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    (Original post by castlemadeofsand)
    It was witnessed by a Guardian journalist actually who was sat in the bar that the dying children were brought into.
    To be fair, I would count a Guardian journalist's evidence as flimsy as that of Hamas, given that the Guardian has been running a anti-Israel campaign for approximately 15 years against the state. It's been so virulent, that they even had to issue an apology a couple of years back because they assessed (after complaints) that their own journalists drifted into regular anti-semitism with their vitriol.

    In one instance, sarcastically referring to Israelis as the so-called "chosen ones" in inverted commas.

    So you'll excuse me if I consider the words of a Guardian journalist to mean less than nothing. They will gladly shaft Israel any chance they get.

    Anyway, I'm not sure why people seem so up in arms over this. As a conflict, it's a piddly one with few casualties. There's a conflict in Europe which doesn't seem to be getting much attention from the left wing and about 1,000 have died in that.

    It would take Israel about 100 years to catch up with Britain's tally of Arab/Muslim civilian kills in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Let's keep things in perspective.
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    (Original post by itsmyname)
    Holy crap there are people like this running Israel?

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-crisis...hitler-1456748
    She doesn't run Israel. She was quoting a 2002 statement made by a since deceased journalist which he made at the height of the suicide bombing campaign in which emotions were running high after the 'palestinians' saw fit to kill 30+ pensioners and holocaust survivors in a bombing whilst eating their passover meal.


    Erdogan is the last to talk. Only 18 months ago he wiped out a Kurdish village killing 200.

    You wouldn't know much about that since the left wing don't care unless Israel is involved.
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    Actually I've not more knowledge about this topic but I wanna discuss it nd want to increase my knowledge.. will u.plz help me for this lil bit confused.. Israeli are the one who always do bad things with the Palestinians but y r they defeating them now.. i m not understanding it.. nd all Muslim countries should support Gaza they are beating innocent people for no reason nd what's the story behind the west bank?
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    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    CNN: Israel drops leaflets warning Gaza residents to evacuate ahead of strikes

    Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israeli forces dropped leaflets in northern Gaza on Sunday to warn residents to move away from Hamas sites to avoid military strikes.

    Battle over 'human shields'

    Video on Hamas-run television showed a Hamas spokesman urging people to serve as human shields, CNN's Jake Tapper reported Thursday.

    Palestinian sources have also described some deaths in the conflict as being people who formed a "human shield."
    But former Palestinian adviser Diana Buttu told "The Lead with Jake Tapper" that she does not believe "people are going to listen to somebody who says stay inside while your house is being bombed."

    Hamas, the Palestinian militant group that controls Gaza, regularly uses sites and facilities populated by civilians.

    "The leadership of Hamas and the other organizations has chosen -- at a time when they are using the population of Gaza as human shields -- to hide under ground, to flee abroad and to deliberately put civilians in the line of fire," Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a Cabinet meeting Sunday.

    "This is the entire difference between us and Hamas -- we are using defensive systems against missiles to protect the residents of Israel, and they are using the residents of Gaza to protect arsenals of missiles. Nothing better underscores the difference in this campaign. Israel is a democracy that is fighting -- in a legitimate and focused manner -- against unbridled terrorists," he said.

    Throughout the conflict, Israel has warned Gaza residents of upcoming attacks targeting militants and terrorist infrastructure. On Twitter on Sunday, the IDF posted: "To warn civilians of an impending strike, the IDF drops leaflets, makes personalized phone calls & sends SMSes. How many militaries do that?"
    "Sirens heard across (Israel). Gaza terrorists are firing barrages of rockets. Israel is under attack," the IDF posted, with a photo asking "What would you do?"

    The leaflets told residents which roads were safe to take and gave a time frame. "The IDF is not interested in hurting you or your family members. These operations are limited and short. Whoever does not adhere to these instructions and does not vacate their house immediately is subjecting their lives and the lives of their children and family to danger," the leaflet said.

    The Israeli military said it also drops empty shells on roofs, an operation it calls "roof knocking," to alert civilians that airstrikes are imminent.
    What the ****? So Israel is destroying house, and proceeding into warfare, and they think they are doing a good job by informing people that they are coming to destroy their houses? Don't you see how this is just another excuse to invade Gaza?

    Hamas has gotten aggressive due to all the petty terrorism caused by Israel, my family friends had their house terrorized twice this year by Israelis, they stole all their money, and crossed back over the border. They say this is common occurrence. Don't you love how the media is siding with Israel despite the fact there are way more civilian casualties in Palestine? So what, if they're not moving out of their houses? They shouldn't have to, it's their land. Does that mean Israel should go ahead with the violence?

    And are you seriously quoting CNN, that's not biased at all, is it. Most of the information they have posted is from the IDF. Again, not biased at all, is it!?
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    For much of its history, the Palestinian lands were occupied by the Ottoman Empire up until 1921 when the Ottoman Empire, as a result of World War I and its over-extension crumbled whereby the European powers seized power over what was previously Ottoman lands.

    Palestine and Iraq were put under the control of the British Mandate where they were essentially governors over the region, centralized power and brokered deals and concessions to various tribes across the region.

    In the backdrop of this, anti-Semitism was rampant in Europe during the 19th century and former half of the 20th century. What was enshrined in political and social culture was a generally prejudice of the Jewish populace across Europe.

    As a consequence, in 1917, the "Balfour Declaration" was created which confirmed the support from the British government for a homeland of the Jewish people. Their objective was to establish a Jewish land in Palestine but at the same time not infringing the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish peoples living in the region.

    With the backdrop established, fast-forward to the Nuremberg trials -- a milestone event in international relations and law which drove home the message of international responsibility towards genocide and persecution under any creed - race, religion or ethnicity. As I'm sure you're aware, the Jewish people were subjected to Nazi Germany's policy called "The Final Solution" where over 6million Jews were killed in genocide to "purify" the Third Reich.

    This provided a catalyst for the establishment of the Jewish state, under the premise of the Balfour Declaration, to create a territory for Jewish people in the Palestinian lands, then under the control of the British Mandate.

    In 1947, the U.N. devised the Partition plan which split the territory into two for Palestinians and Israelis living in the region. In 1948, Arab countries rejected these plans and the Arab League formed together to destroy Israel. Israel became the victor and occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

    Ever since, there have been numerous conflicts which have changed the territorial borders -- the 1967 Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur War which have changed the landscape of the region which you can read into.

    Since Israel's occupation, numerous Palestinian national groups such as Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization have engaged in armed struggle using asymmetrical tactics and terrorism to "wear" the Israeli state down and amounting strength to engage Israel. The PLO have traditionally operated out of the West Bank.

    The HAMAS organization have traditionally operated out of Gaza. HAMAS are more of an umbrella organization that try to politically represent the Palestinian people in an armed struggle against Israel but should be taken with a pinch of salt. They are internally fractured and factionalized.

    In recent times, HAMAS most notably have used rockets to destabalize the Israeli state which are fired out of Gaza. In response, Israel has made it an objective to destroy these munitions and the travel corridors which lead to the equipment required to assemble these weapons, which is largely why the blockade is in place.

    In 2008. Operation Cast Lead was an Israeli ground operation to invade Gaza and search and destroy weapon caches, rocket platforms and individual leaders of interest which could be used against Israel. However, Israeli's consistent over-proportionality coupled with its insistence to move Jewish settlers into "occupied" territory has more or less added to HAMAS' narrative and invigorated popular support.

    And that is the basic history, I'm sure I've left out a few things but generally gives you an idea of why they are fighting today.
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    (Original post by Mr.Obsessed)
    What the ****? So Israel is destroying house, and proceeding into warfare, and they think they are doing a good job by informing people that they are coming to destroy their houses? Don't you see how this is just another excuse to invade Gaza?
    Invade Gaza? Israel doesn't want Gaza. Israel left Gaza.

    If Israel wanted to invade Gaza, they could so so in about 2 hours (and that's with being cautious)





    Hamas has gotten aggressive due to all the petty terrorism caused by Israel, my family friends had their house terrorized twice this year by Israelis,
    Ah right, you views are skewed by religion and bias.

    I won't go any further as it will be a waste of time.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Ah right, you views are skewed by religion and bias.

    I won't go any further as it will be a waste of time.
    Do you just get a lump sum or do they pay per post?

    Israel To Pay Students For Pro-Israeli Social Media Propaganda
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    (Original post by *Dreamer*)
    I know this is going to appear really ignorant, but could someone explain to me relatively simply (and objectively) what is going on? Obviously I hear alot about it in the news but I don't really understand the basis behind it? Any decent explanatory links are welcomed too.

    Thanks (and apologies again for my ignorance )
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pKMV6e5kEo
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    Thanks for telling now I can understand what is the story behind it
    .
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Invade Gaza? Israel doesn't want Gaza. Israel left Gaza.

    If Israel wanted to invade Gaza, they could so so in about 2 hours (and that's with being cautious)







    Ah right, you views are skewed by religion and bias.

    I won't go any further as it will be a waste of time.
    Have you read the news lately? They will be invading Gaza.

    Excuse me? How are my views skewed my religion and bias, what makes you think I am religious in the first place? That's incredibly ignorant, these things happen, I'm not making them up. It's not fair.
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    Thanks for telling this.. (:
    (Original post by VeniViciVidi)
    For much of its history, the Palestinian lands were occupied by the Ottoman Empire up until 1921 when the Ottoman Empire, as a result of World War I and its over-extension crumbled whereby the European powers seized power over what was previously Ottoman lands.

    Palestine and Iraq were put under the control of the British Mandate where they were essentially governors over the region, centralized power and brokered deals and concessions to various tribes across the region.

    In the backdrop of this, anti-Semitism was rampant in Europe during the 19th century and former half of the 20th century. What was enshrined in political and social culture was a generally prejudice of the Jewish populace across Europe.

    As a consequence, in 1917, the "Balfour Declaration" was created which confirmed the support from the British government for a homeland of the Jewish people. Their objective was to establish a Jewish land in Palestine but at the same time not infringing the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish peoples living in the region.

    With the backdrop established, fast-forward to the Nuremberg trials -- a milestone event in international relations and law which drove home the message of international responsibility towards genocide and persecution under any creed - race, religion or ethnicity. As I'm sure you're aware, the Jewish people were subjected to Nazi Germany's policy called "The Final Solution" where over 6million Jews were killed in genocide to "purify" the Third Reich.

    This provided a catalyst for the establishment of the Jewish state, under the premise of the Balfour Declaration, to create a territory for Jewish people in the Palestinian lands, then under the control of the British Mandate.

    In 1947, the U.N. devised the Partition plan which split the territory into two for Palestinians and Israelis living in the region. In 1948, Arab countries rejected these plans and the Arab League formed together to destroy Israel. Israel became the victor and occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

    Ever since, there have been numerous conflicts which have changed the territorial borders -- the 1967 Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur War which have changed the landscape of the region which you can read into.

    Since Israel's occupation, numerous Palestinian national groups such as Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization have engaged in armed struggle using asymmetrical tactics and terrorism to "wear" the Israeli state down and amounting strength to engage Israel. The PLO have traditionally operated out of the West Bank.

    The HAMAS organization have traditionally operated out of Gaza. HAMAS are more of an umbrella organization that try to politically represent the Palestinian people in an armed struggle against Israel but should be taken with a pinch of salt. They are internally fractured and factionalized.

    In recent times, HAMAS most notably have used rockets to destabalize the Israeli state which are fired out of Gaza. In response, Israel has made it an objective to destroy these munitions and the travel corridors which lead to the equipment required to assemble these weapons, which is largely why the blockade is in place.

    In 2008. Operation Cast Lead was an Israeli ground operation to invade Gaza and search and destroy weapon caches, rocket platforms and individual leaders of interest which could be used against Palestine. However, Israeli's consistent over-proportionality coupled with its insistence to move Jewish settlers into "occupied" territory has more or less added to HAMAS' narrative and invigorated popular support.

    And that is the basic history, I'm sure I've left out a few things but generally gives you an idea of why they are fighting today.
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    (Original post by *Dreamer*)
    I know this is going to appear really ignorant, but could someone explain to me relatively simply (and objectively) what is going on? Obviously I hear alot about it in the news but I don't really understand the basis behind it? Any decent explanatory links are welcomed too.

    Thanks (and apologies again for my ignorance )
    Land of Israel formally Judea is invaded by Romans. Judea is taken over and many Jews thrown out.

    They rename the region in order to rid it of its Jewish identity. (this is where it all begins)

    The region ends up being called 'palestine'

    'palestine' ends up being handed on from empire to empire.

    The Arabic language evolves and with that, a new identity called 'Arabs'. With their new religion of Islam, they quickly invade and conquer the middle east - settling in what is now Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and what was already Egypt.

    'palestine' remained a fairly sparsely populated region with Jews and Arabs.

    Under Ottoman rule, the Jews were invited back in numbers - as the Ottomans believed this would be good for business/economy.

    When the economic situation in 'palestine' began to improve, the Arabs from surrounding countries started to migrate in for labour.

    Jews began buying land in the region.

    Then comes the British empire and kicks Ottomans out.

    The Brits rule 'palestine' and promise to create a Jewish state (which would inevitably create an Arab one too)

    The Arabs outnumber the Jews in 'palestine' mainly because of the culture of having many kids.

    The Brits don't want to anger the Arab population, so tend to favour them over the Jews.

    At this point, Arab nationalism starts to develop and as they see Jews migrate in from Europe - get a bit upset and start attacking them.

    This leads to the Arab revolt against the British and Jews

    In order to placate the volatile Arabs, the Brits take measures against Jewish immigration despite the fact that Arab immigration was still going on. The Brits disarmed the Jews but allowed the Arabs to stay armed - leaving them as sitting ducks.

    Brits prevented fleeing Holocaust survivors from entering 'palestine'.

    Jews then mount their own revolt against the Brits - with that, the Brits get fed up and hand over the mandate of 'palestine' to the UN.

    The UN decides it's best for both Arabs and Jews to have a state. i.e two state solution.

    The original 'palestine' included Trans-Jordan.

    Arabs were offered 78% whilst Jews got 22%

    Jews accepted, Arabs rejected.

    Jordan was born out of 'palestine'

    The UN tried again to create two states and put it to a vote.

    The UN voted in favour of creating Israel - the Arabs rejected.

    In 1948, A multi-national Arab army invaded the new Israel with the promise of wiping them out.

    The Israelis win.

    The 'west bank' (which had been part of Judea) went to Jordan.

    Gaza, went to Egypt.

    The 'palestinian' identity begins to take hold at this point, but not with everyone - as in the 1960's with Arab nationalism at its highest - so many Arabs refused the idea of a 'palestinain' identity.

    "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not". - Philip K. Hitti, an Arab, a professor at Princeton University, and author of the authoritative "The Arabs", testifying at the 1946 Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry.

    "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria". - said to the UN Security Council in 1956 by Ahmed Shukeiry, who later founded the PLO - the Palestine Liberation Organization.
    In 1964 the PLO (palestinian liberation organisation) is born. Even though it's Jordan and Egypt occupying the West Bank and Gaza, it's not they who come in for attacks by Arabs (now under Arafat calling themselves 'palestinain' despite the fact he was Egyptian)

    Throughout all of this, Israel is suffering daily attacks. Usually shooting attacks from the Golan heights and Lebanon.

    In 1967 Abdel Nasser (Egyptian leader) - a very ardent Arab nationalist decides the Arabs will invade Israel. They had spent two years ratcheting up tensions and promising to "drench the desert with Jewish blood"

    On June 5th 1967 As the Egyptians and Syrians are amassing to invade, Israel strikes pre-emptively. Israel tells Jordan not to get involved, but Jordan are duped/pressured into joining. This is important, because this is where the 'West Bank' comes from.

    Israel defeats the Arab armies in 6 days, capturing Gaza from Egypt, west bank from Jordan and Golan heights from Syria.

    A few days later, Israel makes tentative attempts to conduct peace talks and return of land

    On September 1st 1967, the Arab leaders met in Khartoum and delivered what is now known as the "three no's"

    "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it."
    In 1973 the Arabs had another go at invading Israel. They almost succeeded, but were defeated just in time.

    Egypt and Jordan have since disowned the territories they lost. So the people on them now think they should have their own country.
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    (Original post by Mr.Obsessed)
    Have you read the news lately? They will be invading Gaza.

    Excuse me? How are my views skewed my religion and bias, what makes you think I am religious in the first place? That's incredibly ignorant, these things happen, I'm not making them up. It's not fair.
    You're obviously personally involved. So there's no point in me making an effort to explain things when your mind has been set.

    If they do 'invade' Gaza, it will be temporary.

    I would suggest stopping rocket firing on Israel would be the sensible move before that happens - but Hamas seem intent on carrying on because their intention is to tarnish Israel and isolate them by using their dead as propaganda.

    The leadership is in a bunker under a hospital whilst the people are above ground facing the brunt of it.

    In Israel, the people are in the bunkers and the soldiers are above ground facing the brunt of it.

    See the difference?
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    You're obviously personally involved. So there's no point in me making an effort to explain things when your mind has been set.

    If they do 'invade' Gaza, it will be temporary.

    I would suggest stopping rocket firing on Israel would be the sensible move before that happens - but Hamas seem intent on carrying on because their intention is to tarnish Israel and isolate them by using their dead as propaganda.

    The leadership is in a bunker under a hospital whilst the people are above ground facing the brunt of it.

    In Israel, the people are in the bunkers and the soldiers are above ground facing the brunt of it.

    See the difference?

    Why is IDF attacking the civilians then? I don't see how you can justify war either way.
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    (Original post by Mr.Obsessed)
    Why is IDF attacking the civilians then? I don't see how you can justify war either way.
    They aren't attacking civilians. The civilians casualty rate has been very low given how dense Gaza is and that Hamas uses civilian areas to attack from within.

    Israel has carried out something like 1,100 strikes from land, sea and air.


    By the way, an Israeli home was hit by a mortar during the ceasefire just now. The reason the entire family is not dead, is because they're in shelters.


    You know who else is in shelters? the Hamas leadership. Whilst the people are forced to fend for themselves.

    More civilians have died in Ukraine.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Ah right, you views are skewed by religion and bias.

    I won't go any further as it will be a waste of time.
    :rofl: Given your post history this is hilarious. 100% Israeli propaganda.
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    Local channels report Israel has just shelled Eastern Rafah.
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    (Original post by Mr.Obsessed)
    Why is IDF attacking the civilians then? I don't see how you can justify war either way.
    The war is justified because Israel is being attacked by Hamas. Do you expect them to just sit there and take it?
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    (Original post by james22)
    The war is justified because Israel is being attacked by Hamas. Do you expect them to just sit there and take it?
    So who "started it"? HAMAS?
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    Nobody would object to the Allied bombing of Berlin in WWII. Nobody would call England an "Terrorist State" because it knowingly allowed innocent civilians to be killed. Only the most sentimental little soul is so naive to think that in war innocent people won't be killed.

    Imagine IF it were Hamas with the Iron Dome, Hamas with the military superpower, Hamas with the Nuclear weapons. Israel would be ashes and dust by sundown, and issues of "humanitarianism" would be spat upon by these so called "freedom fighters" we so ignorantly praise. How anybody in the educated west can sympathise with Islamic Jihadists who not only kill innocent Israelis but WILLINGLY sacrifice innocent Palestinians in the name of this "holy war", is beyond reason.
 
 
 
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