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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    And when did I say that you shouldn't work hard to obtain the best grades possible.

    All I was doing, was marely pointing out that the current selection process is ****.

    For example, I am not the smartest guy academically in the world, I did not go to Oxford. But I have real business acumen which can benefit a corporate company if I had worked for one. I can think outside the box. But they wouldn't know that, because my app will be filtered out at the app stage for those corporates that have a Primary school/GCSE/UCAS point cut off

    So your earlier comments about hiring the best is subjective. At the end of the day, it's not about grades, it's about making money - in this case helping a corporate make money.
    We think we have, but we don't, i have no sense of organisation, i consider my self midtable. The people Tom Ford was talking about are the big guns £100k plus a year grads who will make partner or director by 25-26, ceo at a young age. I seem to tell you a heck of lot of things you don't know, i don't know that much in contrast to other people my age in those schemes.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    We think we have, but we don't, i have no sense of organisation, i consider my self midtable. The people Tom Ford was talking about are the big guns £100k plus a year grads who will make partner or director by 25-26, ceo at a young age. I seem to tell you a heck of lot of things you don't know, i don't know that much in contrast to other people my age in those schemes.
    It wasn't that long ago, the financial sector was letting in people like Nick Leeson (who has a degree from Middlesex uni). He worked for barrings bank.

    Ok fair enough, he turned out to be a bad egg, but I am sure there were many others that were not Oxbridge educated that got by fine.

    This ucas points **** is a recent phenomena.

    The corporate system tbh has done a great job in brainwashing young people this way - so that they can justify their **** policies.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    And when did I say that you shouldn't work hard to obtain the best grades possible.

    All I was doing, was marely pointing out that the current selection process is ****.

    For example, I am not the smartest guy academically in the world, I did not go to Oxford. But I have real business acumen which can benefit a corporate company if I had worked for one.
    I can think outside the box. But they wouldn't know that, because my app will be filtered out at the app stage for those corporates that have a Primary school/GCSE/UCAS point cut off

    So your earlier comments about hiring the best is subjective. At the end of the day, it's not about grades, it's about making money - in this case helping a corporate make money.
    These are huge companies , I think they know how best to pick their people to make the most money don't you think?

    You keep missing the fact that they have the luxury of choice over many many many applicants. Even for a firm like Unilever, they have 160 applications for one place. They need to cut down the candidate list and UCAS points are an effective way to do this. Also you seem to forget, other people have real business acumen too, and great grades. There are many many people who have what you have in terms of experience and also great consistent grades to back it up.

    So, as I said before, the grades are the bare minimum.

    And since you mentioned IBM. You applied to IBM yes? They rejected you and so did Logica so obviously my point stands, people have what you have AND great grades.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    It wasn't that long ago, the financial sector was letting in people like Nick Leeson (who has a degree from Middlesex uni). He worked for barrings bank.

    Ok fair enough, he turned out to be a bad egg, but I am sure there were many others that were not Oxbridge educated that got by fine.

    This ucas points **** is a recent phenomena.
    I don't like it either, but you have to play the game. Im 26 and ive retaken if i want a AAB scheme i will retake to get that second A!
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    I got a first and I can't get volunteer jobs! It's a useless degree, but still, this is tragic.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    I can't talk for other fields.

    But if IBM, a blue chip can still do well (recently have a business partnership with Apple) and not ask for UCAS points. That says it all.

    The fact is you are academically overqualified for most grad jobs.

    If you want something very academically intensive, I have news for you - become an academic.

    HR have no excuse to be lazy with their recruitment, unless they want a certain type of person working for them. Generally those who have had the best starts in life.
    This is how I know you have never worked in a graduate scheme before. You do know that large parts of graduate schemes require academic study right?
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    (Original post by Tom_Ford)
    These are huge companies , I think they know how best to pick their people to make the most money don't you think?

    You keep missing the fact that they have the luxury of choice over many many many applicants. Even for a firm like Unilever, they have 160 applications for one place. They need to cut down the candidate list and UCAS points are an effective way to do this. Also you seem to forget, other people have real business acumen too, and great grades. There are many many people who have what you have in terms of experience and also great consistent grades to back it up.
    I always said this was the problem.

    So, as I said before, the grades are the bare minimum.

    And since you mentioned IBM. You applied to IBM yes? They rejected you and so did Logica so obviously my point stands, people have what you have AND great grades.
    Got to the final round.

    Like you got rejected.

    But I passed their aptitude tests, so it was not like I was not intelligent enough for the roles. I just wasn't what they were looking for at that point in time. And I am thankful for both companies for giving me the chance to apply.
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    (Original post by xDave-)
    I got a first and I can't get volunteer jobs! It's a useless degree, but still, this is tragic.
    Get on linked in contact Directors and Ceos, they are accessible people, how do you think people sell them ****. There contact details are on there, its a numbers game.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    I always said this was the problem.



    Got to the final round.

    Like you got rejected.

    But I passed their aptitude tests, so it was not like I was not intelligent enough for the roles. I just wasn't what they were looking for at that point in time. And I am thankful for both companies for giving me the chance to apply.

    Aptitude tests like grades are just one part of the requirement. You need everything. Because if you don't someone else has.
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    (Original post by Tom_Ford)
    This is how I know you have never worked in a graduate scheme before. You do know that large parts of graduate schemes require academic study right?
    Sloane is working in BA, he described his job role earlier.

    Excel, SPSS.

    IF you think that justifies extreme level of intelligence, you are very deluded.

    And for tech, grad scheme or not, you will always be learning.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    Sloane is working in BA, he described his job role earlier.

    Excel, SPSS.

    IF you think that justifies extreme level of intelligence, you are very deluded.
    I have to talk to directors and ceo in a consultative role, i screw with people heads with psychological methods. That i have learnt through studying and im constantly learning new methods, you wouldn't even learn the straight line persuasion. Ive had to spent hundreds of hours learning different psychological techniques, you couldn't even master one. Ive seen you fail to hold conversations with simpletons that ive walked over at will. Imagine trying to talking to for example charles hoares, owner of hoares bank (private bank). People like that would crush you. Those programs are what i send things to people, for me to send something i have to instigate it lol. If i dont what purpose do those useless programs do for me its like a plain sheet of paper.
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    (Original post by Tom_Ford)
    Aptitude tests like grades are just one part of the requirement. You need everything. Because if you don't someone else has.
    Make up your mind, are you talking about intelligence or other variables.

    The IBM aptitude test is hard. A LOT of people fail it. IBM have deliberately done it that way to make sure they can weed people out. Their selection process if rigorous.

    If you are thick, you won't even pass them.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    Sloane is working in BA, he described his job role earlier.

    Excel, SPSS.

    IF you think that justifies extreme level of intelligence, you are very deluded.

    Most reputable graduate roles require part time academic study. Look at the NHS business grad schemes, look at the accountancy/big four ones. Look at the legal profession.

    2.1 and ABB is not an extreme level of intelligence. It is the bare minimum because of competition. I can fairly say that I am mid tier when you consider that there are people with degrees and experiences from places like Oxbridge, Ivy's , LSE etc. These are the unis that require high UCAS points to get into... and employers obviously feel that the grads from these places are high quality and will make them a lot of money. History suggests that they are correct in their assumptions.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    Make up your mind, are you talking about intelligence or other variables.

    The IBM aptitiude test is hard. A LOT of people fail it. IBM have deliberately done it that way to make sure they can weed people out..

    If you are thick, you won't even pass them.
    Most places what a character that will fit in and won't mess with their culture. Each business has its own ideals, i don't fit into many. You might fit into one i don't but for you to find out you need a competitive set of grades to see. Those psychometric tests show what kind of character you have, remember choosing words to describe yourself. Those are proven methods.

    Btw high end sales people get people to do things they don't want to do without psychologically knowing it. There is so much gamesmanship its like a battlefield, heck of lot of strategy.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    I have to talk to directors and ceo in a consultative role, i screw with people heads with psychological methods. That i have learnt through studying and im constantly learning new methods, you wouldn't even learn the straight line persuasion. Ive had to spent hundreds of hours learning different psychological techniques, you couldn't even master one. Ive seen you fail to hold conversations with simpletons that ive walked over at will. Imagine trying to talking to for example charles hoares, owner of hoares bank (private bank). People like that would crush you. Those programs are what i send things to people, for me to send something i have to instigate it lol. If i dont what purpose do those useless programs do for me its like a plain sheet of paper.
    I don't work in sales.

    I am a techie.

    In the same way I can argue with you and say you know **** all about object oriented programming. Unfair comparison.

    And what you do is no different to what a lot of other sales people do who need to pitch to clients.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    Make up your mind, are you talking about intelligence or other variables.

    The IBM aptitude test is hard. A LOT of people fail it. IBM have deliberately done it that way to make sure they can weed people out. Their selection process if rigorous.

    If you are thick, you won't even pass them.

    As I said, you need both to pass on the aptitude tests AND have great grades because the employer needs something meritocratic to base a decision from. True, you can pass the test and well done. But so can guy B. Guy B also has stellar grades and has equal if not better experience to you. Guy B also may be better working in their teams, a better fit. See where I'm going with this... the other guys are simply better so they got the job.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    I don't work in sales.

    I am a techie.

    In the same way I can argue with you and say you know **** all about object oriented programming. Unfair comparison.

    And what you do is no different to what a lot of other sales people do who need to pitch to clients.
    You can't build rapport if you don't read or get along with people. Mirroring someone only goes so far and this hi how are you bs is only going to get you so far. So learning the psychology behind how people think in training is crucial, its always changing. That is why you need to be academic and yes i still get homework,lol. Every company has L &D you work for your uncle he wouldn't do that, if i dont do it, its a disciplinary.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Most places what a character that will fit in and won't mess with their culture. Each business has its own ideals, i don't fit into many. You might fit into one i don't but for you to find out you need a competitive set of grades to see. Those psychometric tests show what kind of character you have, remember choosing words to describe yourself. Those are proven methods.

    Btw high end sales people get people to do things they don't want to do without psychologically knowing it. There is so much gamesmanship its like a battlefield, heck of lot of strategy.
    And I passed them.

    Interviews are subjective, which is why Tom Ford, and many other grads are struggling to break into even the lesser firms.
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    Why the obsession with working for "corporates"? Plenty of other positions out there...
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    You can't build rapport if you don't read or get along with people. Mirroring someone only goes so far and this hi how are you bs is only going to get you so far. So learning the psychology behind how people think in training is crucial, its always changing. That is why you need to be academic and yes i still get homework,lol.
    Some of the best sales people I know mate, are not academics.

    Look at socialnoob, he does sales too, gets taught similar sales techniques as you, but doesn't have ALs.

    Your job does not require a high level of academia, whatever way you dress it, it requires good social skills and from my knowledge there is not an AL in Social skills, is there?

    Stop making your job sound better then it is.
 
 
 
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