There is no evidence for God

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    (Original post by WhereIsTheLove??)
    hmm... I am quite curious about your point of view...

    So what do you think if say someone (like a terrorist) is murdering, but wholeheartedly believes that they are doing the right thing (probably due to brainwashing). Are they doing the right thing because they think it is the right thing?

    I agree with you, to a certain extent, that morality is subjective and would be curious to see (and yet hope I never do see) a case where a child has been brought up being told that murder is right, to see if they can ever learn it is wrong without being told so...

    Interesting bit of philosophy...
    Well I'd see murder as wrong and they'd see it as right, that's the point. Subjective morals cannot make objective moral statements, they must necessary depend on who you're asking.
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    (Original post by Paranoid_Glitch)
    No but because you have sinned. I can't say i have all the answers but from most of the passages i have read from the Bible, i have concluded it has an answer to almost any question you could ask.
    So what have I done that warrants me being tortured for eternity?
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    (Original post by Mikaela!)
    I believe there is evidence that God (Jesus Christ) exists.
    And what i find interesting is that humans hold a lot of 'faith'
    You have faith that you are breathing in oxygen yet you can't see it?
    You believe that there is wind yet you can't necessarily see that?

    Truth is you believe with faith that you will breathe in something you can't see to stay alive,
    I believe there is a God because of the beautiful world we live in,where did it come from and how did it come about?
    Both oxygen and wind can be physically and empirically detected, God cannot.
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    (Original post by Rather_Cynical)
    That's not similar at all. Oxygen has distinct chemical and physical properties, you don't need to believe in something contrary to reason for metabolic processes to work. I don't need to believe in wind for the physical forces of the moving fluid to exert pressures and perform ecological and climate-based roles.

    The conviction in religious conjecture has none of that, just some very deluded people - some of whom want to invade the rest of the world.

    EDIT - it looks like you believe in God because you're undereducated/underinformed about science. That's not a good reason to believe at all
    Sorry?
    Lol i'm not a scientist nor do i need to be one to know that oxygen does not come from nothing. Neither does the vast majority of nature.

    Everything comes from something, yes wind and oxygen has properties to prove them to be existent, but where do these properties come from?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well I'd see murder as wrong and they'd see it as right, that's the point. Subjective morals cannot make objective moral statements, they must necessary depend on who you're asking.
    But if this was true, how could we justify a justice system?
    The murderer would be like 'you can't punish me cuz I did the right thing'
    yet the judge would be like 'yeah but I think it is wrong. So there!'

    Wouldn't this mean that some peoples opinions matter more than others?
    Which would be unfair... or at least I think it is...
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    (Original post by WhereIsTheLove??)
    But if this was true, how could we justify a justice system?
    The murderer would be like 'you can't punish me cuz I did the right thing'
    yet the judge would be like 'yeah but I think it is wrong. So there!'

    Wouldn't this mean that some peoples opinions matter more than others?
    Which would be unfair... or at least I think it is...
    The main function of law is to maintain a coherent society. Morality is just an afterthought

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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Or they just had no idea what they were doing in the world and a ritual gave them some sort of reassurance that all would be well.

    Typical theist blindness. "Thank you God" or "miracle" when something unexpectedly good happens, but no "damn you god" every time something bad happens. Instead just "it was his wish, who am i to question his wish".

    Confirmation bias is such a *****.
    What has that got to do with anything!

    Typical ignorance right here. People like you always come up with an excuse to undermine people who believe in something different.
    The truth is we dont know anything about this place we live in and for you to conclude that there is nothing higher, I pity you. I respect atheists, in fact I respect anyone irrespective of their beliefs, but what I dont like is when some atheists treat people who believe in God as fools. Who are you and what have you done to think that you can just blindly tell people that there is no God.

    I have no time for extreme atheists.
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    (Original post by Pra99)
    "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"- Carl Sagan.

    We shouldnt just rule out the possibility of a higher power, when we know next to nothing about the universe.
    The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous.But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe then
    Clearly there is such a god.This god is emotionally unsatisfying it doesnt make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.

    - carl sagan

    "How is it that hardly any religion has looked at science and concluded this is better than we thought!
    The universe is much bigger than our prophets said,grander more subtle more elegant?Instead they say No no no! My god is a little god and I want him to stay that way."
    - carl sagan

    Sagan is the very last person you should use to back up your argument.He was very much not a believer.
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    (Original post by Mikaela!)
    Sorry?
    Lol i'm not a scientist nor do i need to be one to know that oxygen does not come from nothing. Neither does the vast majority of nature.

    Everything comes from something, yes wind and oxygen has properties to prove them to be existent, but where do these properties come from?
    I'm not sure if you're arguing against the natural processes that has led to the formation of the elements, or what precisely you're talking about. The questions are asked in such a loose and ambiguous way that it can't be clearly answered. Any specific properties you want discussed?

    If it's the nature of matter, then we refer you to the fundamental forces. If it's the nature of the fundamental forces, then we simply refer to the mathematical nature of what we observe and there is no real reason humanity is aware of for those forces to exist other than that if they hadn't then no observer could emerge to ask the question.

    If you're asking a more basic question about how the chemicals of the periodic table form, see Wiki pages of astrophysics and nuclear fusion. If it's about why chemicals react the way they do, then read into chemistry and the geometries of electron orbitals.

    If it's about why life exists, break down what life is about (conversion of energy using metabolic processes to proliferate a genome). If it's about the variation of species, then read into evolutionary niches. If it's about evolution by natural selection, read into the origin of species and perhaps some statistical theory.

    It's not all that clear what you're trying to get at, so no further discussion could really be had.
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    (Original post by Pra99)
    What has that got to do with anything!

    Typical ignorance right here. People like you always come up with an excuse to undermine people who believe in something different.
    The truth is we dont know anything about this place we live in and for you to conclude that there is nothing higher, I pity you. I respect atheists, in fact I respect anyone irrespective of their beliefs, but what I dont like is when some atheists treat people who believe in God as fools. Who are you and what have you done to think that you can just blindly tell people that there is no God.

    I have no time for extreme atheists.
    Who are you to tell people that there is a God?

    There is zero evidence for one, and plenty of evidence against. Anyone capable of rational thought can see who the fool is.
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    (Original post by Pra99)
    "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"- Carl Sagan.

    We shouldnt just rule out the possibility of a higher power, when we know next to nothing about the universe.
    There are other things we know a priori - things that we don't even need evidence for to dismiss or accept it. If the definition of a bachelor is unmarried man, then we know that it's not possible to be a married bachelor.

    If any of the properties of God are self-contraditory, then it's not possible for that version of God to exist. Omnipotence is one to quickly dismiss because it requires infinite energies, and certain properties of it became paradoxical and therefore cannot be true. Omnibenevolence is one that doesn't work in zero-sum interactions.

    God's plan and Free Will doesn't work very well together. I'm just listing these off the top of my head without reading too deeply into the theoretical and philosophic criticisms of God, which I'm sure there are plenty of.

    From our current understanding, whilst we might not be able to rule out a higher power as a whole, we can almost certainly rule out the versions in modern holy scripture and have no reason to be convinced of any deity whatsoever.
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    (Original post by Rather_Cynical)
    I'm not sure if you're arguing against the natural processes that has led to the formation of the elements, or what precisely you're talking about. The questions are asked in such a loose and ambiguous way that it can't be clearly answered. Any specific properties you want discussed?

    If it's the nature of matter, then we refer you to the fundamental forces. If it's the nature of the fundamental forces, then we simply refer to the mathematical nature of what we observe and there is no real reason humanity is aware of for those forces to exist other than that if they hadn't then no observer could emerge to ask the question.

    If you're asking a more basic question about how the chemicals of the periodic table form, see Wiki pages of astrophysics and nuclear fusion. If it's about why chemicals react the way they do, then read into chemistry and the geometries of electron orbitals.

    If it's about why life exists, break down what life is about (conversion of energy using metabolic processes to proliferate a genome). If it's about the variation of species, then read into evolutionary niches. If it's about evolution by natural selection, read into the origin of species and perhaps some statistical theory.

    It's not all that clear what you're trying to get at, so no further discussion could really be had.
    What natural process has led to the formation of elements exactly?
    The forces you talk about, where do they come from? (Not a trick question, but please let me know)

    You are telling me why life exists and what life is about by referring to more science jargon,
    So i exist because of more physical forces, okay : ) ? Okay then what?

    If humanity wasn't aware that these forces existed, then quite frankly there would be no humanity.
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    Organised religion is unfortunately a method of controlling the masses. Religion is used to shape a person's moral conduct, beliefs and sense of identity. By nature humans are extremely curious, and we have not always known the answers that we now have. Because of this nature it frustrates us when we don't know or understand something. The biggest question of all - where did the universe originate from? - has frustrated us since the beginning of human conscience and religion was created as a basis to give us some satisfaction to questions like this that we don't have an answer to.

    There is no proof of any god in this universe, and coming back with "there's no proof god doesn't exist" is a deflection of the lack of the proof that we have always searched for as a species. It's silly.

    Religion in itself is not neccessarily problematic. Religion gives many people a sense of purpose and understanding which is positive. However, the problem with religion lies in how often it has been used as a method of inciting fear, aggression and control by those who cannot live if they don't retain more power than others.
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    (Original post by Mikaela!)
    What natural process has led to the formation of elements exactly?
    The forces you talk about, where do they come from? (Not a trick question, but please let me know)

    You are telling me why life exists and what life is about by referring to more science jargon,
    So i exist because of more physical forces, okay : ) ? Okay then what?

    If humanity wasn't aware that these forces existed, then quite frankly there would be no humanity.
    The formation of elements was caused by nuclear fusion in the hearts of stars.Stars under intense heat and pressure force lighter nuclei into heavier nuclei.So hydrogen nuclei are forced together to make helium nuclei.Heavier elements are made in high mass stars before they go supernova.Its not known how exactly life got started but there is no reason to evoke a supernatural explanation.Evolution just describes the process by which species are tranaformed into other species over time and there is a lot of evidence for it.Thats why everything has Dna and why lota of animals have two eyes and four legs because they origionally came from the same thing.
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    religion and believing in god is a way for some people to have meaning in their lives it makes them feel good to know that there i life after because their current life is ****
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    (Original post by Alexion)
    **** what do I say to this?
    Aha! Submit to me you tiny atheist scum. You are no match for my rational arguments full of logic and reason, backed up by empirical evidence.
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    (Original post by Mikaela!)
    What natural process has led to the formation of elements exactly?
    The forces you talk about, where do they come from? (Not a trick question, but please let me know)

    You are telling me why life exists and what life is about by referring to more science jargon,
    So i exist because of more physical forces, okay : ) ? Okay then what?

    If humanity wasn't aware that these forces existed, then quite frankly there would be no humanity.
    I assume you know at least a little about what a chemical is, and at least a little about nuclear structure.

    If we have a huge cloud of hydrogen gas in space, and it was spread out perfectly evenly, then galaxies won't form because the forces would be perfectly canceled in every direction. The Universe was not spread out perfectly evenly, so the slightly more dense regions started attracting the less dense regions.

    After a while, millions of years later, it can get dense enough and hot enough from all the moving about that the middle parts of these atoms called nuclei can smash together even though their charges are the same (think how hard it is to push two strong magnets together, same poles). A star is born.

    These stars are factories that turn lighter elements into heavier elements, with a particular force called the Strong Nuclear Force. These stars change hydrogen into helium by changing their nuclear structure. And when these stars die and other stars made of helium form, they form heavier elements until it reaches iron (which doesn't require extra energy to do, lighter elements want to form heavier elements).

    The heavier elements after that need energy to fuse together, you can't just convince them to do it on their own. The more massive stars happen to be quite good at that, as they can implode and explode. These form the elements on the periodic table.

    If you have a bunch of this material around in space, they'd attract eachother and form planets. The Earth is one of them, with lots of elements that react with eachother to form stable compounds.

    The precise way life itself emerged out of that, we're not really sure. But we know that all it would take is one molecule that can self-replicate and carry information, and use up the available energy outside to form life.

    At that point, it becomes a matter of fulfilling whatever evolutionary roles are available (like taking up whatever job needs doing) because these creatures would be able to live when they do, and die out if they don't. Mammals at some point became a dominant species, and intelligence was clearly a trait that has advantages.

    With agriculture, we eventually settled down and developed the highly complex societies we have today. So what does that mean in terms of life's purpose? I suppose to continue the legacy and make society better, but it can be more or less self-defined.

    The most unique thing in the entire Universe that we know of, capable of complex experiences, is us. In that sense, we should live to maximise happiness and reduce suffering, live to experience what the world has to offer, and to better the world in what little way we can.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    The formation of elements was caused by nuclear fusion in the hearts of stars.Stars under intense heat and pressure force lighter nuclei into heavier nuclei.So hydrogen nuclei are forced together to make helium nuclei.Heavier elements are made in high mass stars before they go supernova.Its not known how exactly life got started but there is no reason to evoke a supernatural explanation.Evolution just describes the process by which species are tranaformed into other species over time and there is a lot of evidence for it.Thats why everything has Dna and why lota of animals have two eyes and four legs because they origionally came from the same thing.
    Okay : ) Where do stars come from? : )

    You are now telling me about evolution and species transforming

    But where did the first specie of a particular form of nature come from to be transformed and evolve?
    I am not evoking a ' A supernatural explanation', i know there is one.

    Everything has to come from something,nothing comes from nothing.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Well my parents are religious but not Christians. I came to Christ after reading about the word of God on the Internet and in school RE lessons.
    Amen.
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    (Original post by Paranoid_Glitch)
    Because i believe it's not just about me. I want to motivate and inspire as much people as i can to get to know God. No one would want to go to Hell so i want to try my best to convince them of the existence of God, help them overcome their unbelief and have faith in God, trust him and love him and hopefully they can be saved and be relinquished of their sin. "Do not neglect to do good" .
    If god exists, why the hell would anyone want to love and trust that sadistic as*wipe? We're talking about a being so evil that it's prepared to wipe out 99.999999...ad infinitum percent of all living things on Earth simply because not enough primates worshiped it. I'm sure you agree that genocide is completely f*cked up, but why then do you think it's acceptable for your god to do it? Face it, your god is a psychopathic d*ckhead with severe anger management problems. I'm sorry, there's just no way of softening it, your god is plain evil.

    That brings up an interesting point actually, which I'm sure will infuriate lots of theists on this forum. According to the Dhammapada, an important part of the Pali Canon (Buddhism's equivalent of the Bible), those who conquer their own emotions and are thereby freed of all anger/hatred/sorrow/whatever negative emotions they have are looked up to even by gods, because they've transcended the negative feelings which even gods are slaves to. Now I don't believe in any gods but assuming for a moment that your god exists, clearly he is neither omnibenevolent nor omnipotent as he doesn't have control over what Buddhists call Mara - the embodiment of all negative emotions, a being of pure evil. Honestly it's quite fun to compare the holy texts of Christianity/Islam/whatever with that of a religion who's name means "religion of peace," or maybe I just have a weird sense of fun, after all studying theology is quite an unusual hobby.

    So that really does beg the question, why would you choose to follow your god at all, especially when your own holy book describes in great detail the horrific acts your god is capable of? I can't fathom it at all, it's like choosing to drink botulinum toxin instead of lemonade!
 
 
 
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