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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Truth be told whilst their are no major economic benefits to joining the Euro, the disadvantage of not being able to set your own interest rates is rather overblown (there is no major inflation or deflation occurring as a result of having one currency), rather what has occurred is that the Euro has allowed nations with poor economic management to hide their problems by getting cheap funding and not undergoing economic restructuring, this is why fiscal integration is deeply needed and whilst some may complain at the harsh conditions Germany applies to its bailouts, at least it is forcing these nations to adopt policies that in the long term will pay off.

    The main advantage of the Eurozone is political power in that once Europe becomes a fully sovereign political power it will have an immense say on the global stage and the UK when in conflict will be completely overwritten, there is also the integration argument. A similar block is in the offing in South America which will emerge as a power should they go all the way.

    Personally i would not be opposed provided that nessesary reforms are undertaken both economic and political and the UK retains power over taxation.

    I will say however that the Eurozone is certainly not optimum in my opinion and the perfect block would consist of nations with long term trade surpluses, fiscal deficit below 3% over the long term and national debt below 70% over the long term. (when i say long term i mean over 10 years).

    In summary, status-quo will do for now however once Europe becomes fully federal and sovereign we should have a proper in-out referendum.
    I don't see why we would want a massive say on the global stage what benefit does it offer ordinary UK citizens? All it does is give EU politicians some sort of illusion that they are important. Most big players on the international stage are big players because of their military strength. We would have to massively increase military spending across Europe.
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    (Original post by SamF1992)
    This is a really good post, pretty spot on imo.
    Thanks, i should also point out that Spain and Greece even before the Euro never had exports making up a sizeable part of their economy so devaluing would be unlikely to help.

    (Original post by lambert1)
    I don't see why we would want a massive say on the global stage what benefit does it offer ordinary UK citizens? All it does is give EU politicians some sort of illusion that they are important. Most big players on the international stage are big players because of their military strength. We would have to massively increase military spending across Europe.
    In an increasingly globalised world i believe that political power is very important, especially when you consider that we have historically maintained an active foreign policy and hold a seat on the UNSC. Like it or not but the EU is fairly important to the globe. Not particularly, the Eurozone has a military budget around the £100bn mark (combining France, Germany and a few others), has nukes, is a member of NATO, would hold a seat on the UNSC and would only really have to develop its own army.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    In an increasingly globalised world i believe that political power is very important, especially when you consider that we have historically maintained an active foreign policy and hold a seat on the UNSC. Like it or not but the EU is fairly important to the globe. Not particularly, the Eurozone has a military budget around the £100bn mark (combining France, Germany and a few others), has nukes, is a member of NATO, would hold a seat on the UNSC and would only really have to develop its own army.
    That is a pathetic military compared to what the US has or what China is aspiring to have. If we want the EU to eclipse both more investment will be needed. Why we want this massive political influence over countries in Africa etc still alludes me though. Why do we care about influencing their policies?
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    That is a pathetic military compared to what the US has or what China is aspiring to have. If we want the EU to eclipse both more investment will be needed. Why we want this massive political influence over countries in Africa etc still alludes me though. Why do we care about influencing their policies?
    Fair point, but it would not be difficult to enlarge a federal defence budget.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Fair point, but it would not be difficult to enlarge a federal defence budget.
    I don't see the point though we share the same values as the US so why bother? Why not just carry on like we have since WW2?
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    I don't see the point though we share the same values as the US so why bother? Why not just carry on like we have since WW2?
    The EU and USA really are not that different nowadays (the northern eastern states anyway) and as i say i value political power projection which would be enhanced as one of the largest nations in a political power block, sure i think the EU has its faults and would only support unification if adequate reforms took place but economic power is only one piece of the puzzle to me.

    Like it or not the world is unifying (albeit slowly) and it would not surprise me if we had an attempt at USA-Europe unification in fifty years time.

    The EU is a castle and the UK a house next to its land, to me the choice seems to be do i wish to live in the castle where all the political class make hay or be the small but prosperous house next to the castle.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The EU and USA really are not that different nowadays (the northern eastern states anyway) and as i say i value political power projection which would be enhanced as one of the largest nations in a political power block, sure i think the EU has its faults and would only support unification if adequate reforms took place but economic power is only one piece of the puzzle to me.

    Like it or not the world is unifying (albeit slowly) and it would not surprise me if we had an attempt at USA-Europe unification in fifty years time.

    The EU is a castle and the UK a house next to its land, to me the choice seems to be do i wish to live in the castle where all the political class make hay or be the small but prosperous house next to the castle.
    In any end game 1 world government scenario we would be screwed over. China and India vastly outnumber us and our 70 million or so population in the future will give us virtually no political power. In a world without welfare (yes welfare would not be possible there are simply too many poor people) where the masses determine the political outcome of the world communism is a real possibility. A more global world will make us in the UK poorer as it opens up the doors to competition for the limited jobs available. It gives smart people in poor countries etc the equal opportunity to excel meaning more British people have to move to lower paid jobs.

    Now back in the real world why does it matter how powerful the country you live in is? China is more powerful than the UK so what? What I and the people care about is how much money we earn not how many countries the government is capable of invading. We should not be going to war and situations like Syria we are already capable of dealing with if we really want war that much.
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    Would Labour back an EU referendum with three options (In, out, renegotiate)?


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by levellingmcs)
    Would Labour back an EU referendum with three options (In, out, renegotiate)?


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    I don't get the whole renegotiate bit it should be split into 2 questions if that is the case.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    I don't get the whole renegotiate bit it should be split into 2 questions if that is the case.
    Renegotiate which powers we give to Europe, trading agreements, human rights etc...



    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    One question: IN or OUT

    None of this renegotiation business and which areas malarkey
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    One question: IN or OUT
    :sexface:
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    In.

    (Shake it all about).
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    (Original post by TopHat)
    In.

    (Shake it all about).
    Haha. Is the maccarena next?
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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Haha. Is the maccarena next?
    Welcome to the Y, M, C, A!

    Say what you like about the Labour Party, but we know how to shake that thang.
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    I would support a simple in/out referendum, none of this renegotiation business. If you do not agree with the powers of the EU in terms of transport etc then what is the point in calling for a renegotiation of terms, simply vote to leave the EU. This we want to stay in the EU but don't want Brussels dictating to us stance is not ideal. You can't have it both ways. As my honourable friend put it, in (shake it all about) haha
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    Should we leave the EU, what would the opinion of the labour party be on a Commonwealth free trade agreement (although the effectiveness may be somewhat reduced by the WFTZ agreement we now have on here.)
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    (Original post by Moleman1996)
    Should we leave the EU, what would the opinion of the labour party be on a Commonwealth free trade agreement (although the effectiveness may be somewhat reduced by the WFTZ agreement we now have on here.)
    Hi, I thank the Foreign Secretary for asking this question and visiting our thread. Personally, I strongly believe in the European Union, I believe the United Kingdom is better being part of the Union rather than being outside and isolated from European discussions. Speculating about our membership is not something I agree with, especially when no legislation or motion has been voted on calling for a referendum. On the issue of the CFTZ (which I assume you are referring to?), although the 2010 Bill did have some merits and strengthening our relationship with our Commonwealth friends is something I support, a lot of work needed to be done to that particular bill and importantly research needed to be done on the effects of CW trade and how much in terms of revenue is generated from trading with CW countries without barriers.

    If the Foreign Secretary is thinking of presenting a recycled version of the 2010 CFTZ Bill and use the Cannon Amendment to justify its passing, I suggest he thoroughly researches the figures behind how much revenue is generated from CW trade and what the cost effect of this Bill will be on the British economy. However as I have previously stated, I support Britain's EU membership and thus speculating on the continuation of our membership when no legislation or motion has been presented to the House regarding the matter is something I do not agree with.

    Also on the issue of the Cannon Amendment, although the amendment allows this House to overrule EU law, it does not stop members from thinking about how a particular Bill will effect our relationship with our EU friends, thus the CFTZ Bill in real life would be illegal and seriously damage our relationship with Europe, thus if I was a member of this House in 2010 I would have voted against the Bill.
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    (Original post by eff01)
    Hi, I thank the Foreign Secretary for asking this question and visiting our thread. Personally, I strongly believe in the European Union, I believe the United Kingdom is better being part of the Union rather than being outside and isolated from European discussions. Speculating about our membership is not something I agree with, especially when no legislation or motion has been voted on calling for a referendum. On the issue of the CFTZ (which I assume you are referring to?), although the 2010 Bill did have some merits and strengthening our relationship with our Commonwealth friends is something I support, a lot of work needed to be done to that particular bill and importantly research needed to be done on the effects of CW trade and how much in terms of revenue is generated from trading with CW countries without barriers.

    If the Foreign Secretary is thinking of presenting a recycled version of the 2010 CFTZ Bill and use the Cannon Amendment to justify its passing, I suggest he thoroughly researches the figures behind how much revenue is generated from CW trade and what the cost effect of this Bill will be on the British economy. However as I have previously stated, I support Britain's EU membership and thus speculating on the continuation of our membership when no legislation or motion has been presented to the House regarding the matter is something I do not agree with.

    Also on the issue of the Cannon Amendment, although the amendment allows this House to overrule EU law, it does not stop members from thinking about how a particular Bill will effect our relationship with our EU friends, thus the CFTZ Bill in real life would be illegal and seriously damage our relationship with Europe, thus if I was a member of this House in 2010 I would have voted against the Bill.
    Thanks for the answer, not thinking of submitting anything yet, but with more frequent calls for an EU referendum, and the possibility that one could happen sooner rather than later I'm just wondering what possibilites there would be should the TSR electorate vote to leave the EU
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    Would joining the EU make us more free?
 
 
 
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