Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV Watch

Announcements
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I am usually so prompt with my replies so apologies for the late one

    (Original post by Observatory)
    That's just a question of demarcation. I would guess it depends if they have acquired some other citizenship in the meantime.
    And if they have acquired citizenship of another country. How would it affect them? Will they not be allowed back?

    Immigration is considered legitimate.
    Disregarding for the moment that the Zionists blackmailed and committed terrorist acts in order to force the British, who had placed a quota on immigration due to large numbers of illegal immigration, to relent and allow more refugees, you feel it would be okay for someone to immigrate to another country and demand their own state?

    I do not think either has any moral strength.
    So they are both equally invalid?

    If they are, then who is the rightful owner of that piece of land?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    Yep, thats the standard islamist mantra - another intifada will = another 2-5000 dead muslims in palestine. no worries, becuase they are only sacrifical sheep.. sorry 'shaheeds' that advances the 'islamic agenda' which is the most important thing- right?
    Well, Israel simply regards these people as cannon fodder...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    Hamas responds to killing of 2 protesters and beating of a 3rd by launching a volley of rockets at israel leading to the killing of 900 further palestinians :hmmmm: something wrong with that logic somewhere isnt there


    FYI hamas dont need any reason to let loose rockets, nor permission from any 'governmental' politician, i guess they do so everytime they run out of space storing rockets in palestinian schools
    Yep there seems to be a lot of criminality behind Israel's bizarre reasoning regarding how to respond to Hamas's response to Israeli terrorism. They should have apologised at the very least and compensated the families of those they killed and battered and should have vowed to refrain from such heinous acts of violence in the future but being the wanton criminals that they are that course of action probably never even occurred to them.

    I never claimed to support Hamas so meh to the rest of your post
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by felamaslen)
    I support Muslims as much as I support any other religious group. My problem is with totalitarianism. It is nothing to do with Muslim vs. non-Muslim, but totalitarian vs. liberal democrat. If Hamas were a bunch of atheist totalitarians (Communists, for example) I would not support them either. If they were a bunch of Christian fanatics (the KKK, for example) I would not support them either. I support Israel partly because it allows Muslims and Jews to have human rights which they don't have in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran and indeed Gaza.

    The most liberal state can be totalitarian and the most totalitarian state can be a liberal one.

    It just depends on who you compare it against
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    With all due respect, your opinion is pure crap.

    The most liberal state can be totalitarian and the most totalitarian state can be a liberal one.

    It just depends on who you compare it against which is why it is such a stupid position to hold.
    Your opinion sounds like nothing but doublespeak. How can a liberal state possibly be totalitarian? How can a totalitarian state possibly be liberal? The two are polar opposites.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quaintsaintrah)
    Yep there seems to be a lot of criminality behind Israel's bizarre reasoning regarding how to respond to Hamas's response to Israeli terrorism. They should have apologised at the very least and compensated the families of those they killed and battered and should have vowed to refrain from such heinous acts of violence in the future but being the wanton criminals that they are that course of action probably never even occurred to them.

    I never claimed to support Hamas so meh to the rest of your post
    israels reasoning was perfectly predictable- 'gaza launching rockets at us, launch back at them' -you tried to justify hamas putting 900 ordinary palestinian lives in danger by launching rockets - in response to a protest killing and someone being beaten up - seems quite clear you support them, why else would you make such a ridiculous justification?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Your opinion sounds like nothing but doublespeak. How can a liberal state possibly be totalitarian? How can a totalitarian state possibly be liberal? The two are polar opposites.
    In relation to North Korea, Gaza could be said to be more of a liberal "state".
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Well, Israel simply regards these people as cannon fodder...
    it takes you this long now to come up with answers. is ummah.com down at the moment?
    what can they do when islamists are using them as human shields? it is the sad fact that unless muslims wake up to the reality of their manipulation for the purpose of islamic agenda, that will always happen. if normal palestinians exile all islamists into your 'buffer zone' then israel would have more suitable cannon fodder would they not
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    In relation to North Korea, Gaza could be said to be more of a liberal "state".
    Let me help you out a bit:

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    it takes you this long now to come up with answers. is ummah.com down at the moment?
    Are you seriously throwing a hissy fit because I didn't apologise to you for the tardiness of my reply?

    what can they do when islamists are using them as human shields? it is the sad fact that unless muslims wake up to the reality of their manipulation for the purpose of islamic agenda, that will always happen. if they exile all islamists into your 'buzzer zone' then israel would have more suitable cannon fodder would they not
    So far, not even our resident "hasbara scholar", Chindits, has managed to provide proof that HAMAS engages in this practice.

    Perhaps you'd like to be the first to tackle this?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    you tried to justfiy their putting 900 ordinary palestinian lives in danger by launching rockets - in response to a protest killing and someone being beaten up - seems quite clear you support them, why else would you make such a ridiculous justification?
    Nope, never justified Hamas's actions, simply stated plain, unadulterated, widely overlooked facts.
    The facts are that Israel is not conducting the current operation in Gaza solely for reasons of 'defence' against Hamas rockets. The media would like you to believe that Israel is defending itself against escalated rocket attacks from 'terrorists'. But that is not how it all started. It did not start with the kidnapping of three Israeli settlers either.
    It started with Israeli terrorism in the form of the widespread killing and abuse of Palestinian youth since the beginning of the year 2014, to which Hamas retaliated in whatever way they wished and which I am not attempting to justify. Israel is responding to Hamas's retaliation.
    Israel is not responding to Hamas terrorism, Israel is responding to Hamas's response to Israeli terrorism with, incredibly, more terrorism.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Let me help you out a bit:
    Can I asked what you used as a base standard?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Can I asked what you used as a base standard?
    In order of importance, descending:

    1. Free speech.
    2. Regular, free and fair elections.
    3. Equality before the law.
    4. Property rights.
    5. Culture of critical thought and scepticism.
    6. Sexual equality and freedom of sexuality.
    7. Other issues such as drug legalisation.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by felamaslen)
    In order of importance, descending:

    1. Free speech.
    2. Regular, free and fair elections.
    3. Equality before the law.
    4. Property rights.
    5. Culture of critical thought and scepticism.
    6. Sexual equality and freedom of sexuality.
    7. Other issues such as drug legalisation.
    In relation to Israel, is Gaza liberal or illiberal?

    In comparison to North Korea, is Gaza liberal or illiberal?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    In relation to Israel, is Gaza liberal or illiberal?

    In comparison to North Korea, is Gaza liberal or illiberal?
    Gaza is illiberal compared to Israel, and hardly liberal compared to North Korea. I don't prefer Ismail Haniyeh over Kim Jong Un, if that's what you're asking.

    Regardless, Hamas not being quite as bad as the NK regime is hardly an argument in favour of Hamas.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Are you seriously throwing a hissy fit because I didn't apologise to you for the tardiness of my reply?



    So far, not even our resident "hasbara scholar", Chindits, has managed to provide proof that HAMAS engages in this practice.

    Perhaps you'd like to be the first to tackle this?
    i already showed they do this at length some time ago with the Un statements :rolleyes: - but if you are going to play that childish game of sticking your head in the sand again, carry on, its too late in the nite for me to indulge you. your reply wasnt worth the wait.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quaintsaintrah)
    Nope, never justified Hamas's actions, simply stated plain, unadulterated, widely overlooked facts. the facts that hamas brought 900 palestinians into firing line meant for them by launching their rockets, in revenge for killing of 2 people. thanks for clarifying.

    The facts are that Israel is not conducting the current operation in Gaza solely for reasons of 'defence' against Hamas rockets. The media would like you to believe that Israel is defending itself against escalated rocket attacks from 'terrorists'. But that is not how it all started. It did not start with the kidnapping of three Israeli settlers either.
    i know - . it started as you confirmed above, because hamas launched rackets in response to 2 protestor killings. please dont backtrack now that youve had a chance to read what you posted and dont like the sound of it
    (Original post by Quaintsaintrah)

    It started with Israeli terrorism in the form of the widespread killing and abuse of Palestinian youth since the beginning of the year 2014, to which Hamas retaliated in whatever way they wished and which I am not attempting to justify. Israel is responding to Hamas's retaliation.
    Israel is not responding to Hamas terrorism, Israel is responding to Hamas's response to Israeli terrorism with, incredibly, more terrorism.
    which palestinian youth was that exactly? if it was 1 presumably hamas was prepared to sacrifice 450 additonal palestinians to retaliate for this one kiilling - thats the basic maths they work on yes?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Gaza is illiberal compared to Israel, and hardly liberal compared to North Korea. I don't prefer Ismail Haniyeh over Kim Jong Un, if that's what you're asking.

    Regardless, Hamas not being quite as bad as the NK regime is hardly an argument in favour of Hamas.
    And still you try to weasel out by resorting to terms such as "not as bad" and "hardly liberal" which is now not surprising.

    Regardless, I have established that whether something is liberal or illiberal depends on the perception that one holds and what one compares it to.

    Therefore, there is by no means an objective standard to which one can adhere to in order to be liberal or illiberal. Ergo, those terms are now meaningless.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tsr1269)
    And still you try to weasel out by resorting to terms such as "not as bad" and "hardly liberal" which is now not surprising.

    Regardless, I have established that whether something is liberal or illiberal depends on the perception that one holds and what one compares it to.

    Therefore, there is by no means an objective standard to which one can adhere to in order to be liberal or illiberal. Ergo, those terms are now meaningless.
    You make no sense at all. This is like saying the terms "large" and "small" are meaningless, since you could always be larger or smaller (notwithstanding Planck lengths).

    Come back when you understand basic logic.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    i already showed they do this at length some time ago with the Un statements :rolleyes: - but if you are going to play that childish game of sticking your head in the sand again, carry on, its too late in the nite for me to indulge you. your reply wasnt worth the wait.
    If my memory serves me correctly, you refused to post the relevant excerpt from that "UN Statement".

    As it stands, you have confirmed that there is no evidence that HAMAS actively uses civilians as human shields...
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 8, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.