Is punishing someone with an eternity of unbearable pain the "most merciful" way of dealing with the finite "crime" of being born into a non-Muslim religion?
If anyone can think of a more merciful way of dealing with that situation, then Allah is not "the most merciful" and the Quran is shown to be flawed.
Can you think of a more merciful way of punishing someone for being brought up a Christian (for example) that to torture them for ever?
Turn on thread page Beta
Leaving Islam/ telling my family I'm athiest? watch
- 02-11-2015 23:05
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
- 02-11-2015 23:11
Even if there was a true religion which existed (from the perspective of the current irreligious), there would always be something to call 'convenient' or complain about, and even if God decended from the sky, skeptics like you and Qe2 would probably say "this isn't God, it's just a created superior life form that we must research"...
If you are claiming that Islam is the most reasonable explanation for the way the universe is, then I (and 75% of the world's population) disagree. Not to mention nearly 100% of the world's foremost physicists, biologists and chemists.
How do you explain the fact that almost every leading scientist in the world rejects Islam? What is it that you know that they don't, and why are you not able to convince them?
(Original post by emily Z)
- 02-11-2015 23:26
The Qur'an has told us about the mentality of the Jahil
And of them there are some who listen to you; but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they see every one of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) they will not believe therein; to the point that when they come to you to argue with you, the disbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the men of old."
And how true the Qur'an is.
Wow! Never thought of it like that before. Obviously must have come from god, and not from man. Men could never have come up with that idea!
but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not
This needs properly explaining.
- 02-11-2015 23:33
Once you change religion, its a very serious decision, so sort your issues out first, try going into a mosque and ask them to help you, but ultimately your decision we all have free will
(Original post by emily Z)
- 02-11-2015 23:36
If you say something enough times you end up believing it, as is the case with you sir.
How many times have you said that?
Again, if you wont to find out about Qadr, then listen to a talk, because It requires a lot of explaining.
The usual argument is along the lines of..."Just because Allah knows exactly what you are going to do, and he cannot be wrong about it, doesn't mean that you have to do it".
So, If I don't do exactly what Allah knows I am going to do at moment X, then he was wrong about it - which cannot happen.
So, if I have to do what he knows I am going to do at moment X, I cannot do anything else - so my free-will is restricted.
However the Qur'an is a unique book, clear to those who look
And it is certainly clear to those who do not approach it with the indoctrinated presumption that it is true.
- 02-11-2015 23:41
- 02-11-2015 23:52
and I believe that there is a God , God created the sun, moon, earth all the other planets, humans and all living things.
You may claim that it was god who made all those natural processes happen, but all you are doing is adding an unnecessary and unexplained extra layer to the explanation that works perfectly well without the supernatural element.
It's like insisting that you need to say a prayer over your car before you start it. You may believe this, but the car will start perfectly well without the prayer.
- 03-11-2015 00:07
"Has anyone been there who has escaped death. No, no one has been able to do this."
So, which is it?
Has no one escaped death, or has someone escaped death?
Can't be both.
(Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
- 03-11-2015 00:13
Quraan and 3 other holy books were sent by Allah to show the humans what is right..
Having sex with your female slaves is "right"?
Beating your disobedient wife is "right"?
100 lashes for people for having consensual, adult sex is "right"?
Killing those who oppose Islam is "right"?
All I can say is that I am mighty glad that only a tiny minority of the world's governments actually believe that the Quran is a guide to what is "right".
(Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
- 03-11-2015 00:23
I dont wanna be rude here to anyone regarding their religion & beliefs.. But rather than that I would just advise u to read Quraan with its translation which might help u answer ur questions...
- 03-11-2015 00:34
- 03-11-2015 01:07
Well OP, seems I'm in exactly the same position as you. However, telling my family would surely lead to them shunning me, though I suspect they may just be patronising and act like I never said I didn't believe. They'd just be in denial tbh.
I'd advise you to not say anything until you're financially independent just to be on the safe side tbh. Then after that, ease them into it and give them time to be a ****. They may be dicks for a long time, but introduce a cut off point. Maybe a couple of months, or a year max. Tell them if there's any questions you'll happily answer and be understanding. However, after that year, if they're still shunning you (this is if they react very badly to you coming out as atheist), tell them you won't see them anymore. Use that as leverage when you're financially independent. If your family loves you at all they'll respond to this and want to keep connected with you somehow.
- 03-11-2015 01:16
- 03-11-2015 10:26
Some people were straight but now they are gay so, what has happened? It is a choice.
(Original post by MamzZass)
- 03-11-2015 10:30
Im...idk a liberal muslim maybe? Agnostic? Anyway I find myself questioning a lot of Qur'ans teachings these days especially after studying RMPS for 5 years and i still am. I do consider myself a muslim in identity, however, that doesn't mean that i blindly follow everything in the faith. tbh a lot of the sayings and teachings are quite nonsensical. But despite all of Islam's flaws, be they plentiful indeed, i myself chose to accept the good parts of the religion whilst disregarding all of the outdated mumbo-jumbo it offers.
So, do you still consider the Quran to be literally authored by god?
- 03-11-2015 10:42
You are making the extraordinary claim that a supernatural being wrote a book. Not only is there no real evidence for the existence of said being, but the content of the book suggests that it was probably written by 7th cebtury Arabs.
Therefore, if someone doubts your claim, it is your responsibility to support it, not the sceptics to disprove it.
Just imagine a legal system where anybody accused of anything by anybody had to prove their innocence!
An example: I accuse you of eating pork and drinking alcohol in secret, a year ago. Now, is it up to you to prove that you didn't, or up to me to prove that you did?
As Carl Sagan said (paraphrasing Truzzi, Laplace and Hume) - "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".Last edited by QE2; 03-11-2015 at 10:44.
(Original post by Salx.x)
- 03-11-2015 10:46
I come from a fairly liberal Muslim family in London. I don't wear Hijab and I don't pray. My family aren't bad people, but they really do have high expectations for me. My mum says everyday that she knows I'll be great and that she prays everyday that I'll be successful. My siblings are more the issue though, they also have high expectations and have recently become more practising. I know I should wait till I'm old enough to move out (I'm still in school), but it's been a few weeks since I've come to realise of my atheism and I'm already going crazy. I have studied Islam in depth and there's many things I believe are wrong and disagree with. I'm going to ask you not to post any Qur'an verses, even though I know someone will. What can I do to prepare myself to tell them I'm atheist? And how should I tell them? I can already see what my life is going to be if I don't leave Islam soon. I'll only carry on living my miserable life, doing things I don't believe and passing those beliefs to my children who'll have to live the miserable life I did. I respect Islam and Muslims, but I really do have strong views about things on the dark side of religion that everyone seems to overlook. I got into a really heated argument once with a friend who said that being gay is a choice because it says that nobody is born gay in the Quran. I have my own morals and I don't need religion to keep me in place.
Has anyone else ever left Islam, and if so how did your family react?
I've left Islam but my family is clueless about my "new" found atheism.
If you ever need to chat or talk just PM.
Good luck to you and please ignore some of the comments on this thread by hurt Muslims. The concept of having your own opinion, having choice and being secular is a concept they dont understand.
- 03-11-2015 10:49
(Original post by QE2)
- 03-11-2015 11:02
OK. Could you, personally, have sex with another woman?
Many people resist or hide their natural sexuality for a number of reasons - not least if they are from a religious community. Have you heard the expression "coming out"?
Yes, some people may hide the fact that they are gay and pretend to be straight but we should not forget those who were actually straight but now they are gay, this is a possibility that we can't deny.
- 03-11-2015 11:04