Plane crash: Germanwings A320 crashes in French Alps Watch

Drewski
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#281
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#281
(Original post by esbo)
So we are in the unsatisfactory position were those who may be at fault hold all the information in secrecy and can release whatever they like and it can't be checked.
Wrong. It can be checked, over and over again. And it will be checked. These reports are conducted as though they were a court case trying to gain a conviction.

(Original post by esbo)
A report done in secret by those who may well be at least in part responsible is worthless and dangerous.
Wrong. It is not done in secret. It is done in public, by public bodies, accountable to governments, not businesses.

Wrong. The organisations are in no way responsible.

(Original post by esbo)
Seems like they have hung onto this information for a long time before releasing it.

Is it acceptable that information realted to aircrast safety is withheld from the public?

It is just not acceptable to me the slow pace and delay when lives are at risk same goes for the secrecy.
Wrong. Everything has come out extremely quickly, from all parts, whether they be the French authorities or the German parent airline.

Slow pace? Not even a week has gone by and we know huge volumes of information that we can put into the proper context.

You are the only one who even thinks things are being withheld. There is not a single other person suggesting the theories you are wildly, and blindly, throwing about.

You are wrong. You have been proven wrong on many occasions. You don't understand the process, you don't understand how things work, and you blame your ignorance on other people hiding things. And then when people call you out on your lies, you accuse them of abuse.

Speaking as someone who trained as an aeronautical engineer and who has had friends die in plane crashes that were investigated thoroughly by these bodies/their equivalents, I find your accusations deeply offensive. They are without merit. They are without fact. They are without any basis in reality. Stop it.
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Kallisto
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#282
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What a tragic event. Especially I consider that the co-pilot intended to lead the passengers and hisself into death. I don't get it. No one gets it.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by shawn_o1)
OK so that probably means one of the cabin crew has been trained as a pilot or co-pilot?
There is no need for that at all. One of the pilots will leave the cockpit only when the autopilot is engaged and the baby-sitter's job is merely to stop the remaining pilot from locking the crew out and hijacking the plane, and to open to door if he becomes ill.
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Schleigg
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(Original post by EnolaGay)
No, not necessarily. Cabin crew receive some basic cockpit training as to what some controls do, where the safety equipment's are.. and so on. It could also be a flight engineer or a standby pilot stepping in. Doesn't have to be cabin crew, it varies with the company.
Only if we step back in time about twenty years :P
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digistar_100
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#285
Air Marshalls?
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jameswhughes
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(Original post by EnolaGay)
No, not necessarily. Cabin crew receive some basic cockpit training as to what some controls do, where the safety equipment's are.. and so on. It could also be a flight engineer or a standby pilot stepping in. Doesn't have to be cabin crew, it varies with the company.
I don't think anyone's going to be hiring extra pilots or flight engineers (this position was abolished in the 1980s on commercial airliners anyway) which would waste loads of space and money, for a job that will only take a couple of minutes. All that needs to happen is someone else to go in temporarily, so the pilot can't lock himself in alone like on Tuesday.
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skunkboy
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(Original post by Good bloke)
That is complete nonsense. Many events can be prevented. In this case, for instance better staff monitoring and two-man flight deck policy might have prevented the tragedy.
It's about probability. Many events depend on many factors. No one can control everything in real life. We can just do our best. So events like this one can occur at any time...anywhere.
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R£SP£CT
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A sincere question here. What would the reaction have been if the person was an Asian? What would you reaction have been? Same background entirely, just a difference in race. Thanks.
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Drewski)
When pilot / co-pilot needs the toilet, a member of the cabin crew steps in.
Member of the cabin? do you suggest there should be a third person in the cockpit whenever the pilot or co-pilot is alone, quasi a warden?
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Drewski
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(Original post by R£SP£CT)
A sincere question here. What would the reaction have been if the person was an Asian? What would you reaction have been? Same background entirely, just difference in race. Thanks.
Lots of people would have jumped to all kinds of wrongheaded conclusions.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Kallisto)
Member of the cabin? do you suggest there should be a third person in the cockpit, quasi a warden?
No, cabin crew = steward/stewardess. But only for short haul flights and only when one of the pilots needs to leave.

On long haul flights there will be a third pilot anyway, negating the issue.
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Scott.
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(Original post by esbo)
Which airfance flight are you referring to?
The one that crashed near Brazil.
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Drewski)
No, cabin crew = steward/stewardess. But only for short haul flights and only when one of the pilots needs to leave.

On long haul flights there will be a third pilot anyway, negating the issue.
That sounds good. Yeah, that can be helpful in the future to prevent such a horrible event. But that would mean that the requirements in steward/-ess education must be raised, right?
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Drewski
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(Original post by Kallisto)
That sounds good. Yeah, that can be helpful in the future to prevent such a horrible event. But that would mean that the requirements in steward/-ess education must be raised, right?
Why? How much education do you think it takes to stand in the cockpit for 5 minutes and know how to unlock a door? That's all that's involved in this. We're not asking them to be able to land the thing.

And let's not pretend that they're untrained in the first place.
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Drewski)
Why? How much education do you think it takes to stand in the cockpit for 5 minutes and know how to unlock a door? That's all that's involved in this. We're not asking them to be able to land the thing.

And let's not pretend that they're untrained in the first place.
It was just a thought. Just hypothetically there is a co-pilot again who starts the final descent in alps while a steward/-ess is in the cabin, does a steward/-ess has not to intervene? and in this moment, I thought, the steward/-ess has to handle the machines - the important ones at least.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Kallisto)
It was just a thought. Just hypothetically there is a co-pilot again who starts the final descent in alps while a steward/-ess is in the cabin, does a steward/-ess has not to intervene? and in this moment, I thought, the steward/-ess has to handle the machines - the important ones at least.
The guy only started the descent because he was on his own and because he could guarantee nobody else could get into the cockpit.

Put another person in the cockpit and then that first pilot isn't alone. They also can't lock out the other pilot.

The situation we saw over the alps would be impossible, simply by having another person to stand there for 5 mins.
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Drewski)
The guy only started the descent because he was on his own and because he could guarantee nobody else could get into the cockpit.

Put another person in the cockpit and then that first pilot isn't alone. They also can't lock out the other pilot.

The situation we saw over the alps would be impossible, simply by having another person to stand there for 5 mins.
That is right. He did it when he was alone. But could you really guarantee completely that no one would do it, if there is another person in the cabin?
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Drewski
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(Original post by Kallisto)
That is right. He did it when he was alone. But could you really guarantee completely that no one would do it, if there is another person in the cabin?
Even if they did start it, they still had 8 minutes while it descended. Do you really think the other person would not be able to open the door in that time?

It's not the fact that the guy started the descent, it's the fact he could lock the door and guarantee nobody got in. That issue would be resolved by requiring two people in the cockpit at all times.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by skunkboy)
It's about probability. Many events depend on many factors. No one can control everything in real life. We can just do our best. So events like this one can occur at any time...anywhere.
Yes. But having inadequate mental health monitoring and not having two-person cockpit rules is not doing one's best to prevent such an occurrence, is it?
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Drewski)
Even if they did start it, they still had 8 minutes while it descended. Do you really think the other person would not be able to open the door in that time?
(...)
Oh...I have not considered this (simple) option in my thoughts. I have no doubts anymore.
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