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Chinese airline warns passengers about London areas populated by Pakistanis & blacks Watch

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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    I thought tolerance was one of the core values of British culture.
    It is

    But like most things it can be stretched and taken advantage of (and at that point we are know to become a little tetchy)
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I don't need to just like you wouldn't define Caribbean culture (which given it's nature would be much harder to define than mine)

    It's usual only racists who deride other peoples culture

    But no I've made no mention of skin colour in my posts I'm simply defending my culture from racists and bigots who claim we don't have one.
    I'm Caribbean and would really like to know what you mean by that?

    It's really not difficult to define at all tbh :dontknow: There's so many branches of music (dancehall, soca, zouk). Different cultural foods, religion is largely christian. Wedding ceremony's are cultural as well etc. I can easily define Caribbean culture.

    Surely you can do the same
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    thing is you don't get to tell me what my culture is nor do I have to explain to you what it is.
    No one has said they're telling you what your culture is though. That's a strawman.

    And no. I'm not forcing you to do anything. It's an innocent question. If you can't give an answer (or don't know yourself) then most of what you've been saying in this thread is pointless. Surely a patriotic brit like you should have no problem educating TSR members on british culture. What are these black/indian/pakistani families not doing that they should be? Will you say it's watching easterners? Or eating fish and chips?

    If you realise that you yourself don't know what british culture is, just say so instead of dragging this on.
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    (Original post by Tai Ga)

    Surely you can do the same
    I doubt he can. Hes now resorted to "I know but I don't want/have to tell you!!!!"

    Eventually he'll give in, then list some stuff that lots of black/pakistani/indian residents do anyway.
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    the airline apologised, so all u idiots trying to justify what they did can give up now


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    (Original post by L'absurde)
    Agree to disagree, they're still Indian.

    It's not race exactly. These people might have families who've lived here for generations but that's beside the point. Do they have a right to live here? Sure. Are they truly British? No. Just as being Indian is more than a document, it's about the culture, language, heritage, racial identity etc (Same rule applies to eastern Europeans for example).
    And why should a Hindu not be British, when Paganism was here for eons before Christianity? When we are a mix of Basque, Viking, Roman etc? Eastern religions are in many ways more advanced and civilized.

    I find people with your view very narrow and conservative. What you actually describe is not a unique Britishness, but a mere white christian European culture that is fairly generic.
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    (Original post by Tai Ga)
    I'm Caribbean and would really like to know what you mean by that?

    It's really not difficult to define at all tbh :dontknow: There's so many branches of music (dancehall, soca, zouk). Different cultural foods, religion is largely christian. Wedding ceremony's are cultural as well etc. I can easily define Caribbean culture.

    Surely you can do the same
    Food's awesome. I make it loads and I'm white British.
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    (Original post by Tai Ga)
    Define British culture.
    British culture encompases all of the great things the UK has given to the world, as well as the values and traditions of its people.. see:*

    - British food - pasties, roast dinners, fish and chips etc.*
    - British original sports - football, rugby, cricket etc.*
    - British music - the beatles, brit pop, 60s-70s rock, grime, etc.*
    - British art - Hugely influencial artists over the past years ranging from Pollock to Banksy*
    - British education, a historic pioneer of university education and scietntific research, still boasts a highly disproportionate number of top universities for a contry our size.
    - British politics - one of the first modern representative democracies, paved the way for many to follow*
    - British monarchy - one of the few left in the world, and one of the most respected/observed
    - British attitudes / mindset, english gentlemen, stiff upper lip, resolve under pressure, manners and politeness
    - British working class communities, cockneys in london, scousers, brummy, all with their own micro cultures and traditions
    - the British language, oxford english, Recieved pronounciation, the standard second and business language of the world..
    - British writers, which could arguably stake a claim as some of the best ever, ranging from shakespear all the way to modern times and J.K.Rowling rulling the litterary scene
    - British history, both good and bad, our tendancy towards war and violence.. but also our love for inovation and development.. the industrial revolution, the empire, kings and queens, knights, the spanish amada, the magna carter, henry 8th, and so much more
    - British charitable spirit.. one of the most charitable nations out there, both govermentally and in person.
    - Morris dancing, Maypolls, Fates, Worm charming, cheese rolling, and so many local traditions
    - Pubs and pub culture
    - Ale, Cider, Beer, and the way we like to drink it
    - Our media, world famous cultrual icons like James bond, Dr. Who, Sherlock Holmes, Harry potter
    - Our miriad of local slang
    - Our love and obsessions as a country, our national past times: gardening, dog walking, baking,
    - The first national healthcare system, and a top class benifit system
    - The BBC, Children in need, Red Noes day, Stricly come dancing, The Bake off, and so much more wierd british culture
    - Our Overly polite modesty,*
    - Our Humour, being truelly different from many other cultures
    - Our architecture with great buildings spanning many centuries
    - Our geography, our obession with the weather, love of rain, grey skies, boring landscapes, never to hot, never to cold, always in the middle, always complaining
    - Christianity, and our continuation of church traditions even whilst becoming a more secular country
    - Our constant embrace and adoption of other cultures, and our acceptance of their people and way of life
    - Our bendy roads, backwards organisation, and the way we still insist on using two measurement systems simultaniously, dispite it making no sense to do so..
    - Our famous influcial figures - Byron, churchil, thatcher, and onwards
    - Our festivals, May day, Guy fawkes day, Pancake Day
    - Afternoon Tea, High Tea, Cream Tea, always needing a Cup of tea ready if anyone comes round to visit

    I could go on and on, and as an english person I have barely even touched upon welsh, scotish and nother irish cultrual aspects..*

    Serriously, if you live in this country, one of the oldest countries on the plannet with a long rich history that stretches back through so many fascinating times.. A country that is hugely diverse for its tiny size, and packs so many regional differences, local traditions and cultural herratige. If you live here, and you dont have a clear idea of what the culture is, then either your living with your eyes shut, or you are living in a bubble of another culture within our own.

    I would recomend to those who dont know our culture to try living in a very different part of the world, like I currently do, as it gives you great persepctive over what you had back in england, and how it is unique and special. *
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    Perhaps a little tactless on Air China's part. Maybe they could have simply mapped out the areas to avoid rather than mention race and ethnicity - although perhaps this is just easier for Chinese tourists?

    Regardless, self-righteous commenters can fold their arms, signal virtue and call it racist all they like, but deep down we all know Air China are kinda right (as blunt and 'racially insensitive' as they were about it).
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    (Original post by bubblegumcat)
    the airline apologised, so all u idiots trying to justify what they did can give up now


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Not that I agree with the airlines statments, but an appology from an international company is largely meaningless to the debate.*

    Ofcourse they are going to appologise, whether they agree they made a mistake or not.. they have to look out for their profits. *
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    (Original post by L'absurde)
    it's about the culture, language, heritage, racial identity etc (Same rule applies to eastern Europeans for example).
    Language and even british culture (which I'm still waiting for someone to define for me because I'm stumped) can easily be obtained.


    I don't think you know what racial identity is. Otherwise you wouldn't have bothered listing it. And about heritage, how many generations of families do you think need to have lived here in order for it to pass your made up test? Where exactly is the line drawn? 2? 3? 4?


    I recall another user saying he doesn't care how many generations the families had lived here for since they still wouldn't be british anyway. Not sure if it was you or not.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    x
    That's a nice list. You summarized British culture very well.

    My only issue with other posters here is the idea that if you're not white, an assumption is made that you don't participate in the things you listed. Pretty much everyone around me including myself participate in at least 80% of the activities you listed :dontknow:
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    British culture encompases all of the great things the UK has given to the world, as well as the values and traditions of its people.. see:*

    - British food - pasties, roast dinners, fish and chips etc.*
    - British original sports - football, rugby, cricket etc.*
    - British music - the beatles, brit pop, 60s-70s rock, grime, etc.*
    - British art - Hugely influencial artists over the past years ranging from Pollock to Banksy*
    - British education, a historic pioneer of university education and scietntific research, still boasts a highly disproportionate number of top universities for a contry our size.
    - British politics - one of the first modern representative democracies, paved the way for many to follow*
    - British monarchy - one of the few left in the world, and one of the most respected/observed
    - British attitudes / mindset, english gentlemen, stiff upper lip, resolve under pressure, manners and politeness
    - British working class communities, cockneys in london, scousers, brummy, all with their own micro cultures and traditions
    - the British language, oxford english, Recieved pronounciation, the standard second and business language of the world..
    - British writers, which could arguably stake a claim as some of the best ever, ranging from shakespear all the way to modern times and J.K.Rowling rulling the litterary scene
    - British history, both good and bad, our tendancy towards war and violence.. but also our love for inovation and development.. the industrial revolution, the empire, kings and queens, knights, the spanish amada, the magna carter, henry 8th, and so much more
    - British charitable spirit.. one of the most charitable nations out there, both govermentally and in person.
    - Morris dancing, Maypolls, Fates, Worm charming, cheese rolling, and so many local traditions
    - Pubs and pub culture
    - Ale, Cider, Beer, and the way we like to drink it
    - Our media, world famous cultrual icons like James bond, Dr. Who, Sherlock Holmes, Harry potter
    - Our miriad of local slang
    - Our love and obsessions as a country, our national past times: gardening, dog walking, baking,
    - The first national healthcare system, and a top class benifit system
    - The BBC, Children in need, Red Noes day, Stricly come dancing, The Bake off, and so much more wierd british culture
    - Our Overly polite modesty,*
    - Our Humour, being truelly different from many other cultures
    - Our architecture with great buildings spanning many centuries
    - Our geography, our obession with the weather, love of rain, grey skies, boring landscapes, never to hot, never to cold, always in the middle, always complaining
    - Christianity, and our continuation of church traditions even whilst becoming a more secular country
    - Our constant embrace and adoption of other cultures, and our acceptance of their people and way of life
    - Our bendy roads, backwards organisation, and the way we still insist on using two measurement systems simultaniously, dispite it making no sense to do so..
    - Our famous influcial figures - Byron, churchil, thatcher, and onwards
    - Our festivals, May day, Guy fawkes day, Pancake Day
    - Afternoon Tea, High Tea, Cream Tea, always needing a Cup of tea ready if anyone comes round to visit

    I could go on and on, and as an english person I have barely even touched upon welsh, scotish and nother irish cultrual aspects..*

    Serriously, if you live in this country, one of the oldest countries on the plannet with a long rich history that stretches back through so many fascinating times.. A country that is hugely diverse for its tiny size, and packs so many regional differences, local traditions and cultural herratige. If you live here, and you dont have a clear idea of what the culture is, then either your living with your eyes shut, or you are living in a bubble of another culture within our own.

    I would recomend to those who dont know our culture to try living in a very different part of the world, like I currently do, as it gives you great persepctive over what you had back in england, and how it is unique and special. *
    Finally. Great list btw.

    Now for my second question. What about that do you guys think is impossible for a black or asian family who has been living in the uk for generations to embrace?
    Every time I see a bigot here saying a group of people aren't british. Their reasoning is always culture.

    And what do you guys think of white individuals that don't care about most of what you've listed? Are they not British to you?

    Edit:

    England is the only place supposedly first world place I see this sort of controversy arising. I never see asian americans told they're not truly american. Or black people from norway being told they're not truly Norwegian. For country that prides itself on tolerance, I'm seeing a lot of the complete opposite in this thread. If you and your family have lived here for generations and done everything the locals do, who am I to tell you where you're from? It's ironic because the same people here will be jacking off if a person of colour from their favourite sports national team scorres lol
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    (Original post by Tai Ga)
    That's a nice list. You summarized British culture very well.

    My only issue with other posters here is the idea that if you're not white, an assumption is made that you don't participate in the things you listed. Pretty much everyone around me including myself participate in at least 80% of the activities you listed :dontknow:
    I agree, people mix up their anger to easily. Most people I know in england who dislike immigrants, fear for loosing their culture rather then loosing their race - but the two are so conflated and confused in most peoples minds, that their anger is much easier dirrected at a race rather then the much harder to define notion of culture and peoples adherance to it.*

    Its a huge area that england and most western countries need to work on - intergration into culture, and not just to the way society functions.. we have been far to focused on how people functionally intergrate, whilst ignoring the effect on culture, which now seems to be manifesting itself in a huge negative backlash towards immigration. Its a taboo subject still though, so I dont see anything being done about it - but big questions need to be asked, focusing on why people from some cultures intergrate very highly, and others isolate themselves..

    Culture changes and evolves over time, but its a slow process, and forcing upon people has never ended well in the past, so until our cultural development catches up with how the modern globalised world works, high intergration is a must.

    -- I would much rather live in an enviroment full of non-white people who live with a shared culture to my own, then live in a town of white people who have a culture I cannot relate to. We all want to fit in and feel at home, safe within something we like and understand after all. *
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Not that I agree with the airlines statments, but an appology from an international company is largely meaningless to the debate.*

    Ofcourse they are going to appologise, whether they agree they made a mistake or not.. they have to look out for their profits. *
    good point


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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    your words

    ' it doesn't warrant people to discriminate against every single black'

    apart from the poor English not a single person has said it's OK to to discriminate against every single black
    Perhaps you should read what a straw man is before simply parroting back to me
    you made a leap assuming I was accusing someone of doing that, I was talking about general, country-wide discrimination on that basis, not you personally
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    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    Language and even british culture (which I'm still waiting for someone to define for me because I'm stumped) can easily be obtained.I don't think you know what racial identity is. Otherwise you wouldn't have bothered listing it. And about heritage, how many generations of families do you think need to have lived here in order for it to pass your made up test? Where exactly is the line drawn? 2? 3? 4?I recall another user saying he doesn't care how many generations the families had lived here for since they still wouldn't be british anyway. Not sure if it was you or not.
    That wasn't me.

    Most countries have a racial identity, almost all people fall into that race. In Japan for example most people are ethnically Japanese.I gave an example earlier. If I move to Japan and my family lives there for generations, learn the language and assimilate into Japanese life. My grandchildren still wouldn't be Japanese. Even if they had the documents, they lack the Japanese ethnicity, culture and heritage. I've been quite clear with my views haven't I?

    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    And why should a Hindu not be British, when Paganism was here for eons before Christianity? When we are a mix of Basque, Viking, Roman etc? Eastern religions are in many ways more advanced and civilized.

    I find people with your view very narrow and conservative. What you actually describe is not a unique Britishness, but a mere white christian European culture that is fairly generic.
    Because the people of Britain aren't Hindu. I'm not saying Hinduism is bad or anything. It's just not part of the British culture and identity.

    Hmm...I don't see myself that way. But that is what Britishness is. Just as being muslim and black is part of being Somali.
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    (Original post by pairofjeans)
    Finally. Great list btw.

    Now for my second question. What about that do you guys think is impossible for a black or asian family who has been living in the uk for generations to embrace?
    Every time I see a bigot here saying a group of people aren't british. Their reasoning is always culture.

    And what do you guys think of white individuals that don't care about most of what you've listed? Are they not British to you?
    see my reply above for the relation between race and culture. There is nothing at all stoping a non-white person from being culturally british.*

    What defines a persons nationality is difficult, and differs hugely between different parts of the world. Currently I live in china, and conform 100% to their culture, but am I chinese? Maybe I need to live here longer.. or maybe I will never be, but my children would be, as they were born here? Maybe they will even never be as they are not fully ethnically chinese, or maybe if I self-identify with chinese culture, hold a passport, live and work here, I am fully chinese..

    The boundaries are hard to define, and different people will come to a different ballance between the factors of:

    Race, Place of birth, Culture, Religion (more relevant in some countries), Family history, etc etc.*

    For some cultures the line falls harshly in one dirrection, such as the chinese never considering a non-chinese person to be chinese.. or on the other side, Many americans being highly accepting and considering almost all to be american after a visa..*

    For some people it is even contradictory.. I have met many english people who can easily accept a non-white person as being english, but cannot get their heads around a white person being japanese, or indian. For others its clear cut and they have 1 rule for all, but I suspect for most its a blurry line that is very cirucmstantial.

    Point being in a complex world, and dealing with a problem with many factors, it is very hard to find a single answer that fits all countries all scenarios and all people.. which is a shame as it is something very important: peoples Identiy.

    For me personally, I put a high emphasis on culture over race, but can only get my head in line with accepting non-native people into western nationalities, and could never accept myself or my fellow english people into an easter nationalities. The idea of me identifying as chinese, would be very wrong in my mind.*

    *
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    (Original post by bubblegumcat)
    the airline apologised, so all u idiots trying to justify what they did can give up now


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Almost any company will issue an apology if enough people complain about something. It's a hollow formality these days and often means nothing.

    Using this to validate accusations made against them is rather silly. In fact, the whole idea of a public apology is rather silly, as most of them are forced and meaningless.
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    (Original post by L'absurde)
    Even if they had the documents, they lack the Japanese ethnicity, culture and heritage. I've been quite clear with my views haven't I?
    . But that is what Britishness is. Just as being muslim and black is part of being Somali.
    No. The only thing they lack is ethnicity. Which is the thing you're using as your turning point here. They have both culture and heritage. They're Japanese. You even explained why they'd have culture in the line before that quote. " and my family lives there for generations, learn the language and assimilate into Japanese life."

    Not sure why you contradicted it moments later. Then even if you still don't think they have heritage, as the guy said, where's the line drawn? How many generations does it take to appease you?

    And no. Being born and growing up in somalia is part of being somali. I wouldn't care about the race or religion of the person. Neither should you.

    Hypothetical question, if a white, british man living in the uk for the whole of his life marries a woman with a Nigerian background (who has also lived in the UK for her whole life too) and has a baby. Are you suggesting that his child loses Britishness even if he was raised in the same circumstances as his parents?
 
 
 
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