The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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Tanqueray91
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#2781
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#2781
(Original post by Aph)
Well I can't drink ribena
Do you ever stop ****ing complaining. You're giving me a headache!

Just drink the damn ribena!
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Aph
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#2782
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#2782
(Original post by mobbsy91)
Do you ever stop ****ing complaining. You're giving me a headache!

Just drink the damn ribena!
I said I refuse it.
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Tanqueray91
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#2783
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#2783
(Original post by Aph)
I said I refuse it.
Just drink whatever you want then! Take it. Drink it. And then quit giving me a headache!!!
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Aph
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#2784
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#2784
(Original post by mobbsy91)
Just drink whatever you want then! Take it. Drink it. And then quit giving me a headache!!!
Then I need the key to the store room.
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adam9317
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#2785
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#2785
Having been a moderate supporter of the DUP, I can say I was appalled when the Northern Ireland DUP Health minister Jim Wells basically said that homosexual couples are more likely to attack their children.

I can say that I will not be voting DUP until he is removed. I never liked this guy, but this is a step too far- and to think this party may prop up a coalition!

Info can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32443730
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Tanqueray91
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#2786
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#2786
(Original post by Aph)
Then I need the key to the store room.
Never!!! All this arguing is actually mind****ing me IRL and I can't take it! Have your blood wine!!!!!


(Original post by adam9317)
Having been a moderate supporter of the DUP, I can say I was appalled when the Northern Ireland DUP Health minister Jim Wells basically said that homosexual couples are more likely to attack their children.

I can say that I will not be voting DUP until he is removed. I never liked this guy, but this is a step too far- and to think this party may prop up a coalition!

Info can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32443730
Wow, that's pretty bad! And can't be too good for the party!
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Rakas21
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#2787
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#2787
Good to see Portillo agreeing with me that EVEL is damaging to the union. Catching up on This Week.
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adam9317
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#2788
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#2788
(Original post by mobbsy91)
Never!!! All this arguing is actually mind****ing me IRL and I can't take it! Have your blood wine!!!!!




Wow, that's pretty bad! And can't be too good for the party!
The party has been brought into questioning.

Mr Wells is also being investigated by the police for this- im not too sure what the charge is TBH!
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Saracen's Fez
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#2789
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#2789
(Original post by adam9317)
Having been a moderate supporter of the DUP, I can say I was appalled when the Northern Ireland DUP Health minister Jim Wells basically said that homosexual couples are more likely to attack their children.

I can say that I will not be voting DUP until he is removed. I never liked this guy, but this is a step too far- and to think this party may prop up a coalition!

Info can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32443730
Is this sort of comment that the DUP seem to come up with at all representative of public opinion in NI, or does a significant proportion of the electorate vote for a load of nutcases?
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adam9317
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#2790
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#2790
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
Is this sort of comment that the DUP seem to come up with at all representative of public opinion in NI, or does a significant proportion of the electorate vote for a load of nutcases?
Far far from it. I expect 99% of the public to disagree with this statement.

The problem is in Northern Ireland, people are wary of changing who they vote for due to the divide lines between unionism-Protestantism/ nationalism-Catholics. The majority of unionists do support the DUP, but in recent times this has been shifting with the sort of things that they have been doing
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Saracen's Fez
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#2791
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#2791
(Original post by adam9317)
Far far from it. I expect 99% of the public to disagree with this statement.

The problem is in Northern Ireland, people are wary of changing who they vote for due to the divide lines between unionism-Protestantism/ nationalism-Catholics. The majority of unionists do support the DUP, but in recent times this has been shifting with the sort of things that they have been doing
How come they have shifted from the seemingly-centre-right UUP to the almost-far-right DUP in the last 20 years then? (And the same for the nationalists' move from SDLP to Sinn Fein?)
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adam9317
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#2792
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#2792
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
How come they have shifted from the seemingly-centre-right UUP to the almost-far-right DUP in the last 20 years then? (And the same for the nationalists' move from SDLP to Sinn Fein?)
The issue came whenever voters saw the DUP and thought how they could do so much better- so votes shifted.
But I think we have hit a point where people are seeing that the DUP are bigots, and although some may move back to the UUP, a new party [DUP Break off] the TUV have been created [Traditional Unionist Voice] While they do seem more extreme on issues, they seem to be more aligned with the people of Ulster, and wiling to speak what the people want.

As with the nationalist side and Sinn Fein/ SDLP I do not have enough knowledge on that side to comment!
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Rakas21
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#2793
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#2793
NI is really weird. You have 3 big parties but they all get tiny shares of the vote as though people vote like they do with PR.

Will be interesting to see how the RL Tories do here now.
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Jammy Duel
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#2794
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#2794
(Original post by Rakas21)
Good to see Portillo agreeing with me that EVEL is damaging to the union. Catching up on This Week.
Which would you prefer, EVEL or remove the devolved assemblies to bring back parity?
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That Bearded Man
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#2795
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#2795
(Original post by adam9317)
Having been a moderate supporter of the DUP, I can say I was appalled when the Northern Ireland DUP Health minister Jim Wells basically said that homosexual couples are more likely to attack their children.

I can say that I will not be voting DUP until he is removed. I never liked this guy, but this is a step too far- and to think this party may prop up a coalition!

Info can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32443730
Delighted to hear it, but why is this the final straw? They have blamed gays for hurricane katrina, still refuse gays the right to donate blood, still fighting for a conscience clause, this is a backward party forced further into the corner and it's tribal core for votes. Sinn Fein following a similar line.

Voting SDLP - support Alliance but the SDLP candidate is local. Would you consider Alliance?

Also didn't Nigel say that NI is the most Eurosceptic part of Britain?

Not a big fan of our party leaders I must say
Gerry Adams - enough said
Alastair McDonnell - rarely votes, sleeps in talks, expenses scrooge and clueless
Robinson - firmly allied with Pastor McDonnell (but best of the DUP)
Jim Allister - religious nut job
Nesbitt- TV Presenter
Alliance.....wish Naomi Long was leader.
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That Bearded Man
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#2796
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#2796
Also, I'm linking a change petition on a tragic story of a women who worked with my sister, who had her drink spiked, and now faces a criminal charge and a GMC hearing to remove her ability to practice medicine.

Disgusting and shambolic. Please read.

https://www.change.org/p/public-pros...src-custom_msg
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That Bearded Man
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#2797
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#2797
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
How come they have shifted from the seemingly-centre-right UUP to the almost-far-right DUP in the last 20 years then? (And the same for the nationalists' move from SDLP to Sinn Fein?)
To add to Adam, because Sinn Fein are far more active and vocal. The SDLP are a shadow of life under the great John Hume, and since then, have accomplished little and abandoned their anti - establishment stance that brought them popularity. Now, Sinn Fein are the party fighting the establishment, hence they have stolen all the low level voters. Plus, Sinn Fein have been the defenders of the Irish language and of Irish culture and sports. Plus, Sinn Fein are now leading the way for LGBT, education and remain anti - austerity, so are popular among younger voters. So now, Sinn Fein own the hardline Irish nationalist votes and the young educated votes. Leaving SDLP to the middle class who have now been castigated as "Brits"

Hence, known as the Stoopies (or the Stoop Down Low Party)
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Rakas21
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#2798
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#2798
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Which would you prefer, EVEL or remove the devolved assemblies to bring back parity?
The later although my preferred solution is an elected senate where Scotland, Wales, NI and overseas territories each get 10% of it each.
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Jammy Duel
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#2799
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#2799
(Original post by Rakas21)
The later although my preferred solution is an elected senate where Scotland, Wales, NI and overseas territories each get 10% of it each.
How is that in any way better, especially if that elected senate is in the place of the Lords?

If we're going to be totally honest, EVEL will make the union last longer than dissolving the assemblies, what would happen if we dissolved the assemblies? There would then be grounds for another Scottish referendum (which Salmond and Sturgeon would be holding off until things get a bit better for Scotland, i.e. oil price goes back up) and then they would easily win there you go, Scotland gone. While EVEL would be unpopular north of the border I expect the vast majority of that opposition will be coming from those already voting SNP, those already voting "yes", and as such it would have no real impact. Blair has already destroyed the Union, he destroying it as soon as he devolved power to Scotland.

We could probably quite comfortably dissolve the Welsh Assembly, there isn't such strong nationalism, after all, we forcibly conquered the Welsh nearly a thousand years ago and haven't really had any problems since. I expect there would be a surge in nationalism initially, but no real threat, given the majority don't really care about the Assembly, and it would die down within a few terms. Plaid would maintain greater support than they do now, but only maybe 5 or 6 seats instead of 2 or 3.

Northern Ireland is the only one where I agree with the dissolved government and that is purely reflective of Irish politics, again, dissolving it would cause a surge in rebublicanism and we would lose Northern Ireland, not to mention the potential problems it could cause us again over here until we actually let them go.

As an aside, while a member of a unionist party, I would think of myself more as a mild English nationalist. I don't actively seek the death of the union, there are some benefits of it, particularly because as soon as we lose Scotland or Wales we cannot call ourselves The United Kingdom of GREAT Britain and Northern Ireland. At the same time, however, none of the other parts of the union are that massively beneficial. Wales and Northern Ireland are the two poorest parts of the UK in terms of GDP per capita and both, particularly Northern Ireland, understandably, receive massive and in both cases partially unnecessary (in that they receive more than they actually need) subsidies from the English taxpayer. Of course the same can be argued for a North-South split of the UK etc. And as for Scotland, they're a thorn in the side these days, they aren't exactly the wealthiest, particularly with the low oil price, and the oil is the only thing making them even vaguely worth keeping. They're even more expensive to subsidise than Wales, having a larger population and a larger subsidy per capita, and it all goes into vanity projects rather than where it's needed and then they just come back crying that they don't have enough money for the NHs and such, even though they chose to cut the budget to fund their vanity projects. Conservative, yes, Unionist, not so much.
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Rakas21
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#2800
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
How is that in any way better, especially if that elected senate is in the place of the Lords?

If we're going to be totally honest, EVEL will make the union last longer than dissolving the assemblies, what would happen if we dissolved the assemblies? There would then be grounds for another Scottish referendum (which Salmond and Sturgeon would be holding off until things get a bit better for Scotland, i.e. oil price goes back up) and then they would easily win there you go, Scotland gone. While EVEL would be unpopular north of the border I expect the vast majority of that opposition will be coming from those already voting SNP, those already voting "yes", and as such it would have no real impact. Blair has already destroyed the Union, he destroying it as soon as he devolved power to Scotland.

We could probably quite comfortably dissolve the Welsh Assembly, there isn't such strong nationalism, after all, we forcibly conquered the Welsh nearly a thousand years ago and haven't really had any problems since. I expect there would be a surge in nationalism initially, but no real threat, given the majority don't really care about the Assembly, and it would die down within a few terms. Plaid would maintain greater support than they do now, but only maybe 5 or 6 seats instead of 2 or 3.

Northern Ireland is the only one where I agree with the dissolved government and that is purely reflective of Irish politics, again, dissolving it would cause a surge in rebublicanism and we would lose Northern Ireland, not to mention the potential problems it could cause us again over here until we actually let them go.

As an aside, while a member of a unionist party, I would think of myself more as a mild English nationalist. I don't actively seek the death of the union, there are some benefits of it, particularly because as soon as we lose Scotland or Wales we cannot call ourselves The United Kingdom of GREAT Britain and Northern Ireland. At the same time, however, none of the other parts of the union are that massively beneficial. Wales and Northern Ireland are the two poorest parts of the UK in terms of GDP per capita and both, particularly Northern Ireland, understandably, receive massive and in both cases partially unnecessary (in that they receive more than they actually need) subsidies from the English taxpayer. Of course the same can be argued for a North-South split of the UK etc. And as for Scotland, they're a thorn in the side these days, they aren't exactly the wealthiest, particularly with the low oil price, and the oil is the only thing making them even vaguely worth keeping. They're even more expensive to subsidise than Wales, having a larger population and a larger subsidy per capita, and it all goes into vanity projects rather than where it's needed and then they just come back crying that they don't have enough money for the NHs and such, even though they chose to cut the budget to fund their vanity projects. Conservative, yes, Unionist, not so much.
Because if it were party list PR you could still appoint rather than have the Lords being at the whim of the electorate. This would give the non-English regions a greater stake in the union and do damage to the idea that England always tells them what to do if the remaining 6 seats were divided between English regions.

EVEL is something the SNP want, the greater legal division the greater the resulting cultural division. It's a horrid idea for the union in the long run, almost as bad as throwing more powers at the assemblies. The union is not destroyed.

I'd offer Wales a chance to rejoin England (as they were essentially until 1967) and in return they'd get £x infrastructure investment before the Barnett formula change took place.

As a Englishman born in Scotland I've not an emotional connection to the union but rather i care about the UK's place in the world (being rich and unimportant like Norway is not enough for me). I do see some arguments for independence (massive north-south split in spending - London gets another crossrail while HS2 won't even go to Newcastle, let alone Scotland) and i certainly think Westminster takes Scottish oil for granted - for me i do think Scotland would do fine alone after some big business leaves initially. But, i dislike the SNP and their vision for Scotland a lot and as such i support the union. I do think that the whole UK is greater than the sum of it's parts though and we'd be weaker without Scotland.
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