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Congratulations to the Greek left! The movement against austerity.... Watch

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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    It is/was Italy, Spain and Portugal.
    That's why a Grexit will have markets preemptively attacking all the above.I am thinking it ll be a matter of weeks before Portugal exits with Spain and Italy following.
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    (Original post by Psych34)
    That's why a Grexit will have markets preemptively attacking all the above.I am thinking it ll be a matter of weeks before Portugal exits with Spain and Italy following.
    Spain won't leave, it's turned the corner.

    Portugal should have gone with Greece at the beginning.

    Italy has a primary surplus like Greece has now, it could do anything.
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    (Original post by Psych34)
    That's why a Grexit will have markets preemptively attacking all the above.I am thinking it ll be a matter of weeks before Portugal exits with Spain and Italy following.
    But they're not making any threats to renage on their debt commitments.

    The amazing thing is that the Greek economy was starting to see some real improvements. Voting in a populist government has set them backwards.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Spain won't leave, it's turned the corner.

    Portugal should have gone with Greece at the beginning.

    Italy has a primary surplus like Greece has now, it could do anything.
    Well nah not really.Once we'll have a full blown Grexit coupled with the political crisis SYRIZA can bring on the democracy front we'll have to reevaluate.

    I am thinking the Eurozone will defo collapse collectively once a disorderly Grexit starts.
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    (Original post by Psych34)
    Well nah not really.Once we'll have a full blown Grexit coupled with the political crisis SYRIZA can bring on the democracy front we'll have to reevaluate.

    I am thinking the Eurozone will defo collapse collectively once a disorderly Grexit starts.
    What makes you say that?

    The other problem children don't want to leave. I think you're over playing the Greek economy. They've been prettying isolated financially since this all began. It's been treated like a bad debt. It doesn't really matter If they default.
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    Myths and Misconceptions about the Greek Crisis.

    http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite3_1_08/12/2011_417884


    http://www.socsci.uci.edu/~sskaperd/...ythsWP1011.pdf

    https://greekleftreview.wordpress.co...k-debt-crisis/

    This is for all of those claiming that Greece should've never joined the euro, lived beyond their means like a spoilt child, and all the like. For your own information and education, I implore you all to read at least one of the links provided above. There is undeniable evidence that throughout the crisis, Greece has undergone a disproportionate amount of scapegoating for problems that were not necessarily of her own fault. It's much better to make the crisis seem like entirely Greece's own fault, than to have potential flaws in the European Concept exposed to international markets.
    The fact that there is even a Wikipedia page dedicated to the Misconceptions in regards to the Crisis must be saying something. Frankly, I am surprised at just how persistent these myths have proven to be. For the love of god people, inform yourselves.

    Thank you.
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    (Original post by AVGA17)
    Myths and Misconceptions about the Greek Crisis.

    http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite3_1_08/12/2011_417884


    http://www.socsci.uci.edu/~sskaperd/...ythsWP1011.pdf

    https://greekleftreview.wordpress.co...k-debt-crisis/

    This is for all of those claiming that Greece should've never joined the euro, lived beyond their means like a spoilt child, and all the like. For your own information and education, I implore you all to read at least one of the links provided above. There is undeniable evidence that throughout the crisis, Greece has undergone a disproportionate amount of scapegoating for problems that were not necessarily of her own fault. It's much better to make the crisis seem like entirely Greece's own fault, than to have potential flaws in the European Concept exposed to international markets.
    The fact that there is even a Wikipedia page dedicated to the Misconceptions in regards to the Crisis must be saying something. Frankly, I am surprised at just how persistent these myths have proven to be. For the love of god people, inform yourselves.

    Thank you.
    Anybody can set up a Wikipedia page.

    The myths are persistent because they're real.

    The Greek Eco only is a basket case. The Greek people have now voted in a populist party who are sending the Greek people on the road to ruin.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Anybody can set up a Wikipedia page.

    The myths are persistent because they're real.

    The Greek Eco only is a basket case. The Greek people have now voted in a populist party who are sending the Greek people on the road to ruin.
    Did you even bother clicking any of the links?
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    (Original post by AVGA17)
    Did you even bother clicking any of the links?
    Yep.

    pro syriza websites.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Yep.

    pro syriza websites.
    ekathimerini is a centre-right Greek newspaper. The biggest in circulation. They are more likely to be Pro-Golden Dawn than pro-syriza. Besides, there is little Syriza/New Democracy dichotomy in dispelling misconceptions about the status of the greek economy and the nature of the crisis. In any case, even if they were pro-syriza, there is little room for denying some very valid points made. Note how the articles are not politicised or debating matters open to interpretation, but rather seem keen on calling a spade a spade and citing facts which are immune to politically motivated sugarcoating.
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    (Original post by AVGA17)
    ekathimerini is a centre-right Greek newspaper. The biggest in circulation. They are more likely to be Pro-Golden Dawn than pro-syriza. Besides, there is little Syriza/New Democracy dichotomy in dispelling misconceptions about the status of the greek economy and the nature of the crisis. In any case, even if they were pro-syriza, there is little room for denying some very valid points made. Note how the articles are not politicised or debating matters open to interpretation, but rather seem keen on calling a spade a spade and citing facts which are immune to politically motivated sugarcoating.
    Greek left review?

    It's like our resident holcaust denying anti semite linking to brother Nathaniel.

    I'll keep away from Greek domestic news outlets on this one.

    Turkeys don't vote for christmas
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Greek left review?

    It's like our resident holcaust denying anti semite linking to brother Nathaniel.

    I'll keep away from Greek domestic news outlets on this one.

    Turkeys don't vote for christmas

    I would like you to make an effort to address at least some of the points made and refute them with proven facts before I can accept your opinion as anything more than pure short-sightedness.
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    (Original post by AVGA17)
    I would like you to make an effort to address at least some of the points made and refute them with proven facts before I can accept your opinion as anything more than pure short-sightedness.
    http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-1023365.html

    http://m.spiegel.de/international/ge...a-1023474.html

    I tend to listen to the organ grinder and not the monkey.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-1023365.html

    http://m.spiegel.de/international/ge...a-1023474.html

    I tend to listen to the organ grinder and not the monkey.
    Not trusting Greek internal outlets yet devoting complete trust to internal German outlets, I see. I hope that you as well can see the glaring double standard in the premise. You're simply choosing a side rather than looking at the situation from a rational, third party viewpoint, as would be best. I cannot blame you and I won't attempt to. You're free to pick your own side but if you want your decision to have at least some objectivity behind it, take a step back and make extensive use of your critical thinking. I trust that you are a very intelligent person and very capable of doing so. Take this as friendly advice. Reconsider your stance and take new information into account. Don't dismiss anything out of personal bias without having scrutinized thoroughly. That is what I suggest you do with the new opinion that you were provided with. It is unfair to accuse a paper of populism while trusting another one that uses objectivity-lacking language of the type, and I quote "force the Greek government to see reason". You have nothing to loose, other than few minutes of your time
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    http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/17/news...ufakis-finger/
    Greece vs. Germany: It's getting really ugly

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    Just spotted this thread & wanted to mention a film called 'Oxi, an Act of Resistance' which anyone who's interested in the current situation in Greece might want to see. I love Greece & love the Greek people- so hospitable. For me the most poignant bit was near the end, where it shows individual clips of the Greeks themselves, not speaking, just looking at the camera. Very moving & thought-provoking.
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    I am just amazed at how much successful the spread of negativity by international media has been. Even outlets who do not have an immediate political interests in the issue (and one would assume that they would a more neutral stance) have been remarkably keen on painting a very false picture which sees the Greek govt and even the Greek people being greedy and viciously selfish and lazy, wanting to both have the pie and eat it. You can see it by the responses in this thread as well. I swear, some of the things I see are downright borderline racist. There is a vast plentyhood of data and actual scientific figures that explain not only the complexity of the current situation and dispels all common misconceptions in regards to the causes and context, but also the not so innocent involvement and interests that ALL parties have had. It almost seems like the there is a concerted effort to marginalise Greece and make the governmnet loose its 'mojo' by smearing as much negative publicity as possible. That's only a perception of mine though. And since I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, I will not lend too much credence to this theory myself either.
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    (Original post by AVGA17)
    I am just amazed at how much successful the spread of negativity by international media has been. Even outlets who do not have an immediate political interests in the issue (and one would assume that they would a more neutral stance) have been remarkably keen on painting a very false picture which sees the Greek govt and even the Greek people being greedy and viciously selfish and lazy, wanting to both have the pie and eat it. You can see it by the responses in this thread as well. I swear, some of the things I see are downright borderline racist. There is a vast plentyhood of data and actual scientific figures that explain not only the complexity of the current situation and dispels all common misconceptions in regards to the causes and context, but also the not so innocent involvement and interests that ALL parties have had. It almost seems like the there is a concerted effort to marginalise Greece and make the governmnet loose its 'mojo' by smearing as much negative publicity as possible. That's only a perception of mine though. And since I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, I will not lend too much credence to this theory myself either.
    It's quite simple. Saying something like 'austerity is needed' requires no justification or coherent well thought out argument to support it as it is mainstream accepted doctrine. This then just creates a cascade effect where it get to the point where a ludicrous claim that has very little actual evidence to back it up becomes an accepted truth among the majority of the population. It gets repeated so much that it makes its way into established 'fact' in most people's heads. 'Austerity is working and is the only way' is an example of one.

    Anyone who states something that isn't accepted dogma has to go through the rigorousness process of justifying their view point(which all they all should). Then even if they do they still get treated as looneys.

    That isn't a conspiracy theory. It is how politics works in liberal democracies.
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    (Original post by AVGA17)
    I am just amazed at how much successful the spread of negativity by international media has been. Even outlets who do not have an immediate political interests in the issue (and one would assume that they would a more neutral stance) have been remarkably keen on painting a very false picture which sees the Greek govt and even the Greek people being greedy and viciously selfish and lazy, wanting to both have the pie and eat it. You can see it by the responses in this thread as well. I swear, some of the things I see are downright borderline racist. There is a vast plentyhood of data and actual scientific figures that explain not only the complexity of the current situation and dispels all common misconceptions in regards to the causes and context, but also the not so innocent involvement and interests that ALL parties have had. It almost seems like the there is a concerted effort to marginalise Greece and make the governmnet loose its 'mojo' by smearing as much negative publicity as possible. That's only a perception of mine though. And since I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, I will not lend too much credence to this theory myself either.
    Thank god there are more people thinking like this. I couldn't agree more. I try to be as open-minded as possible but i get the idea that media (international media cause Greek media is ridiculous anyway) present a very very biased and false image of Greece, as you described, like we're greedy and money eaters and think we do nothing wrong and expect everything to be handed to us without deserving it. Just look at how many people believe that Germany is '' helping '' us, how many so called '' progressive, socialists and leftists '' support its policies. Somebody once told me that they even do us a favor, like '' Yeah Greece is irrelevant, just **** the people down there and make them suffer for mistakes the general population didn't commit ''. All i know is that there are people saying '' You Greeks stole our money etc ''. I'm talking as an everyday person, i didn't steal their money, people i know didn't steal their money, i have no idea to what happened to their money and to what happened to Greek peoples' money too, please differentiate what our politicians did to what the citizens did. After a while it gets tiring at fighting back and getting into arguments because Greeks are obviously biased towards Germany's policies and cannot think critically and independently you know? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It's quite simple. Saying something like 'austerity is needed' requires no justification or coherent well thought out argument to support it as it is mainstream accepted doctrine. This then just creates a cascade effect where it get to the point where a ludicrous claim that has very little actual evidence to back it up becomes an accepted truth among the majority of the population. It gets repeated so much that it makes its way into established 'fact' in most people's heads. 'Austerity is working and is the only way' is an example of one.

    Anyone who states something that isn't accepted dogma has to go through the rigorousness process of justifying their view point(which all they all should). Then even if they do they still get treated as looneys.

    That isn't a conspiracy theory. It is how politics works in liberal democracies.
    Preach it!!!
 
 
 
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