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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Religion is a delusional belief, which can be considered a form of mental illness.
    As can ignorance
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Sorry, where is the science showing that all religious people are "mentally ill"? Oh, that's right. There isn't any. It's just Dawkins being a prick..
    People who believe in the gods of religion and the truth of their ancient books, etc, are undoubtedly delusional.

    "Delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness, as in schizophrenia."

    There you have it.
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    I'm against Hamas.
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    (Original post by Kutta)
    As can ignorance
    No. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. A delusion is the refusal to accept knowledge in favour of unsupported belief.
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    (Original post by RoyalBlue7)
    Senior leaders of Hamas has pointed out that they no longer held their charter high - that it is a historical document now
    Not all of them. Opinion is split.
    If the Charter no longer represented Hamas's aims, they would change or renounce it. They have not and until they do, statements saying that it is all in the past will rightly be seen as a mere public relations exercise.

    Do you think that the government of Israel wants a two state solution?
    I think the government of Israel would be happy with a permanent, peaceful solution and for all its neighbours to accept its right to exist without the constant fear of attack. It would appear that they would be prepared to accept a two-state solution. It is certainly the only possible solution. Israel will not go away so all those involved must accept that fact or there will never be peace. Israel must also be made to respect the 1948, UN determined borders.
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    Israel would have never been created were it not for religion. The whole conflict stems from religion.
    Completely true. But also this website might not exist. We might not be speaking English. Maybe we wouldn't have nation states. Maybe no democracy. Wide-sweeping generalisations like "were it not for religion..." are not very enlightening.

    (Original post by QE2)
    People who believe in the gods of religion and the truth of their ancient books, etc, are undoubtedly delusional.

    "Delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness, as in schizophrenia."

    There you have it.
    Fantastic. Now all you need to do is prove religion to be false and show the "invalidating evidence". I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there isn't strong invalidating evidence hence religious belief is not a delusion. But thanks for trying.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Not all of them. Opinion is split.
    If the Charter no longer represented Hamas's aims, they would change or renounce it. They have not and until they do, statements saying that it is all in the past will rightly be seen as a mere public relations exercise.
    Yes opinion is split everywhere. Not only in the camps of Hamas but also in the fortress of Israel. There are some members of Netanyahu's government that is calling for a full invasion of Gaza, and for Gaza to be considered a "province" of Greater Israel and then to demilitarize it. (Destroy the resistance movements to the last head). Israel has the right to exist and defend itself, while the people of Gaza and the West Bank has the same rights plus the right to resist occupation.

    I think the government of Israel would be happy with a permanent, peaceful solution and for all its neighbours to accept its right to exist without the constant fear of attack. It would appear that they would be prepared to accept a two-state solution. It is certainly the only possible solution. Israel will not go away so all those involved must accept that fact or there will never be peace. Israel must also be made to respect the 1948, UN determined borders.
    ALL their TALK is mere public relations exercise. What the zionists want is a Greater Israel. Israel can stand but it cannot be allowed to expand as if there aren't any international law. I firmly believe that Netanyahu and his friends are dead against a two-state solution, that they only talk - but they really want a Greater Israel that would eat the West Bank off.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Completely true. But also this website might not exist. We might not be speaking English. Maybe we wouldn't have nation states. Maybe no democracy. Wide-sweeping generalisations like "were it not for religion..." are not very enlightening.
    This website, language, nation states, democracy and an infinite host of achievements are not inherently contingent on religion. In fact, intellectual and ethical progress often thrived in spite of it. The concept of a sacred land, however, promised by a god, is entirely founded in religious thought.

    There seems to be two ridiculous extremes shouting the loudest in such debates where one tries to pin every woe down to religion while the other exonerates the ideology of any blame or fault.
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    (Original post by arxtra)
    This website, language, nation states, democracy and an infinite host of achievements are not inherently contingent on religion. In fact, intellectual and ethical progress often thrived in spite of it. The concept of a sacred land, however, promised by a god, is entirely founded in religious thought.

    There seems to be two ridiculous extremes shouting the loudest in such debates where one tries to pin every woe down to religion while the other exonerates the ideology of any blame or fault.
    We simply have absolutely no way of knowing what concepts and inventions would still be around if we removed religion from the picture. It's been an ever-present for thousands of years and so it is kind of silly to pretend that in an alternate universe without religion everything would be more or less the same as it is now. That's not an "extreme" view. It's patently self-evident.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Fantastic. Now all you need to do is prove religion to be false and show the "invalidating evidence". I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there isn't strong invalidating evidence hence religious belief is not a delusion. But thanks for trying.
    Since when did something need to be proved to be non-existent for believing in it to be delusional? Just because you cannot prove that I do not have a dozen tiny, undetectable unicorns living in my pants, does not mean that I am not delusional.
    Also, aren't extraordinary claims supposed to be supported by evidence, not just accepted without question?

    Oh, by the way, Christianity and Islam are demonstrably false. The simple fact that the revealed word of god is wrong is enough proof (ie. if their holy books were really written by god, they would not contain any mistakes). Followers of those religions believe them to be true despite the evidence. They ignore reality when it contradicts unsupported dogma. That is why they are delusional.

    If you believe that the world is 6000 years old, you are delusional.
    If you believe that a man flew a winged horse to the seven heavens, you are delusional.
    If you believe that there was a flood that covered the entire planet to a depth of 12,000ft in human history, you are delusional.
    If you believe that every species on the planet was saved on a wooden boat, you are delusional.
    Etc, etc.
    Belief in the major monotheisms is a delusion.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    No. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. A delusion is the refusal to accept knowledge in favour of unsupported belief.
    People who are ignorant normally fit your definition
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    (Original post by QE2)
    DO NOT disrespect Dorset! It is indeed a sacred and holy land (to some). Repent, or the Cerne Abbas Giant will beat you about the head with his massive weapon!
    Well I have family from Hampshire so I think this means war
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Completely true. But also this website might not exist. We might not be speaking English. Maybe we wouldn't have nation states. Maybe no democracy. Wide-sweeping generalisations like "were it not for religion..." are not very enlightening.
    You are comparing something you have no comprehension of (how the world would be without religion) to something we can clearly see is that fault of religion today
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    Israel Vs Gaza is not what is going on, that's a criminal simplification of this.

    Im not going into who ORIGINALLY started this because it goes too far back and tbh is irrelevant now to me.

    This current conflict, operation defensive edge (May 2014 onwards) is an Israeli military offensive against Hamas in Gaza. It comes about as a result of the 3 Jews murdered in the West Bank during the very short lived ceasefire. A ceasefire which was never going to last anyway, it was equally likely to be either side to break it, just happened to be Israel this time. Israel jumped the gun and used it as an excuse to attack Hamas without appropriate evidence. Hamas then responded with more rockets.

    Israel have demonstrated they do not have the capability to reliably strike military targets with accuracy, now that is established they should cease the ineffective air strikes. Retaliation is entirely understandable but not that way. I think Israel should concentrate on the ground invasion to stifle Hamas launch activity, until international pressure forces a ceasefire. The UN need to raise the stakes for both parties forcing them into a ceasefire. Trouble with this is, I get the impression some Israeli military personnel, no...not all of them, are essentially radically anti-Arab and will end up carrying out atrocities in person rather than by air strikes, albeit on a smaller scale. Also, that given the intensity of anti-Israel feeling in Palestine among not only the Hamas members but unaffiliated civilians, it would lead to a guerrilla war of IEDs and suicide bombings.

    The only resolution to this is for the UN to make war untenable for both sides and force a peace treaty. I won't pretend I'm equipped with the experience or knowledge of how or what the UN can do to make that happen but I believe it is the only way. That said, while people like Tony Blair are in charge of that it won't happen.
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    (Original post by Kasa)
    .

    Why is Ricky D not wearing his fedora?
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    Israel now killing its own citizens

    http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptN...0Q344720140728
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    Okay! Stop it! Enuff!

    I think it's time to take down the wall and let the civilians invade Israel

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-...ne-its-schools

    Interesting.

    So when this vacant school which is surrounded by other UN schools which serve as shelters is hit by the IDF, we will hear the usual propaganda 'IDF has hit a UN school, damaging two others and injuring civilians.'

    I wonder why the IDF, those evil creatures, would randomly bomb a school! It couldn't POSSIBLY be because they've placed weapons in a civilian area, could it? (An example of using human shields, for those unaware of it, by the way).
    It's been a common tactic of Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza for many years. It makes excellent propaganda—as apparent by reading anything on this thread or by attending any protest.

    "Israel murdering children", they cite. Blindly ignoring the reality.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Since when did something need to be proved to be non-existent for believing in it to be delusional? Just because you cannot prove that I do not have a dozen tiny, undetectable unicorns living in my pants, does not mean that I am not delusional.
    Also, aren't extraordinary claims supposed to be supported by evidence, not just accepted without question?

    Oh, by the way, Christianity and Islam are demonstrably false. The simple fact that the revealed word of god is wrong is enough proof (ie. if their holy books were really written by god, they would not contain any mistakes). Followers of those religions believe them to be true despite the evidence. They ignore reality when it contradicts unsupported dogma. That is why they are delusional.

    If you believe that the world is 6000 years old, you are delusional.
    If you believe that a man flew a winged horse to the seven heavens, you are delusional.
    If you believe that there was a flood that covered the entire planet to a depth of 12,000ft in human history, you are delusional.
    If you believe that every species on the planet was saved on a wooden boat, you are delusional.
    Etc, etc.
    Belief in the major monotheisms is a delusion.
    Just let me remind you of the definition you provided:

    (Original post by QE2)
    "Delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness, as in schizophrenia."
    Whilst I appreciate your claim that you don't need to provide evidence for God but rather religion must provide the evidence, your own definition seems to require that there be invalidating evidence.

    As for the specific claims you list, you will note, I hope, that religious people have tried to reconcile their religious beliefs with scientific observations and theories. Thus far from holding beliefs in spite of evidence, they are adapting to evidence.

    But all this is rather immaterial because anyone labelling religious people as mentally ill is a prick. End of.

    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    You are comparing something you have no comprehension of (how the world would be without religion) to something we can clearly see is that fault of religion today
    I didn't disagree that religion plays a major role in this current conflict. I disagree that it is a meaningful statement since if we imagine religion did not exist we cannot know what the world would look like. Moreover, if we imagine religion disappearing overnight tonight we would be bonkers to expect Israelis and Palestinians to be best friends in the morning.
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    They don't want peace and despite what America and some Zionist occupied Western governments say they have no intention of putting the foot down. If they want America could say hey Israel make peace or we'll stop funding. But who controls America's banking, finance and economics? The Jews.
 
 
 
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