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My favourite pro veganism quotation! watch

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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    :lolwut: So if humans tasted nice you would eat them? :rolleyes: What a non-sensical argument.

    And in response to your second point, I'd love to see you go head to head with a lion. That would make my day.
    The point if cannibalism has already been mentioned. It's non-sensical to say that eating a human and eating a chicken are the same.

    I don't know if you heard but there was a big media storm recently about a man going up against a lion and unsurprisingly the lion lost


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The point if cannibalism has already been mentioned. It's non-sensical to say that eating a human and eating a chicken are the same.

    I don't know if you heard but there was a big media storm recently about a man going up against a lion and unsurprisingly the lion lost


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    So you would eat a human if it tasted nice? :lolwut: And the lion would have lost in hand to hand combat. Teach a lion to use a gun and it would win against you too. Having said that I think you would lose against a lion even with a gun. You don't strike me as the type of macho hunter type.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Hiya,

    I've just read your post and it instantly shocks me how little fruit and veg you seem to eat and how carb rich your diet is, especially unhealthy carbs in the form of refined sugar rich foods that are in chocolates, donuts etc. That is definitely not a healthy or balanced diet and problems why you have health problems. Let me tell you what I eat on a typical day as an example:

    In the morning I have cereal or porridge with tea. I have no tea in my sugar and I use unsweetened soya or almond milk with the tea and cereal.

    For lunch I have a sandwich with hummus, lettuce, tomatoes, onions. I sometimes have a cup of tea, or water. If I'm feeling adventurous I make myself fresh carrot juice. I also have a banana and clementine, with some nuts sometimes. I NEVER have a whole package - that's too fatty and unhealthy. I never EVER buy juice from the store as it's high in sugar. Also as you'd probably noticed i'm on a low sugar diet - simple chain sugars are bad for your health in large quantities so i've cut it out and get all my sugars from carbs now).

    For tea I have a cup of tea, perhaps another fruit of a few rich tea biscuits. Rich tea biscuits have 1g of sugar per biscuit. Digestives have 3g. So I eat up to 3 biscuits because I really watch the sugar. I stay away from Digestives due to its' sugar content.

    For dinner I have a spicy curry with chappatis (no butter) with rice. The curry is home made and tomato based. For example last night I had a lentil curry with rice and chappatis. I sometimes have things like stir fry broccoli or even steamed vegetables with a frozen vegan burger and bread. I try to combine veg with whatever I eat so I can get the vitamins from it. I used to eat a lot of carbs - just bread and tea and crisps etc, but i've reduced the carbs in favour of fruits and veggies.

    I don't eat chocolates anymore, nor eat foods rich in sugar. I've not eaten any chocolates, crisps or drunk any fizzy drinks since last feb. You have to be very disciplined to do what I do because it is easy to lapse and end up gorging on unhealthy, tasty junk food.

    The unhealthiest meal of the weak is by far on a friday night when I have chips with samosas. But even here i've started mixing it up. I have baked beans on seeded bread wit hummus and rocket salad and tomatoes. Then I have a side of chips and samosas. The beans and bread fill me up sufficiently so I don't eat to eat too many oily chips.

    As for your parents not wanting to cook for you, if you are really serious about your health, body and diet, you will stop being lazy and cook yourself. I've taught myself to cook and can cook most of the stuff I eat. In fact I've learned to cook so many different dishes since I've become a vegan. Cooking used to be a chore but I find it really fun now.

    As for exercises, I go rock climbing 3-4 times a week and a back/physio back class too. Crunches are good, as are pull-ups and weights, but you really need to sort out your diet. Exercising and diet are both important to keep fit. Exercising a bit and eating junk food is not a great lifestyle.

    You could also have 'cheat-days' like with me and chips day. But just make sure you do intensive exercise earlier in the day, or after/the following day so you don't put on too much fat from eating all that junk food. Eating more calories than your body uses is a surefire way to put on a lot of fat.

    Sorry my reply was all over the place, but I hope you get the message I was trying to convey, in that you really need to eat more fruit and veg. Oh and yes, smoothies are awesome! If you can't handle the texture, DEFINITELY make a smoothie and get your nutrient intake in this way!!!! You can pick up a cheap smoothie maker for £20 from Argos.
    Any more questions please ask.
    Yeah, I know, it's pretty bad. I don't eat much of anything and what I do eat is hardly any good, but I'm easily a lot better than I was before so you can imagine how catastrophic things were a year or so ago.

    You drink a lot of tea; I've only had it once and it didn't taste very nice. Everyone around me seems to be addicted to tea and coffee, and when I tell them I didn't drink either, they look at me like I'm some sort of alien. I tried almond milk once! It tasted like paint...I do want to try green tea at some point; I've been told that it's bitter but very good for you. Is that true?
    I used to have very sugary cereals for breakfast but now I just have Weetabix and leave it at that. It's not a huge improvement but still. I sometimes have porridge in the winter because it's nice to fill up on something warm.

    Well, maybe I don't get through a whole bag of peanuts, that's a bit ambitious, but I do eat at least half, which isn't too good either, I guess. They're not salted or anything like that, which has to be plus.
    I know you're going to scold me for saying this, but I tend to skip lunch for convenience on most days. At college, I spend all day in a computer room and food isn't allowed around the keyboards, which are probably crawling with bacteria. I really don't like visiting the cafeteria because of the crowds and, judging by what my classmates eat, it's worse than a lot of takeaway places. (However, I do strongly suspect that they sneak out to McDonalds or something like that, which I can't understand because McDonalds is disgusting).

    Are rich tea biscuits free of animal products? I had no idea... I rarely have digestives; after having them for a long time, I grew fed up with them. Now I have the occasional bourbon.

    I don't eat curry... (Reading these messages is making me question what the hell it is that I'm living on). My parents order curry often and they offer me naan bread but I turn it down. Chappatis seems to be something similar.

    I stopped eating crisps when I had my braces put on, which was two or three years ago, and I've never gone back. Fizzy drinks like Cola and Fanta burn my throat so I avoid them as well.Chocolate is the main problem; I'm addicted to it and I'm not disciplined enough to break the cycle. Recently I've been drinking water whenever I get the urge to eat biscuits or chocolate, in hope that it'll fill the gap and I won't be hungry or "fanciful" anymore.

    Oh gawd, I don't like Chinese or baked beans or tomatoes... I'm not sure what it is that I'm actually eating at this point. Seeded brown bread is nice though; I quite enjoy that.

    I know I need to learn to cook at some point before I move out...but when I get home from college at 7 and have a shower, it's nearly 8 and truthfully I don't want to cook anything... I don't even know how to make a cup of tea or coffee; I never bothered because I didn't see the point in learning to make something I didn't drink. Now part of me actually wants to learn so that I can make it for guests. (This is shameful but I'm going to tell you anyway; I didn't know which knife to use to cut cheese. My friend wanted me to make her a sandwich and she laughed when I picked up a butter knife...)

    At least now I know where your username comes from. I respect your decision to go rock climbing; such a hobby would be far too scary and dangerous for me.

    Haha! My friend went on a diet once and every day was a "cheat day" for her, unless I stepped in. Actually, perhaps you can help me out with her? Keep in mind that I've almost lost her once before and I can't bear the thought of that happening again. She's quite overweight and very self-conscious about her image. It effects her health and her confidence, though she tries hard not to show it. I visit her sometimes for dinner and her family orders takeaway very often; kebabs, curry, you name it. Their portions are huge and I can't even make a dent in what they serve me; I'm like a twig compared to them.My friend tells me she wants to slim down but her parents don't support her like they should; they've raised her on big meals and continue to do so.
    It's painful for me because she'll tell me how upset she is and how badly she wants to change, only to order two burgers the next day. I don't want to hurt her feelings but, at the same time, I don't want her to go down this slippery slope.Should I say or do anything? Or should I just keep encouraging her and hope for the best? She'll never be vegan or vegetarian, or even pescetarian, but she's like my sister and I want her to be happy.

    The layout of your message is fine and I know what you're trying to say. I appreciate it. I'm going out today so I'm definitely going to look for a smoothie maker. Are there any really nice combinations of fruit and veg?
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Excellent quotes. Where did you find them or come across them?

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/vegetarianism
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Eh? Either you're trying to completely misrepresentate my argument or you're just not bothering to read it - a normal biological function cannot be compared to a social framework.
    Being an omnivore is not the same as eating meat.
    Eating is a biological function yes, but eating meat isn't just a biological function. In fact, trying to reduce it down to the extent that morality cannot be concerned is fallacious. Just because one needs to eat it does not mean one needs to eat meat. By such logic I would be able to eat humans with no moral repercussions.
    So all you've got left is nitpicking grammar? It's quite clear, eating meat is no more a social occasion than eating in general.
    No, it wasn't clear. I suppose in your eyes eating chocolate that comes from fair trade sources and slave base sources is the same then.

    Out of interest have you ever studied moral philosophy? I only ask because so far your arguments appear to completely disregard everything that the vast majority of (and in my experience, all contemporary) moral philosophers have ever argued.
    It is unless you supplement your diet with things like vitamin D3.
    So...eating meat isn't necessary for survival/health then. Good to know.



    Have you seen conclusive evidence that plants are incapable of pain? Ultimately its not about doing the least harm possible since that necessitates suicide, it's not even about reducing suffering in diet as much as possible since that would involve adopting freeganism, a bivalve or insect based diet or primitivist hunter-gatherer behaviour, so we can conclude that it just needs to reduce harm by wn amount, so veganism has no logical opposition to eating just a low meat diet or one with free-range and local animals rather than factory farmed, unless we go down the rights route, in which case I'll have to point out again that animals die for anyone to survive - we kill hundreds of thousands of insects and small herbivores to maintain crops for vegan diets, the only difference is that the cow ends up on my plate while the mouse doesn't end up on yours. So, why is it acceptable to kill animals provided you don't eat them?
    Veganism is about reducing the level of harm down as much as you can, obviously within reason. You talk about ridiculous arguments but then claim that vegans should all go and kill themselves.
    By the same logic all humans should be killed to ensure that no-one harms anyone else. Trigger warning:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    all men should be killed to make sure rape never happens

    Or is it your view if you can't be 100% moral why be moral at all? Inf act do things that are immoral because: why not? (and no, 'why be moral?' isn't a question about moral philosophy).
    Thought I was quite clear that it's irrelevant since morals don't come into predator-prey relationships but nevermind.
    *makes a false premise"
    "acts as if the argument is won*.

    I suppose by that logic it's fine to torture animals as long as the end result is you eat them.
    Or are you trying to use the "well if it happens in a lion's relationship with it's food why can't it happen with ours?" argument. Because if you're basing your decision making on what a lion does you should go and roll around in the dirt.

    Irregardless, we don't have a predator prey relationship. We farm animals. Even if we did it would be irrelevant as it isn't needed. It is a necessity to eat, not a necessity to eat meat.

    Now if you're done throwing up fallacy after fallacy:

    What is the quality humans have that makes them moral subjects which animals lack?

    Not sure how many ways I have to phrase the same question for you to stop what appears to be trolling and bother to answer the question.
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    (Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy)
    Yeah, I know, it's pretty bad. .... Are there any really nice combinations of fruit and veg?
    Hello,

    I drink more Jasmine/green tea than normal tea. It is better for you as it has no fat/sugar/crap. They also have antioxidants and increase your metabolism so you burn calories faster when not exercising either. I'm super skinny (just under 55kg), and it's probably due to the fact that i've got a super fast metabolism. You can increase your metabolism through green teas and eating spicy foods. Of course there is a genetic element too but the above does help.

    I only drink normal tea once a day, normally. And I used to dislike almond and soya milk too, but you get used to it. I moved from sweetened soya milk to unsweetened soya milk and when I got used to those two then onto unsweetened almond milk. Try moving onto the unsweetened stuff gradually. Since you're addicted to sugar (and have a sweet tooth), it'll take time to ween yourself off the high sugar products. Try eliminate it bit-by-bit and maybe find healthy alternatives. E.g in stead of chocolates try eat nakd coco bars which are made with dates and nuts, no processed sugars. Instead of digestives and chocolate digestives stick to rich tea. Look at the ingredients and note the sugar/fat content. Try go for the foods with low sugar. Rich tea is great because they have 1g sugar per biscuit, which is lowest i've seen compared to 4.3g I think chocolate digestives have. Oh btw, Rich tea is free of animal products, yes. McVities digestives aren't though - they contain whey powder.

    Missing lunch isn't the worst thing you could do. You could have a banana or clementine for lunch? I think missing lunch slows down your metabolism I read somewhere. People who have small meals more frequently seem to have faster metabolisms so you could try this approach. It would complement exercise well too.

    Read this about coke. If that won't put you off fizzy drinks, nothing will. Cartoned orange juice is crap too.
    http://www.trueactivist.com/20-estab...he-human-body/

    You have to look after your body because no one else will. Cooking and eating healthily is part of that. Of course if you are rich then you can pay someone to cook healthy meals for you, but until then, take responsibility. When my mum makes something I don't like and don't want to eat I make my own food and wash up after myself. Even if we're tired we have to eat right? If you are really really really tired then have a smoothie and some bread and hummus or something. or maybe just roast a potato and chuck some beans over it or something. Maybe even make a sandwich with veg in it - that's easy peasy. Chinese food can be nice if done right. Can I suggest you try vegan chinese food? Something without meat? Maybe you'll find that more appetising. My favourite chinese dish is 'veggie chicken' with peppers and black bean sauce. Fairly healthy, spicy and super tasty! You can even stir fry some veg, chuck in some cooked rice and dabble a bit of salt and pepper and soya sauce - easy peasy!

    Tea making is easy. Boil water, put teabag in mug, pour boiling water over it. stir for a minute or two, squeeze out teabag with two spoons, and bin it, then add a bit of milk to the mug with the black stuff in it and stir! Done! As simple as that. You can add sugar but it's bad for you so try cut it down/out altogether.

    As for your friend laughing about knives. That is cruel. Just ignore her and tell her we're not all knife geniuses or something. You'll soon learn what knife works best for cheese by trial and error. Usually something flat, thin and sharp does the trick.

    As for your friend, the only thing I can suggest is perhaps show her my last few posts and let her decide whether she really cares about her body to make a change. At the end of the day it is her choice. It's all good you trying to persuade her but if she doesn't want it enough, no amount of persuasion on your part will make her change. She was to want something badly enough to make it happen.

    For veg smoothies try something healthy and bitter like kale and something sweet like strawberries and blueberries and kiwis. I would also add a frozen banana and enough soyamilk so it is somewhat runny so you can drink it. I've personally never tried broccoli! I am not sure it can be smoothied! Google is your friend. Google everything you ask me and i'm sure you'll find a post about it somewhere on the internet. That's what I do.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Well you clearly are terrible with your money

    More like 30 pills for a tenner!? If that...

    I currently have a years supply courtesy of the NHS but the Dr said its important I top it up with diet. You
    It's because I have certain carb/protein/fat requirements. I eat 500g of chicken breast in two days, that's £5 already. Then things like vegetables (tenderstem broccoli is £2 a pack?!!, that lasts one day!), it just really adds up. I don't like cheap ingredients, such as 30p for a 1kg bag of pasta. If I do eat pasta, which is rare, I will ensure it's the high quality stuff, which has a much nicer, rougher texture. Duck is £7 for about 300g, and I eat lots of sirloin/fillet steak. I am a student, but food is one of life's greatest pleasures. I'm not spending my younger years surviving off a can of baked beans and some pasta.

    So where I can, I'll make sure everything is as fresh as possible, without being ridiculous. (Tescos do 'organic' chicken breast at about 250g, for £9, that's outrageous!)

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Healthy-Orig...rds=vitamin+d3

    I'm pretty sure I paid like £8, but £13 for 360 capsules (the capsules come in oil so you don't have to eat it with a source of fat). Where are you getting your D3 from?! :P
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    (Original post by AbsoluteAnarchy)
    Good morning.

    First of all, what is a moral subject? If you're asking why we should only take care of humans and not animals, that's not what I'm trying to say here. I recognise that animals are alive, with thoughts and feelings, but I don't want to starve. I would never harm an animal for any other reason; that would be cruel.(My cat has a different approach; he'll kill a mouse and he won't even eat it... That's just mean).
    Firstly a moral subject is a being that is worth considering from a moral stand point, to see how our actions and behaviors effect them.
    The consensus from moral philosophy is that beings that are sentient, able to suffer or feel joy, are able to therefore, value, are moral subjects.

    They are different to moral agents, who are beings capable of discussing what moral subjects are and how their actions may effect moral subjects.


    It's worth noting that being a healthy vegan is entirely possible in the western world for a huge majority of people, as well as many countries. Arguably most countries would feed their citizens more kcal wise per acre if they switched to vegan farming and didn't farm animals. This is because it is calorie inefficient to feed animals to eat rather than using the land to eat.


    So by not eating animal products you don't put yourself in a position to starve.
    I don't understand the whole description/perscription thing...
    Those "brown people" are humans, hence part of our species. They're the same as us in every way except the colour of their skin, which isn't a good reason to judge someone. To do so would be racist.
    Prescription: You ought to do X. You ought not to do Y. Prescriptions are should statements.
    In morality you ought to do X to be moral in your actions. And you ought not do Y to not be immoral in your actions.

    In a doctors surgery, you might get a prescription:
    To be better, you should do X. But you should not do Y or you will get worse.
    Or it might be used as a noun, to be given prescription medication.

    Moving on to species:
    Why is their skin colour any less arbitrary then what species another moral subject is?
    Just because you say species is important, that doesn't make it important. You have shown the argument in your first quote above here that you don't want to harm animals unnecessarily, so you do see them as moral subjects. So what is it about species membership that makes them not just less important, but open to being treated badly.

    I don't fully understand what a moral agent is... My morality is based on a combination of what occurs in nature, experiences, human society, justice, facts, logic, and numerous other things, including - dare I say it - compassion.
    I've defined this in this post but for the sake of convenience I'll put it here as well:

    They are different to moral agents, who are beings capable of discussing what moral subjects are and how their actions may effect moral subjects.


    Also, what does it mean to straw man someone? I'm fairly new to this site (you've probably noticed lol) and I keep seeing that term being tossed around. If you could give me the definition, I'd be very grateful.
    In the middle of a debate Jezza presents an argument, and says that it was Mitchell's argument, then Jezza explains why this argument is wrong. However, Mitchel did not present the argument Jezza has said he did.

    So Jezza has made a weak argument, or figuratively, an argument made of straw, for the purpose of knocking it down to show Mitchell's argument was weak.

    So in this case I've presented, concisely the argument you've put forward, I've then explained why I disagree with it. But I want to be clear that I do actually believe it to be your argument, and if there is a relevant difference between your argument, and the argument I've presented as yours, I would like you to make it apparent.

    Do I need to eat animal products? I would say that I do. They make up a substantial part of my diet, especially milk and cheese, and I don't eat much to begin with. The only meat I like to eat is fish, the only vegetables are carrot, cucumber, sweetcorn, peppers, and celery, and as far as fruit goes, strawberry, banana, and melon are my main three... I want to try more but I'm a very picky eater; it's a miracle I'm still going, to be honest. I think it's mainly because of the carbohydrates, and recently my weight has dropped which makes it difficult to buy clothes.
    So in this case, you would say you do need meat and other animal products because they make up the diet you currently have.

    However, the diet you currently have is not the only diet you could have to meet your nutritional needs. Your argument has unfortunately fallen into the is ought gap.
    That is to say just because something is, it does not follow that it ought to be.
    And unfortunately, this does not show you need meat, but that you are making a choice to eat meat rather than getting your nutrition from other sources. This is based on you bring a 'picky eater'. But that is about what you want as opposed to what you need.

    I've started exercising and lifting weights too, so my friends are telling me that I need to eat more or kiss goodbye to being strong.
    My doctor told me to eat eggs more often because they contained something I needed, though I can't remember what. I tried to do as he said but I don't like the texture of eggs very much, plus they're basically chicken periods.
    This unfortunately so far just falls into another fallacy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

    Just because you need something (I'd be very interested to know what that something is) and eggs contain that substance, it does not necessarily follow that only eggs have that substance. The vast majority of doctors receive a horrifically low amount of teaching/training on nutrition. They are not, generally speaking, experts in diet by any measure.
    My family are hard to live with when it comes to meat; they like everything, and when I complain, I cause tension. Last night they were having pork and I managed to pull some strings and get myself haddock instead. Sometimes that doesn't happen; I'm given what they're having and I end up hardly touching it.They also eat takeaway, which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.We had quorn mince/chicken once, but I was the only one who liked it and we haven't had it since.
    Out of interest, why do you not cook for yourself?
    I don't want to get caught up in a world of supplements; I'm already taking multivitamin tablets and I'm deficient in vitamin D. I don't want to live on pills for the rest of my life; I want to taste my food.
    I take one round of pills a day, usually 2 pills, the first contains vitamin D, the second contains B12.
    Though recently I've had fewer B12 supplements, and more fortified foods with B12 in them instead.

    Even if it was the case that I had to take lots of pills, I'd still need to eat, and your argument would still be flawed as you'd be showing that we don't need meat to survive/be healthy.
    So do I need to eat animal products? Yes, because otherwise I'd become dangerously ill at the very least, and I don't want to lose anymore weight.
    If I had to choose between sacrificing my own health and not saving a squid, I would pick the latter.
    Unfortunately you've not shown you need to eat animal products. You've shown you want to eat them. Being vegan doesn't mean eating fewer kcals. Some vegans do lose weight becoming vegan, others, stay the same, and others gain weight when they turn vegan (like myself). It depends on what you ate before and what you eat on a vegan diet. A vegan could eat 1 pea a day and be vegan. Obviously this would be unhealthy. Or they could eat a diet with different fruits and vegetables, grains and pulses and fungii etc.
    Or they could live off crisps, cake and chocolate.
    There isn't a single vegan diet anymore than there's a single meat eating diet.
    If I absolutely had to be killed to feed someone, I'd want something quick and painless. Maybe an injection? Then I can go peacefully in my sleep. If farms use a more brutal method, then that is what we should be tackling. I'm not sure how we'd solve that problem regarding fishing nets but we could come up with something.
    Injections aren't possible for the meat industry as a slaughter method. In fact, animals are selectively bred, and have many different ailments as a result, all so that we can get more from them.

    Would I have fear? Yes, provided I knew what was going to happen. The same fear that an antelope has whilst it's running from its own predator, except I wouldn't be mauled to death and left for vultures/hyenas. I'd want every part of my body to be used, which is why I'm probably going to donate myself to science after I die.
    There are many many videos out there showing animals not just aware they're about to be killed, but of them trying to escape and get out of the horrible situation.

    Remember that most predators show no signs of being moral agents.
    So you don't want to reduce your moral choices down to their actions as you are a moral agent.
    It's like if a tiger ate my best friend; I'd be devastated and probably fall back into depression. Would I want to kill the tiger? Never. It was simply looking for food in order to survive; I can't judge it for that.
    I'll stop repeating my statements about the relevant differences here, as I'm sure you can apply them yourself.
    There's another thing I don't understand about veganism/vegetarianism... Plants are animals too, so why do you eat them? Is it because they don't move? They're sentient, aren't they? Even if they're not, they're still alive, so I can't help but wonder what makes them different from a cow. Except that they get eaten by the cow, but you get what I'm saying.
    Plants are plants, and therefore not animals.
    Being alive is not what makes a moral subject a moral subject. Plants show no ability to make value judgements.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Hello,

    I'm super skinny (just under 55kg),

    How tall are you? Are you male?
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    How tall are you? Are you male?
    Yes male, Just under 5ft 8. And no i'm not weak before you try come up with another ridiculous comment. I can do one arm press-ups, finger pull-ups, a front lever, and i'm training for the one arm pull-up. I can do one arm lower offs and 10 pull-ups with 20kgs of weight added.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Yes male, Just under 5ft 8. And no i'm not weak before you try come up with another ridiculous comment. I can do one arm press-ups, finger pull-ups, a front lever, and i'm training for the one arm pull-up. I can do one arm lower offs and 10 pull-ups with 20kgs of weight added.
    Yes, because you are a rock climber. Every climber I know is like that. They have ridiculous grip strength, they are great at pull ups. Bodyweight exercises are easier for lighter individuals. Just look at people like Frank Medrano, I'm sure you've heard of him, he's a vegan. He's strong, but compare him to a Chinese Olympic lifter of the same weight...lol. But even the climbers I know are much heavier than you, they sit at around 65 - 70kg. You are very underweight my friend.

    I know guys that can deadlift 300kg, bench 180kg, squat 270kg, and they would struggle with 10 pull ups added with 20kg. Because they have bodyweights of 100kg+. It would be silly to call them weak.

    I'm not saying you are weak, but other than pull ups, how strong are you on other exercises? Such as, for example, squat, deadlift, bench. I'm guessing you don't do them, huh?
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Yes, because you are a rock climber. Every climber I know is like that. They have ridiculous grip strength, they are great at pull ups. Bodyweight exercises are easier for lighter individuals. Just look at people like Frank Medrano, I'm sure you've heard of him, he's a vegan. He's strong, but compare him to a Chinese Olympic lifter of the same weight...lol. But even the climbers I know are much heavier than you, they sit at around 65 - 70kg. You are very underweight my friend.

    I know guys that can deadlift 300kg, bench 180kg, squat 270kg, and they would struggle with 10 pull ups added with 20kg. Because they have bodyweights of 100kg+. It would be silly to call them weak.

    I'm not saying you are weak, but other than pull ups, how strong are you on other exercises? Such as, for example, squat, deadlift, bench. I'm guessing you don't do them, huh?
    I am not underweight. My BMI is in the normal range. I just have very low %age body fat. I don't do squats/deadlifts/bench. I don't have a gym membership. I can easily carry a 20kg bag of potatoes over my shoulders and lift/push heavy weights. Once i moved a 200-300kg boulder with my legs. It was huge. I can also easily lift a 13 stone human off the ground. My pinch strength (when I pinch scales) is about 13 stones too.

    Vegans aren't weak. It is a myth you need to eat meat to be strong. Also most climbers I know are jealous I am so light. It's very advantageous when climbing to be lighter, but don't get me wrong - I wouldn't and don't starve myself to be light. I eat loads, exercise loads, and my weight is what it is. I don't really watch it.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    I am not underweight. My BMI is in the normal range. I just have very low %age body fat. I don't do squats/deadlifts/bench. I don't have a gym membership. I can easily carry a 20kg bag of potatoes over my shoulders and lift/push heavy weights. Once i moved a 200-300kg boulder with my legs. It was huge. I can also easily lift a 13 stone human off the ground. My pinch strength (when I pinch scales) is about 13 stones too.

    Vegans aren't weak.
    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Yes, because you are a rock climber. Every climber I know is like that. They have ridiculous grip strength, they are great at pull ups. Bodyweight exercises are easier for lighter individuals. Just look at people like Frank Medrano, I'm sure you've heard of him, he's a vegan. He's strong, but compare him to a Chinese Olympic lifter of the same weight...lol. But even the climbers I know are much heavier than you, they sit at around 65 - 70kg. You are very underweight my friend.

    I know guys that can deadlift 300kg, bench 180kg, squat 270kg, and they would struggle with 10 pull ups added with 20kg. Because they have bodyweights of 100kg+. It would be silly to call them weak.

    I'm not saying you are weak, but other than pull ups, how strong are you on other exercises? Such as, for example, squat, deadlift, bench. I'm guessing you don't do them, huh?
    Why would I ever want to do such exercises that either of you are talking about?
    The GYM is boring, and I don't want to be 'ripped'.

    There are plenty of examples of vegan strength and body builders.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Why would I ever want to do such exercises that either of you are talking about?
    The GYM is boring, and I don't want to be 'ripped'.

    There are plenty of examples of vegan strength and body builders.
    cos rock climbing is funner than the gym? Also never know when you might need to climb up a tree to escape from a savage meat-eater. They have violent tendencies and might kill us! :eek:
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    cos rock climbing is funner than the gym? Also never know when you might need to climb up a tree to escape from a savage meat-eater. They have violent tendencies and might kill us! :eek:
    But both are expensive!

    And wrong: The tree is actually a trifled.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Why would I ever want to do such exercises that either of you are talking about?
    The GYM is boring, and I don't want to be 'ripped'.

    There are plenty of examples of vegan strength and body builders.
    Ironically, it's the vegans that are usually the most ripped with their ridiculous body fat %.

    If the gym is boring, that's your opinion. There are few examples of vegan strength athletes and bodybuilders.

    The athletes that hit the highest numbers are very, very rarely vegans across the weight classes. This goes for most sports. Ofcourse, vegan strength athletes/bodybuilders will most likely be on enough drugs to kill an elephant, same with their non-vegan counterparts.

    Vegan diets are not ideal for sports at a professional level. If they were, the science would be there, and all our athletes would be on vegan diets. I would love to see a professional endurance athlete such as a rower or cyclist on a vegan diet win a gold medal. 5000 calories of pure veg/fruit/legumes/nuts etc.
    That's serious toilet time.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    But both are expensive!

    And wrong: The tree is actually a trifled.
    Climbing isn't expensive. - £40 a month. If you didn't eat out 4 times a month, you could afford that since eating out costs on average £10 per go.

    Also what's this about tree being trifled? I don't follow.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Climbing isn't expensive. - £40 a month. If you didn't eat out 4 times a month, you could afford that since eating out costs on average £10 per go.

    Also what's this about tree being trifled? I don't follow.
    My gym membership is £15 a month with access to a brand new customisable indoor climbing wall. Go me ^_^
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Climbing isn't expensive. - £40 a month. If you didn't eat out 4 times a month, you could afford that since eating out costs on average £10 per go.

    Also what's this about tree being trifled? I don't follow.
    I don't eat out. Nice try.

    Triffid. I didn't see the 'l' when I spell checked!

    (Original post by JD1lla)
    My gym membership is £15 a month with access to a brand new customisable indoor climbing wall. Go me ^_^
    That's much less than half the price I see just about anywhere. H...How???
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I don't eat out. Nice try.

    Triffid. I didn't see the 'l' when I spell checked!



    That's much less than half the price I see just about anywhere. H...How???
    Uni gym, student discount. They also allow non uni members to go there which is really annoying as the gym is crowded.
 
 
 
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