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    (Original post by Onde)
    Rather difficult when even the earliest fragments of the qur'an probably do not date to as "early" as that.
    Where is the concrete evidence??? I see none.
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    (Original post by ovo_zverit)

    A "pedo camel thief"?
    Please I beg you not to say anything further. Simply because I don't want you to look like a fool. Define a hypocritical person, yeah? ;D
    Yes 'old mo the pedo camel thief' (hate to break this to you but a lot of non muslim hold this opinion)

    I'm confident in my opinion and how it's formed

    'Define a hypocritical person, yeah?' that's simple ---- You.
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    (Original post by Onde)

    The percentage of adherents that are peaceful has no bearing on whether the religion is actually peaceful in content.
    It is of course argument ad populim

    Negated very easily really
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    [QUOTE=Onde;64989505]
    (Original post by ovo_zverit)

    The percentage of adherents that are peaceful has no bearing on whether the religion is actually peaceful in content.

    With Islam, it was founded by a warlord who attempted to conquer the world with bloody imperial conquests with the ambition of forming an authoritarian state where the punishment for public dissent was to brutally murdered. In order to be a Muslim, the first tenet of Islam involves you accepting Muhammad as the messenger of god, and thus your ideological leader. It is thus very rare for Muslims to say anything negative about Muhammad, despite his many faults, or to clarify how the the continuous Islamic attempts at imperialism over the last 1300 years and more are no longer applicable.
    You have 0 knowledge of Islam, and yet a billion things to say about the religion. Funny. I'm sure you'll understand one day, or you won't. Either way, I don't think I'd care.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    No, why?
    How can you not be a believer but claim Mary was a virgin if she gave birth to Jesus?
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Yes 'old mo the pedo camel thief' (hate to break this to you but a lot of non muslim hold this opinion)

    I'm confident in my opinion and how it's formed

    'Define a hypocritical person, yeah?' that's simple ---- You.
    A lot of Non-Muslim's hold that opinion? When did you carry out that survey? Can I see the results? Exactly what percentage believe that? Or is just you and a few others, a minority? Just like terrorists, a minority.

    Confidence in an opinion doesn't matter. It's not fact. So you won't admit that calling The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) a "pedo camel thief" is derogatory?
    If you don't admit, then you're a hypocrite. Sorry to break it to you, but a lot of the worlds population would hold this opinion.
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    (Original post by Onde)
    The qur'an and the early hadith permitted Muslim men to have sex with children, and many Muslims over the last 1300+ years have done so as a result. In addition, the early hadith state that Aisha was a child of nine years of age who played with dolls at the time that Muhammad first had sex with her: Aisha's own testimony state this was the case.
    Post the verse from the Qur'an that states that.
    Post Aisha's testimony statement.

    Concrete evidence?????
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    (Original post by Onde)
    Untrue. I know for example, that by the account of Muhammad and his early followers, Muhammad carried out or condoned continuous global war and imperialism, the genocide of those who do not convert to Islam, brutal murder (of apostates, atheists, polytheists, pagans, people of the wrong branch of Islam, homosexuals, adulterers, those who publicly contradict Islam etc.), slavery, rape, torture, paedophilia etc.
    Post the account.
    Or were you there to witness it? You have 0 evidence, sorry.
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    (Original post by ovo_zverit)
    Please provide sufficient evidence, as to how Muhammed (pbuh) was "evil", as it can be easily determined.

    Are you religious in any way?????
    If not, then you're just a tad biased.
    In what way is Islam and evil ideology? You cannot know that unless you practise the religion. So your point is irrelevant.
    Wait, huh??? Would I have to practice Nazism to know that it is evil?
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    How can you not be a believer but claim Mary was a virgin if she gave birth to Jesus?
    In my opinion that never happened.

    But if you believe it happened and believe the stories, then you must accept that she was a virgin.

    So for arguments sake you do not have to believe, just be logically consistent given the premise it happened.
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    (Original post by ovo_zverit)
    A lot of Non-Muslim's hold that opinion? When did you carry out that survey? Can I see the results? Exactly what percentage believe that? Or is just you and a few others, a minority? Just like terrorists, a minority.

    Confidence in an opinion doesn't matter. It's not fact. So you won't admit that calling The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) a "pedo camel thief" is derogatory?
    If you don't admit, then you're a hypocrite. Sorry to break it to you, but a lot of the worlds population would hold this opinion.
    You'll learn this soon enough if you talk to non Muslim about their opinion of old mo. You'll see its never favorable

    Ah but I didn't come here trying to claim the high moral ground while using derogatory terms towards TSR Posters (which you did)

    But I can see you are resorting to childish arguments to try and hide that your
    hypocrisy has been exposed
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    (Original post by Onde)
    I think the point is, the bible did not say it was permissible for anybody to have sex with Mary, nevermind at 12 years of age.

    It is actually possible to get pregnant without having sex, but that''s another matter.
    I understand that. It just seems he was looking at it from a historical perspective.
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    (Original post by animus1)
    Wait, huh??? Would I have to practice Nazism to know that it is evil?
    No you wouldn't, because there is sufficient evidence showing that Nazism is evil.
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    (Original post by Onde)
    The percentage of adherents that are peaceful has no bearing on whether the religion is actually peaceful in content.

    With Islam, it was founded by a warlord who attempted to conquer the world with bloody imperial conquests with the ambition of forming an authoritarian state where the punishment for public dissent was to brutally murdered. In order to be a Muslim, the first tenet of Islam involves you accepting Muhammad as the messenger of god, and thus your ideological leader. It is thus very rare for Muslims to say anything negative about Muhammad, despite his many faults, or to clarify how the the continuous Islamic attempts at imperialism over the last 1300 years and more are no longer applicable.
    Very well said, mate.

    One of the biggest ironies is that in the Islamic texts they mention how Mohammed's wives used to joke about how he would suddenly have a "revelation" from Allah that conveniently happened to be whatever he wanted at the time. It's obscene that something that even at the time they knew was ludicrous has spawned a giant religion that reveres this desert charlatan and killer.

    If anything puts the lie to the Islamic claims of Mohammed the beneficent, the merciful, it's his treatment of the Jewish Banu Qurayzah tribe. This Jewish tribe of merchants were sheltering in the mini-fortress they had built, the entire tribe; men, women and children, about a thousand in total if I recall correctly.

    Mohammed brings up his army of 4,000 bloodthirsty, hardened warriors and storms the fortress. He orders all the males who have hit puberty to the very eldest be executed (basically murdering every male from 14 to 80). The women and children are enslaved, and forcibly converted. That's pretty much exactly what ISIS do to the Yezidis. Also, at the time of Mohammed Jews were 40% of the population of Arabia; there had been a Jewish kingdom in southern Arabia too. Fast forward to today and there are no Jews in Arabia; now ISIS attempts the same cleansing of Northern Iraq to wipe out its non-Muslim ethnicities like the Assyrians, the Chaldeans, the Yezidis... where is the outrage for that in the Muslim world? The silence is haunting

    For Muslims to revere this man indicates either a total want of critical, ethical thought or a total want of basic knowledge even of their own religion. Either way, it stinks
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    You'll learn this soon enough if you talk to non Muslim about their opinion of old mo. You'll see its never favorable

    Ah but I didn't come here trying to claim the high moral ground while using derogatory terms towards TSR Posters (which you did)

    But I can see you are resorting to childish arguments to try and hide that your
    hypocrisy has been exposed

    Most of my friends are Non-Muslims. They have 0 problems with my religious beliefs and they certainly don't go around disrespecting or criticising a religious idea or person, without having concrete evidence to show that it/they should be criticised. If anything, they always want to understand and learn more about my religion and it's truth. You should try that some day.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    In my opinion that never happened.

    But if you believe it happened and believe the stories, then you must accept that she was a virgin.

    So for arguments sake you do not have to believe, just be logically consistent given the premise it happened.
    Oh right. I thought you were speaking from your own beliefs. My mistake.
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    (Original post by ovo_zverit)
    No you wouldn't, because there is sufficient evidence showing that Nazism is evil.
    Unfortunately, the same is true with Islam.
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    (Original post by ovo_zverit)
    Confidence in an opinion doesn't matter. It's not fact. So you won't admit that calling The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) a "pedo camel thief" is derogatory?
    Can something be considered derogatory if it's true? Do you deny the essential truth of that statement?

    Earlier on Mohammed was a bandit and raider, which no doubt would have included appropriating other people's beasts of burden like camels. He also married (and consummated) to a 9 year old girl.

    It seems to me that if the statement is true, it cannot be considered derogatory; the offence, such as it has been taken, is on behalf of those Muslim adherents who are embarrassed by the facts of their religion's founder. The ignominy attaches to them, not to the one who repeats this statement
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    (Original post by Onde)
    Why is only the qur'an considered "concrete evidence", especially when possibly no copy exists in the timeframe you gave?

    All the evidence of the earliest extant pro-Muhammadian propaganda say that Muhammad had sex with a nine year old girl, and no Muslim, not even Allah, found issue with those accounts in the several hundred years after Muhammad had sex with a child.

    Can you thus disprove that Muhammad had sex with a child? Can you cite the verse in the qur'an that disproves this? Can you even find one contemporary source that says that Muhammad wasn't stimulated by the body of a nine year old girl?
    No copy exists from that time, because it wouldn't survive through the ages? Use some common sense. The Qur'an has been copied word for word since the day of its revelation, and since then even more copies have been made. But never have the words been twisted, from what Allah originally said. Simply because this would be a very haram deed.
    "All the evidence of the earliest pro-Muhammedian propaganda"??? Where is this??? Post it.

    Not even Allah found issue with those accounts?? How do you know??? Did Allah tell you?? Yes, I can disprove that. Can you post the evidence which says that Muhammed was stimulated by the body of a 9 year old girl????
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    (Original post by ovo_zverit)
    I'll see that it's "never" favourable??? Is that what you gathered from your group of uncultured and unethical friends? Niceeee ;D
    If you can't conduct a conversation without becoming abusive, perhaps you should reconsider your participation.

    My hypocrisy has been exposed? Hahaha, your hypocrisy was exposed the day you came out the womb.
    Again with the abuse and the ad hominems. Try to direct yourself to the point he made.

    If anything, they always want to understand and learn more about my religion and it's truth. You should try that some day.
    The more I learn about Islam the more it confirms my worst fears. The characterisation of Mohammed as a camel pilferer with a taste for underage girls is an accurate one; do you deny it?
 
 
 
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