch lots of youtube videos, so i stumbled upon Riyadh K. Riyadh is a muslim who is gay which is shocking to most people. His mothers English and Father's Iraqi. At first his father wanted to commit suicide but soon pushed away and loved his son even though Riyadh is gay.
    Proof
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbDCl5pcpz0
    Yes, and? I didn't say anything the individuals, I was referring to the ideology. My best friend and his family are muslims... I am gay... never met a nicer group of people.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    That wasn't the argument being made - the argument being made was that the President can be seen to represent the United States of America. I did not say that representation was accurate and I think we can all agree that representation in the Middle East is a bit different to what it is in the West.

    The funniest thing about this is you're completely bashing me for something I not only never said but spend a lot of time on here arguing for! I am one of few users who consistently slams anti-muslim rhetoric and argues exactly what you have just said about tarring all with the same brush. As such, I completely resent your ignorant and unreasonable tone.
    I dont understand how i was unreasonable and ignorant just cause what you wrote probably didnt match with what you meant and lead to you thing 2 people didnt get what you were tryna say. Anywho, i'd like to end this on a lighter note by saying thanks for slamming anti-muslim rhetoric. good day pal
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    Which God did you feel? what makes you so sure that it is Jehovah or Yahweh? If you were born in a different country, from different parents, in a different time, your "authority figure" might worship a different God, and hence you would be sure that "the presence" is the other God your family worships in my scenario...

    Confirmation bias isn't objective evidence...
    However, your point is can be ignored and is incorrect to some extent as not only religious exclusivism (pertaining to religion exists) as inclusivism and religious pluralism exists as well.
 
 
 
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