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    (Original post by fatima1998)
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    is there's anything left i haven't seen against Muslims
    So who is worse? The guy who says that homosexuals should be euthanised, or OP for posting the article here?
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    Sorry bud but gay people =/= homosexuals.
    My VPN for some reason was blocking my first attempt to reply. Here it is

    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    Sorry bud but gay people =/= homosexuals.
    A homosexual is someone who is attracted to their own sex. So yes, gay people are homosexuals.

    Well I mean, referring to gay people with language such as 'homosexuals' or 'the gays' is dehumanizing and a grade A indicator of homophobic view points to begin with.
    I haven't seen anyone use the term "the gays" on here, which I would agree is somewhat offensive if not used in an ironic way. Referring to "homosexuals" as I have done has nothing to do with "microaggressions", it is perhaps more to do with using a more rhetorical and dispassionate style of argumentation.

    If you're seeing that and the oh so healthy dollop of microaggresssions I've scrolled past and you're coming up with none of these people being homophobes then you're definitely mistaken on your having internalized homophobic views.
    That is ludicrously illogical and entirely tends to confirmation bias. I'm sorry but you're new here, so you aren't really familiar with the other people on this thread who are making the same arguments I am. And it sounds like you are somewhat politically naive and ill-informed, thus you think that if someone criticises Islam it must be because they are some kind-of reactionary, right-wing 'Colonel Blimp' figure.

    It speaks poorly for your political awareness that you're unaware of the atheist tendencies that make up many of the voices critical of Islam in modern political discourse. I and quite a few of my friends who oppose Islam are atheists and democratic socialists. I know the other guys on here arguing against Islam also do so from an atheist perspective and some of them are liberal or centre-left.

    I'm sorry but you come across very badly in the comments you've made, and you seem somewhat oblivious to the very live debates that occur on the Islam/atheist axis rather than Islam/right-wing axis. Sam Harris is perhaps the best example of this. Anyway, all I'll add to that is that I think it's pathetic when a gay man is so passively in hock to his PC Islamophile views that he effectively becomes an apologist for tendencies that actually behead gay people.

    That's what you are, and of all the things I've seen, to me that bespeaks the real self-loathing here
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    (Original post by F.SA)
    On the other hand, we cannot blame the religion of Islam for being against homosexuality, when other religions are against it too
    Judge: How do you plead to the charge of murder?

    Prisoner: Not guilty, milord.

    Judge: Why?

    Prisoner: Other people have also murdered, milord, so I can't be held responsible for it
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    This is people using 'homosexuals' as a means to quench their bottomless confirmation bias against Islam, not a critique of the way that Islam is used as a reasoning/incitement for some Muslims homophobic actions. I'm not actually going to delve into the discourse here or air my views on the topic because I'm finding the irony of people reducing gay tragedy™ to a simple discussion point to support their preconceived generalizations of a group of people is far too ridiculous a concept to begin with.
    In fact, I'd add to that; even assuming that British conservatives who are not particularly friendly to homosexuality used it as a stick to beat Islam. These conservatives might not be friendly to the idea of, say, gay marriage, but they don't want to kill us.

    The Islamic extremists do want to kill us. And yet you'd side with them over these conservatives? Whatever my political differences with conservatives, we still both believe in parliamentary democracy and the rule of law, we both believe women should have equal rights under the law, we both believe that homosexuals should be free from legal persecution.

    It's bizarre that anyone would be so desperately attached to their PC view of the world that says right-wing=bad, Islam=good, that they would become an apologist for people who literally behead the LGBT. You're like those NUS crackpots who are so achingly PC that they actually come full circle and become bigoted (like passing resolutions condemning gay men for "acting like black women")

    I don't know about you, but I know who I'd rather associate with and who, when it really comes down to the fundamentals, has my back and who doesn't.
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    (Original post by F.SA)
    I actually only skimmed through the paragraph, upon rereading I retract my previous comment, ( I disagree with the point about using the term "homosexuals". But the real problem here is that the focus of the article is that the man is Muslim. That is not important. Forget that. The important bit is that, out in the world there are still countries that dont accept homosexuality, and kill homosexual people everyday. THAT is an issue. Islam has a right to it's own opinion, despite it being, arguabley, the wrong point of view. HOWEVER, I believe it is wrong for homosexuality to be punishable by death, or by anything else as a matter of fact. On the other hand, we cannot blame the religion of Islam for being against homosexuality, when other religions are against it too, for example, Christianity. So yes, there are moral issues, but that doesn't give us to right to slander every Muslim we come across. Also, to the person who said you can just LEAVE Saudi Arabia if you are gay, I'm pretty sure it isn't that easy. If there's a war in Saudi Arabia you can't leave that easily. SO TO CONCLUDE! Don't discriminate against Islam for their beliefs because you do not know every Muslim. I am Muslim and so are my best friends and none of us reflect the Islamic view about homosexuality. Not everyone follows their religion to the letter.
    The only countries that behead people for homosexuality are Islamic. If you're interested in seeing those laws change, then you'll be interested in Islam being reformed.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    Judge: How do you plead to the charge of murder?

    Prisoner: Not guilty, milord.

    Judge: Why?

    Prisoner: Other people have also murdered, milord, so I can't be held responsible for it
    I a not saying ty are not guilty of it, I'm saying it is ignorant to ignore the fact that there are other much larger religions that are against homosexuality, and implying that Islam is the only religion that believes in this.
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    (Original post by F.SA)
    I a not saying ty are not guilty of it, I'm saying it is ignorant to ignore the fact that there are other much larger religions that are against homosexuality, and implying that Islam is the only religion that believes in this.
    There are no "much larger religions". Islam is the largest religion in the world.

    And Islam is certainly the only religion that kills gay people anymore. The only religion comparable in size, the Catholic Church, teaches that homosexual conduct is sinful but notably they don't actually lobby in the West to outlaw it and the majority of Catholics disagree with the Vatican hierarchy. Polls consistently show a majority of Catholics even support gay marriage.

    The same could not be said for Islam. It clearly is the worst offender, by far, when it comes to the abuse and persecution of gay people
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    So the fact that he disagrees with the teachings of the Qur'an is proof that he has not studied the Qur'an? Typical arrogant, cult-like Muslim attitude there.
    He didn't "disagree" with them, he was trying to analyse them and failed.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    The only countries that behead people for homosexuality are Islamic. If you're interested in seeing those laws change, then you'll be interested in Islam being reformed.
    In Yemen and Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. Other countries also have anti-gay laws such as Swaziland, Russia, Kenya, India, and the Ukraine and many others. So, I'll be interested in seeing a lot of countries have their laws reformed, not just Islamic ones.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    a hilarious mess from start to finish
    I concede man, you clearly know my personal views and and opinions better than me. Damn, you sure showed me how uneducated I am on topics that you have no actual means of quantifying how much I know about.

    In other news, gay people now solely refers homosexuals but luckily for me you've decided I am a gay man. I'd like to extend my gratitude to you for seemingly disregarding everything I've said and generating your own concept of me for you to argue with (apparently complete with his own backstory and views on political and religious discourses) but I love myself too much to try to communicate with people who chant those 'PC gone mad' style rhetoric at comments that they missed the point of - so I'm gonna let you keep on getting that self validation from going off at your skewed notation of what people are saying on an irreverent forum, have a nice night.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    In fact, I'd add to that; even assuming that British conservatives who are not particularly friendly to homosexuality used it as a stick to beat Islam. These conservatives might not be friendly to the idea of, say, gay marriage, but they don't want to kill us.

    The Islamic extremists do want to kill us. And yet you'd side with them over these conservatives? Whatever my political differences with conservatives, we still both believe in parliamentary democracy and the rule of law, we both believe women should have equal rights under the law, we both believe that homosexuals should be free from legal persecution.

    It's bizarre that anyone would be so desperately attached to their PC view of the world that says right-wing=bad, Islam=good, that they would become an apologist for people who literally behead the LGBT. You're like those NUS crackpots who are so achingly PC that they actually come full circle and become bigoted (like passing resolutions condemning gay men for "acting like black women"

    I don't know about you, but I know who I'd rather associate with and who, when it really comes down to the fundamentals, has my back and who doesn't.
    Great responses. It's also worth noting that even the idea that conservatives are all a bunch of homophobes is total childish rubbish. Douglas Murray (a famous critic of Islam) is gay and a major supporter of gay rights, and then of course there is Milo Yiannopoulos. These are two of the most prominent right-wing journalists around at the moment.

    I consider myself a pragmatic liberal, so I'm not out to defend conservatives, but I think this kid needs to be made aware of just how little of a clue he has.
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    (Original post by F.SA)
    In Yemen and Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. Other countries also have anti-gay laws such as Swaziland, Russia, Kenya, India, and the Ukraine and many others. So, I'll be interested in seeing a lot of countries have their laws reformed, not just Islamic ones.
    Yemen and Nigeria are majority Muslim countries. Nothing you said counters what I said.
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    (Original post by neal95)
    Another stain on the medical profession and Islam. The profession is really losing its shine these days
    What are you going on about please?
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    I concede man, you clearly know my personal views and and opinions better than me. Damn, you sure showed me how uneducated I am on topics that you have no actual means of quantifying how much I know about.

    In other news, gay people now solely refers homosexuals but luckily for me you've decided I am a gay man. I'd like to extend my gratitude to you for seemingly disregarding everything I've said and generating your own concept of me for you to argue with (apparently complete with his own backstory and views on political and religious discourses) but I love myself too much to try to communicate with people who chant those 'PC gone mad' style rhetoric at comments that they missed the point of - so I'm gonna let you keep on getting that self validation from going off at your skewed notation of what people are saying on an irreverent forum, have a nice night.
    What a weasel response.
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    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    You make comments like this and then scream Islamophobia when we criticise you.

    Do you have any capability for rational and unbiased thinking and arguments?
    Simply explaining the justification given by the religious teachings. What's worse, a death in the temporary life or an eternal punishment?

    Anyway I'm not going to say any more. I've already been warned simply for explaining Islaams position on the matter...somehow the mods have equated that means I am spreading my own personal hate speech.
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    (Original post by nikolateslacles)
    Damn, you sure showed me how uneducated I am on topics that you have no actual means of quantifying how much I know about.
    Your ignorance on these subjects is very easily deduced from the nonsense you wrote.

    Anyway, by failing to engage with the substance of the points I made and instead quoting my comment as "hilarious mess from start to finish" you've demonstrated that you're dishonest and tacky. I already knew you weren't very bright, but adding in these other character failings and it becomes clear how little profit is to be had in interacting with you.

    Good day.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Great responses. It's also worth noting that even the idea that conservatives are all a bunch of homophobes is total childish rubbish. Douglas Murray (a famous critic of Islam) is gay and a major supporter of gay rights, and then of course there is Milo Yiannopoulos. These are two of the most prominent right-wing journalists around at the moment.

    I consider myself a pragmatic liberal, so I'm not out to defend conservatives, but I think this kid needs to be made aware of just how little of a clue he has.
    Cheers dude, much appreciated.

    And well said He's obviously completely ignorant of the existence of people like Murray, Harris and Hitchens who in their diversity of political orientation show how little this critique of Islam has to do with traditional conservatism.

    Quids says that he probably swallows his political views whole from the usual hard left sources and thus is incapable of conceiving of criticism of Islam in any terms except that of traditional left/right politics

    He's made clear he's wholly disinterested in genuine debate, all he has to offer is petty insults and half-formed ideas.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    There are no "much larger religions". Islam is the largest religion in the world.

    And Islam is certainly the only religion that kills gay people anymore. The only religion comparable in size, the Catholic Church, teaches that homosexual conduct is sinful but notably they don't actually lobby in the West to outlaw it and the majority of Catholics disagree with the Vatican hierarchy. Polls consistently show a majority of Catholics even support gay marriage.

    The same could not be said for Islam. It clearly is the worst offender, by far, when it comes to the abuse and persecution of gay people
    Actually, Christianity is the largest religion in the world. And I do realise that Islam is the worst offender. I am all for the reformation of Islamic laws, what I am not all for is discriminating against Muslims (particularly those who dont live in Islamic countries with these laws) because of these laws! I just want it SPECIFIED, that the point of this is to promote reforming certain Islamic laws on homosexuality, NOT to promote the idea that Islam is bad, lets all not like Islam. Upon reviewing what I wrote, I can see this isn't very clear and my have been biased by my background.
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    Simply explaining the justification given by the religious teachings. What's worse, a death in the temporary life or an eternal punishment?
    That makes no sense. If a gay person is executed for homosexual conduct in Islam then they are going to hell. Their execution doesn't wipe away the "crime" in the eyes of Allah
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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...osexuality.jpg

    These portraits were from the Ottoman Empire after the Sultan legalised homosexuality during Tanzimat reforms...

    (Inb4 I get banned )

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