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Labour's Exteme Left Shadow Cabinet, no women in top jobs & appoints John McDonnell! watch

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    (Original post by Ace123)
    What are your thoughts on Corbyn appointing an extreme left shadow cabinet. The prime example being the shadow chancellor John McDonnell.

    The Shadow Chancellor has come out in support of the IRA & praised them for their bombings and shootings, “It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table''

    The Chancellor also supports a 60% tax rate (which as we know was a great success when France did it NOT) & also wants to seize shares from people with no compensation

    http://www.cityam.com/224227/labour-s-lost-it

    When the announcement was made a Labour MP live on air couldn't even believe it was true McDonnell has been appointed

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...&utm_hp_ref=uk

    There is also the issue that all the top jobs went to white middle aged men
    Personally, I don't believe there are top jobs in the shadow cabinet. Yes, the jobs like Shadow Chancellor went to the men but you got to accept the fact that approximately 50% of his shadow cabinet are women.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Much as I appreciate that Mr McGovern I find your endorsement of the PIRA difficult to agree with. I agree with you though that the UVF go under the radar when it comes to coverage as does the British role in the sorry state of the province.

    As long as NI is in the union we cannot keep hoping the problems will go away of their own accord.


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    Very true. My attitude towards the PIRA isn't so much endorsement as striving to reveal the true cause of the Troubles - the loyalist terrorist groups. They began to carry out attacks on Catholics and on nationalist areas, and it was only a matter of time before the IRA returned for a new campaign. The problem I find is that people immediately think of the IRA as the aggressors, when really loyalist terror was, as well as the fact that they claim to be loyal to the crown, yet attack her officers, and carried out terror attacks despite the fact that they were not needed to 'defend' protestant areas - the sectarianism was purely of their own creation.

    I believe my sympathies for the Provisionals are mainly due to my profound knowledge and experience for someone of my generation and the annoyance at the tarring of all republicans with the same brush.

    But yes I do agree with you.
    Spot on there.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Very true. My attitude towards the PIRA isn't so much endorsement as striving to reveal the true cause of the Troubles - the loyalist terrorist groups. They began to carry out attacks on Catholics and on nationalist areas, and it was only a matter of time before the IRA returned for a new campaign. The problem I find is that people immediately think of the IRA as the aggressors, when really loyalist terror was, as well as the fact that they claim to be loyal to the crown, yet attack her officers, and carried out terror attacks despite the fact that they were not needed to 'defend' protestant areas - the sectarianism was purely of their own creation.

    I believe my sympathies for the Provisionals are mainly due to my profound knowledge and experience for someone of my generation and the annoyance at the tarring of all republicans with the same brush.

    But yes I do agree with you.
    Spot on there.
    No I get that. I went to university with a number of Northern Irish who made me a lot more aware of the mess their homeland is in and how little the British government has done in recent years.

    The IRA carried out hits on British soil whereas the UVF are nominally 'on our side'. It is all rather hypocritical I agree that both groups do not share equal condemnation. I want it to get to a stage where we are showing off NI as an asset rather than pushing it under the carpet. How do we do that? God knows.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    No I get that. I went to university with a number of Northern Irish who made me a lot more aware of the mess their homeland is in and how little the British government has done in recent years.

    The IRA carried out hits on British soil whereas the UVF are nominally 'on our side'. It is all rather hypocritical I agree that both groups do not share equal condemnation. I want it to get to a stage where we are showing off NI as an asset rather than pushing it under the carpet. How do we do that? God knows.
    Agree there as well. The mass opposition and outrage at suggesting the introduction of water cannons during the riots in London were so hypocritical when you consider that they've been used in the North alongside rubber bullets for decades.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    I'm going off the views he says in public so may not be as well informed as your dad however he has never seemed to be a Trotskyist to me.

    But I think you also mentioned Owen Jones when you said it?
    Yeah. I know Owen though through the Labour party, he's a close friend of one of my friends.

    Owen has been shifting towards Trotskyism of late. Getting a bit cosy with Mark Sewotka...
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    I said a return to 'the centre' (ill defined and always shifting) makes the party hard to distinguish from the Tories who are attempting the exact same. So you will get the 'red Tory' label from some. Nowhere did I give the individuals that label.

    I ask again, how has the battle for the centre ground worked in my neck of the woods? How did it work in the marginals?


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    It worked excessiveley well in the marginals when Blair came storming through. Unfortunately the crash and the leadership election post brown ****ed all that.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Yeah. I know Owen though through the Labour party, he's a close friend of one of my friends.

    Owen has been shifting towards Trotskyism of late. Getting a bit cosy with Mark Sewotka...
    He has possibly shifting left but trotskyism is an authoritarian permenant revolution ideal which is not where I would say Owen Jones is.

    However Mark Sewotka is one or at least has heavily associated with them.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    It worked excessiveley well in the marginals when Blair came storming through. Unfortunately the crash and the leadership election post brown ****ed all that.
    You can't win an election if you lose your previously safe seats though. Also the centralising effect is overstated for the 1997 election, Labour looked set to win easily under John Smith due to Tory ****-ups and Blair ran on a fairly left wing platform only to abandon much of it.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    He has possibly shifting left but trotskyism is an authoritarian permenant revolution ideal which is not where I would say Owen Jones is.

    However Mark Sewotka is one or at least has heavily associated with them.
    Hold on a minute. Authoritarian? Trotskyism is authoritarian but not really, its focused as just left of democratic socialism - well we see it as democratic socialism because, especially compared to the bureacracy of Stalinism and post-Lenin Russia - because there isn't a bureacracy - the people take part in direct democracy rather than "representative".
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Hold on a minute. Authoritarian? Trotskyism is authoritarian but not really, its focused as just left of democratic socialism - well we see it as democratic socialism because, especially compared to the bureacracy of Stalinism and post-Lenin Russia - because there isn't a bureacracy - the people take part in direct democracy rather than "representative".
    Literally anything whicx wants to proclaim a dictatorship of the proleteriat is authoritarian. Either you're not really following what Trotskys ideas were (oppression, revolution, heavily centralised etc) or you're deluding yourselves. Trotskyism is a form of Bolshevikism and Bolshevikism has one major concensus in all its forms, authoritarianism.
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    (Original post by JTran38)
    Personally, I don't believe there are top jobs in the shadow cabinet. Yes, the jobs like Shadow Chancellor went to the men but you got to accept the fact that approximately 50% of his shadow cabinet are women.
    There certainly are...

    Most obvious examples are the Great Offices of State

    I can understand he wanted to give the shadow Chancellorship to his mate, but it's ridiculous to defend the rejection of Eagle by saying her brief in BIS is at the top of cabinet...
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Literally anything whicx wants to proclaim a dictatorship of the proleteriat is authoritarian. Either you're not really following what Trotskys ideas were (oppression, revolution, heavily centralised etc) or you're deluding yourselves. Trotskyism is a form of Bolshevikism and Bolshevikism has one major concensus in all its forms, authoritarianism.
    Not true.

    Oppression wasn't one of his ideas, nor was bureaucratic centralism - he was a believer in democratic centralism.
    Trotskyism is a form of Marxism and doesn't conform to normal forms of Bolshevism.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Not true.

    Oppression wasn't one of his ideas, nor was bureaucratic centralism - he was a believer in democratic centralism.
    Trotskyism is a form of Marxism and doesn't conform to normal forms of Bolshevism.
    Trotsky strongly supported centralisation in the USSR and wrote about how oppression and terror could be utilised. He heavily supported the one party state and only became critical due to his expulsion. Trotskyism is a deviant from Bolshevikism with some links to Menshevikism from creation.
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    There certainly are...

    Most obvious examples are the Great Offices of State

    I can understand he wanted to give the shadow Chancellorship to his mate, but it's ridiculous to defend the rejection of Eagle by saying her brief in BIS is at the top of cabinet...
    I think the Shadow Chancellorship was less down to McDonnell being his mate and more down to it being pretty idiotic to have a chancellor who disagrees with your economic policy.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    Trotsky strongly supported centralisation in the USSR and wrote about how oppression and terror could be utilised. He heavily supported the one party state and only became critical due to his expulsion. Trotskyism is a deviant from Bolshevikism with some links to Menshevikism from creation.
    Meh, Trotsky's notes on oppression and terror was because he was leader of the Red Army during the Civil War. In exceptional times exceptional tactics are needed.
    But that's really not part of Trotskyism as an ideology.
    It's like Thatcher - she was a ***** and allowed collusion to go on with her own government and loyalists which ended in murders of innocent people; but that's not an ideal of Thatcherism.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Meh, Trotsky's notes on oppression and terror was because he was leader of the Red Army during the Civil War. In exceptional times exceptional tactics are needed.
    But that's really not part of Trotskyism as an ideology.
    It's like Thatcher - she was a ***** and allowed collusion to go on with her own government and loyalists which ended in murders of innocent people; but that's not an ideal of Thatcherism.
    So basically Trotskyism has massively drifted away from Trotsky himself much like Thatcherism has from Thatcher.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    So basically Trotskyism has massively drifted away from Trotsky himself much like Thatcherism has from Thatcher.
    No I'm saying that just because they've utilised or done something significant, it doesn't mean its part of their ideology.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    No I'm saying that just because they've utilised or done something significant, it doesn't mean its part of their ideology.
    Trotsky was a believer in the one party state however.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    He has possibly shifting left but trotskyism is an authoritarian permenant revolution ideal which is not where I would say Owen Jones is.

    However Mark Sewotka is one or at least has heavily associated with them.
    I can say with 100% confidence that sewotka is a trot - you can tell just from what he's done to PCs (brought I to its knees)
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    (Original post by redferry)
    It worked excessiveley well in the marginals when Blair came storming through. Unfortunately the crash and the leadership election post brown ****ed all that.
    My point exactly, it does not work anymore and UK politics has changed enormously since 2005.


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