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"World Class" footballers in the Premiership watch

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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    Essien is surely world class! how many defensive midfielders can you name that are as good or better than him?
    Pirlo, Gattusso
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    (Original post by ba_ba1)
    What about Ibra - he's awesome!
    Ibrahimovic was indifferent at Juve, but has since turned it around at Inter. I loved his style at Ajax, and he showed signs of his old self last season. I think he can be up there if he has another good season this year...last year was a bit of a gimme for Inter.
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    If Essien was playing week in week out in centre mid for Chelsea then I probably would have him as 'world class' but he's doing far too much defensive covering where he's not actually that great at the moment
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    Don't get me wrong, I'm an Ibrahimovic-hater, but I wouldn't say he is any more inconsistent than Rooney is. Have you never noticed how Rooney tends to go on these 5-10 game streaks where his touch/passing/everything is absolutely abysmal. It happens pretty much at least twice a season to him.

    I'd say Rooney is better than Ibra, but neither of them are a shining example of consistency
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    (Original post by maggot brains)
    Pirlo, Gattusso
    Pirlo is a very different type of player to Essien.

    So 1, and even that is debatable, because IMO i don't think Gattuso has the dynamism of Essien.
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    Defining world class across the spectrum is so very, very difficult if only because a lot will depend on individual interpretation. Even if we attempt to restrain any sense of bias and make an objective assessment, we have to first assess whether the basis of that assessment is objective also.

    There seems to be two strains of thought, at least in this thread - (1) that to be world class the player concerned must have the ability to translate his talents across differing league formats and styles, stages or prestige competitions, or (2) that to be world class the player concerned must be able to hypothetically compete with a World XI.

    The latter seems very idealistic and appears relatively easy to categorise such thinking - but it also appears to have fatal flaws in garnering an assessment; the team itself is hypothetical - so we fail to gain a basis anyway as to their talent besides continual circles of argument. Secondly, the team itself has no concrete opposition except hypothetical equivalents - it would seem very important to judge talent, in all its dynamics, on how it stands up to the pressure of a competitive scenario.

    The former however seems much stronger. It allows assessment on play against a range of opposition, styles, and league formats, affords knowledge of individual dynamics when playing around inferior or similar talents, and tests the range of those talents to an unusual maximum. But it does again suffer from fatal flaws - does, as Chewy said earlier, Ronaldo's play in Serie A and La Liga - yet not the Premier League - suddenly fail to make him world class? Or vice versa? The argument thus seems rather absurd. We all know the practical damage this player could do at the top of his game to defences around him, whether at World Cups or in league competition. So is that form of assessment incorrect also? It's interesting to note how he has suffered from time to time - does that default his ability?

    The conclusion is rather simple - that there can be no radically consistent form of assessment for deciding who is world class and who is not as long as the players themselves suffer from an inconsistency we would happily call being human. :p: It likely means that either the term world class - as we currently understand it in this thread, under the above scenarios - is too rigid and therefore must contain a larger spread of players to account for raw talent across the spectrum, avoiding practical consistency, or that the group of agreed world class players is in fact exponentially smaller - very few players reaching shocking heights of consistent achievment and performance. It's like last year when scientists were discussing whether Pluto should remain a planet or not; the cut off point between planet and asteroid seems an awful lot more to manage when there are quite literally millions of rocks which straddle the measurements either side - some only slighty larger, some only slightly smaller. In the end they decided it wasn't, came up with a secondary designation, and the planets as we know them appear a radically small group.

    Perhaps that's what we've got to do. For example, the old arguments as to who is the best player in history traditionally throws up problems of assessing ability per generation etc. Here we have something similar - either way, there are simply so many variables to assess and very little ground to assess that on, that true world class may not even exist as we know it. We've all seen remarkable performances in amazing situations from players we didn't think were capable, and then poor displays from players we believed could do so much more. It is game by game, dynamic by dynamic, performance by performance and situation by situation.

    Perhaps world class can only be truly assesssed along those lines, and the degrees of such class have yet to be finely assigned adequately enough. We need to understand that world class may prove a much more maleable group, more finely designated, than perhaps a rigid classification of who's better than who would attest.
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    dammit poo u cudnt just give a couple of names could you!!
    lol... im sure it makes for a gd read though!
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    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    Defining world class across the spectrum is so very, very difficult if only because a lot will depend on individual interpretation. Even if we attempt to restrain any sense of bias and make an objective assessment, we have to first assess whether the basis of that assessment is objective also.

    There seems to be two strains of thought, at least in this thread - (1) that to be world class the player concerned must have the ability to translate his talents across differing league formats and styles, stages or prestige competitions, or (2) that to be world class the player concerned must be able to hypothetically compete with a World XI.

    The latter seems very idealistic and appears relatively easy to categorise such thinking - but it also appears to have fatal flaws in garnering an assessment; the team itself is hypothetical - so we fail to gain a basis anyway as to their talent besides continual circles of argument. Secondly, the team itself has no concrete opposition except hypothetical equivalents - it would seem very important to judge talent, in all its dynamics, on how it stands up to the pressure of a competitive scenario.

    The former however seems much stronger. It allows assessment on play against a range of opposition, styles, and league formats, affords knowledge of individual dynamics when playing around inferior or similar talents, and tests the range of those talents to an unusual maximum. But it does again suffer from fatal flaws - does, as Chewy said earlier, Ronaldo's play in Serie A and La Liga - yet not the Premier League - suddenly fail to make him world class? Or vice versa? The argument thus seems rather absurd. We all know the practical damage this player could do at the top of his game to defences around him, whether at World Cups or in league competition. So is that form of assessment incorrect also? It's interesting to note how he has suffered from time to time - does that default his ability?

    The conclusion is rather simple - that there can be no radically consistent form of assessment for deciding who is world class and who is not as long as the players themselves suffer from an inconsistency we would happily call being human. :p: It likely means that either the term world class - as we currently understand it in this thread, under the above scenarios - is too rigid and therefore must contain a larger spread of players to account for raw talent across the spectrum, avoiding practical consistency, or that the group of agreed world class players is in fact exponentially smaller - very few players reaching shocking heights of consistent achievment and performance. It's like last year when scientists were discussing whether Pluto should remain a planet or not; the cut off point between planet and asteroid seems an awful lot more to manage when there are quite literally millions of rocks which straddle the measurements either side - some only slighty larger, some only slightly smaller. In the end they decided it wasn't, came up with a secondary designation, and the planets as we know them appear a radically small group.

    Perhaps that's what we've got to do. For example, the old arguments as to who is the best player in history traditionally throws up problems of assessing ability per generation etc. Here we have something similar - either way, there are simply so many variables to assess and very little ground to assess that on, that true world class may not even exist as we know it. We've all seen remarkable performances in amazing situations from players we didn't think were capable, and then poor displays from players we believed could do so much more. It is game by game, dynamic by dynamic, performance by performance and situation by situation.

    Perhaps world class can only be truly assesssed along those lines, and the degrees of such class have yet to be finely assigned adequately enough. We need to understand that world class may prove a much more maleable group, more finely designated, than perhaps a rigid classification of who's better than who would attest.
    :eek:
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    Could anyone give a 2 line summary of what Rich said, I only read books at bedtime :p:
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    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    there are simply so many variables to assess and very little ground to assess that on, that true world class may not even exist as we know it. We've all seen remarkable performances in amazing situations from players we didn't think were capable, and then poor displays from players we believed could do so much more. It is game by game, dynamic by dynamic, performance by performance and situation by situation.
    This is very thought-provoking, and it sums it all up nicely.

    Cracking post dude :yy:
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    ok, sod world class. pick a Prem Xi and a non-prem European XI. and compare them toe to toe.
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    no prem players in it.
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    Wheres Heskey in your team?

    Bit early to put Malouda in there.
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    (Original post by lfc4life)
    -------------Cech------------

    Finnan-----Terry-----Carvalho-----Evra

    ----------Gerrard-----Essien-------

    Ronaldo-----------------------Malouda

    ---------Drogba-----Torres------




    Hahaha how can you put Malouda on the left wing surely Giggs is better and Torres upfront?:eek: enough said
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    Prem XI

    Cech
    Finnan Terry Carragher Cole
    Gerrard Essien
    Ronaldo---------------J.Cole
    Drogba Rooney

    Europe XI

    Buffon
    Alves Cannarvaro Puyol Lahm
    Pirlo Gattuso
    Messi Kaka Ronnie
    Henry
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    mine would be for the premiership
    -------------Van der Sar-----------
    G neville------Terry---- Rio----- Cole
    C.Ronaldo----- Gerrard----Essien---- Giggs
    ---------------Drogba----Rooney
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    (Original post by lfc4life)
    Every time I've seen Giggs recently he's been poor, my united fan mates agree with me and I don't think it will be long before he's out of uniteds first choice 11.
    So you think Malouda deserves that left wing spot just because he has played 3-4 games whereas Giggs has been immense on the left wing since 1992

    (Original post by lfc4life)
    VDS? :eek: Enough said.
    When VDS is at his best he is world class goalkeeper and he is proven that he is good .. I cant choose between VDS and Cech , they both have different strengths and weaknesses for example VDS controls the box far better than Cech and is better at claiming cross whereas Cech is a better shot stopper. However, VDS is a better penalty saver than Cech.

    Feel free to disagree
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    Heres mine

    ---------------------------Robinson------------------------

    ----Carr----------------The Chuckle Brothers----Ass Ekotto--

    --Bowyer---Dyer----------------------Barton-----Dabo------

    -------------------------------------------------Heskey-----


    Only need 10 players because the teams so good, you also get free half time entertainment with Bowyer vs Dyer round 2 and Barton vs Dabo the rematch...The Chuckle Brothers: The Ferdinand brothers, who are equally as funny on the pitch.
    Heskey will lead the line, hes awesome.
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    You missed van Persie.
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    All these are world class in my opinion: (man utd fan)

    Cech, Terry, Essien, Drogba, Gerrard, Fabregas, Rooney, Ronaldo

    Perhaps Berbatov and Tevez too. Could name a few more.
 
 
 
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