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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    Read this please https://islamqa.info/en/94840
    Too long. What does it say about slavery in Islam that I've gotten wrong??
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    (Original post by Bliss_)
    I dont understand how i was unreasonable and ignorant just cause what you wrote probably didnt match with what you meant and lead to you thing 2 people didnt get what you were tryna say. Anywho, i'd like to end this on a lighter note by saying thanks for slamming anti-muslim rhetoric. good day pal
    No, you went way too far off-course I didn't say what you decided to say I said. I thought I was quite clear.

    Whatever.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Too long. What does it say about slavery in Islam that I've gotten wrong??
    Well read it because i dont know. I read it and it made so much sense but i dont know what your misconceptions are. If your saying its too long it proved you dont want to know making this argument pointless as you think you are right.
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    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    However, your point is can be ignored and is incorrect to some extent as not only religious exclusivism (pertaining to religion exists) as inclusivism and religious pluralism exists as well.
    Very good point, but a lot of them claim to be the only true truth, whilst being contradictory to each other, no?
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    God must have existed forever (I have no idea if that even made any sense) because God is all-powerful(omnipotent) so only God the almighty could have designed such a complex world.

    That's such a tough question, no one can answer it.

    This is an extremely tough question...
    Haha.No. The very definition of God well in Islam is atleast that the creator that "has always existed and has no beginning or an end". Secondly, the thing that created God would be god rather then the false "god" who was created as it does not fit the very definition of God. Finally , in Surah ashura ayah eleven , it says god is in no way like the creation; this would suggest it is quit impossible for the human brain to comprehend God. Therefore, its useless in thinking about this repetitional loop as the thing that created the false god must also have a creator. Therefore, we accept that God by very definition does not have a beginning .
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    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    This is an extremely tough question...
    Haha.No. The very definition of God well in Islam is atleast that the creator that "has always existed and has no beginning or an end". Secondly, the thing that created God would be god rather then the false "god" who was created as it does not fit the very definition of God. Finally , in Surah ashura ayah eleven , it says god is in no way like the creation; this would suggest it is quit impossible for the human brain to comprehend God. Therefore, its useless in thinking about this repetitional loop as the thing that created the false god must also have a creator. Therefore, we accept that God by very definition does not have a beginning .
    I said God must have existed forever, which is the same as when you were referring to God always existing, if you were reading my first sentence.
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    Very good point, but a lot of them claim to be the only true truth, whilst being contradictory to each other, no?
    No,
    The belief that people can reach God through different religions.

    I forgot the keyword of this definition.
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    Islam in the core is to believe in God alone . Prophets came to support this and gave proof in there own way. The reason Islam is very arguable is because it is meant to be 'timeless' and for everybody. People will attack it with any form on information they get without research for example 'Muhammed married a 6 year old' well in reality that was culture not religion. Obviously religion wont interfere there BECAUSE WE HAVE FREE WILL, now days it is seen as unacceptable times a billion and every Muslim agrees but that is mainly due to education. Without education people will want their daughters to marry as soon as they hit puberty as there will increase there chance of a better life and such. This does apply to men aswell but they hit puberty later COMPLETLEY.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    So, having a slave today 31st may 2016 are people still allowed to own slaves? Yes. The fact that the prophet promoted freeing slaves doesn't really redeem it. What about all those that were slaves over the years? Don't they matter, they had their own lives and ambitions cut because they had to serve their masters. If the prophet came today, a lot of Islam would be different, so to say Islam is timeless Imo is wrong
    In both Judaism and Christianity, slavery is allowed. To some extent, slavery is a part of Human nature.I can guess after reading that point , you will be building with guile and discontent , and well i understand but there are more slave TODAY then in when black slaves where captured by the UK and sent throughout the transatlantic slave trade. And i emphasis and mean that these AREN'T sweatshop workers these are actual hard labor / sex slaves that exist in the world.But where is all the outcry? Anyway leading onto my main point as much as you might deny it ,slavery is sadly deeply ingrained in Human nature and all Islam has done is try to solve it and improve the conditions of slave's as it is impossible to abolish it even sadly in the foreseeable future.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.
    Then i exhort you to elaborate your comment because it sure as heck sounded like that because two separate people have derived that meaning from YOUR comment.
    it didnt just *poof* into my head
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    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    In both Judaism and Christianity, slavery is allowed. To some extent, slavery is a part of Human nature.I can guess after reading that point , you will be building with guile and discontent , and well i understand but there are more slave TODAY then in when black slaves where captured by the UK and sent throughout the transatlantic slave trade. And i emphasis and mean that these AREN'T sweatshop workers these are actual hard labor / sex slaves that exist in the world.But where is all the outcry? Anyway leading onto my main point as much as you might deny it ,slavery is sadly deeply ingrained in Human nature and all Islam has done is try to solve it and improve the conditions of slave's as it is impossible to abolish it even sadly in the foreseeable future.
    If it said dont have slaves that would only mean muslims would have no slaves yet other people will, simply put you will critisize anything about islam but you will still do it (not you pearsonaly but as in non Muslims). Its like alchohol. It is bad and muslims are not allowed it others still drink it . if islam didnt allow slavlery that would change nothing. Islam can only give them rights and improve their living standards as it will always occur direct or indirectly.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    No,
    The belief that people can reach God through different religions.

    I forgot the keyword of this definition.
    Yes, but would polytheism nullify the monotheistic God?

    If not, say if there were a God that people followed that says there is no other God, at all. If people felt the presence of that God, it would negate your God. Or your presence-feeling would negate that person's God. In this scenario, who 'evidence' should I take?
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    Very good point, but a lot of them claim to be the only true truth, whilst being contradictory to each other, no?
    Actually if we look at the main three religions : Christianity,Islam,Judaism(not to be mixed up with the race) , all have very similar beliefs as the latter two both descend from Judaism and are continuations for each era suited to that cultures needs .Therefore , many of them aren't at all contradictory with each other. From a wider scope, all religions are quite inline with each other and don't contradict fairly often i.e dont murder (or other obviously morally "bad" acts) or you will be punished as due justice.While if you live your life with impeccable morals , you will not only fulfill your own life but also help others and receive heaven as due justice.
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    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    Then i exhort you to elaborate your comment because it sure as heck sounded like that because two separate people have derived that meaning from YOUR comment.
    it didnt just *poof* into my head
    Well, yes it did just *poof* there because I didn't say it. My point was about the leaders and the country itself - not the people in it. Not the individual muslims. That's silly.
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    Yes, but would polytheism nullify the monotheistic God?

    If not, say if there were a God that people followed that says there is no other God, at all. If people felt the presence of that God, it would negate your God. Or your presence-feeling would negate that person's God. In this scenario, who 'evidence' should I take?
    Everyone believes in the same God, such as Muslims who believe in Jesus as a prophet. Christians believe in Jesus as the son of God. Both monotheistic religions. That another perspective someone could take.
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    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    Actually if we look at the main three religions : Christianity,Islam,Judaism(not to be mixed up with the race) , all have very similar beliefs as the latter two both descend from Judaism and are continuations for each era suited to that cultures needs .Therefore , many of them aren't at all contradictory with each other. From a wider scope, all religions are quite inline with each other and don't contradict fairly often i.e dont murder (or other obviously morally "bad" acts) or you will be punished as due justice.While if you live your life with impeccable morals , you will not only fulfill your own life but also help others and receive heaven as due justice.
    Yes, I understand that.

    And what you consider "good values", I don't think one needs a religion for it. One doesn't need a religion and a God to "not kill". Usually, in my opinion, people normally cherry-pick out the the good parts (but that's another debate).

    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    receive heaven as due justice.
    Going to heaven and hell are very important things (these decisions obviously have great consequences). That would work well if "morality" isn't such a complex issue and one that changes over time, and other factors. For example, eating meat could be considered heavily immoral in 100 years time. I eat meat. Would I not have these "impeccable moral" if I die 100 years later?
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    Everyone believes in the same God, such as Muslims who believe in Jesus as a prophet. Christians believe in Jesus as the son of God. Both monotheistic religions. That another perspective someone could take.
    Except Muslims believe the Bible and the Torah are corrupted whilst Christians don't believe that. A considerable and important contradiction.

    Also, you didn't answer my question
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    Yes, but would polytheism nullify the monotheistic God?

    If not, say if there were a God that people followed that says there is no other God, at all. If people felt the presence of that God, it would negate your God. Or your presence-feeling would negate that person's God. In this scenario, who 'evidence' should I take?
    If you are referring to my point , you are slightly confused with the the end conclusion you have received.

    My point is even though there is ONE god, you can reach salvation through and religion i.e Islam or Christianity or even Buddhism . All you must do is be a not "*****y human being" as to paraphrase one of my favourite authors quotes.
    Non-religious evidence could be :
    *Near-death experiences
    *Miracles ( you don't have to believe in a religion to believe in a miracle)
    *Paranormal
    *Reincarnation or de javu
    Just as a side note no this is not what i personally believe~~
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    Except Muslims believe the Bible and the Torah are corrupted whilst Christians don't believe that. A considerable and important contradiction.
    1. that is religious differences between people not the contradictions in the actual scriptures. A valid point would have been more along the lines of Christians and drink alcohol while Muslims cant which is A clear contradiction.However, this would bring me to the second point which both relates to this point and your question.

    2. If we take the original scripts , must Muslims would argue they would be quite similar. Secondly, the very core of all three religions is EXTREMELY similar. there is no point nit-picking or proverbially saying you are squirting water from a toy water gun against a raging torrent of similarities.
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    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    If you are referring to my point , you are slightly confused with the the end conclusion you have received.

    My point is even though there is ONE god, you can reach salvation through and religion i.e Islam or Christianity or even Buddhism . All you must do is be a not "*****y human being" as to paraphrase one of my favourite authors quotes.
    Non-religious evidence could be :
    *Near-death experiences
    *Miracles ( you don't have to believe in a religion to believe in a miracle)
    *Paranormal
    *Reincarnation or de javu
    Just as a side note no this is not what i personally believe~~

    Hang on, what do you mean by "not being a *****y human being". I think Trump/Ted Cruz is, many (including many Christians) don't... Would Ted Cruz reach salvation even though he may or may not be a "*****y human being". Normally, religions (well, orthodox abrahamic ones) have some sort of book... are you saying we don't need these books and just not be "*****y human being", which is or isn't defined. If we go back to my meat-eating analogy (mentioned in a previous post), I would be a "*****y human being".

    btw on a curious note, which author was it?

    I understand what these evidences are or could be. I'm just saying is the nature of these evidence reliable and not subject to confirmation bias?



    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    1. that is religious differences between people not the contradictions in the actual scriptures. A valid point would have been more along the lines of Christians and drink alcohol while Muslims cant which is A clear contradiction.However, this would bring me to the second point which both relates to this point and your question.
    Well, the thing I was discussing was that the other poster's claim that Christianity and Islam are the same because they both believe in prophet Jesus... which isn't true.

    (Original post by paragonofpie)
    2. If we take the original scripts , must Muslims would argue they would be quite similar. Secondly, the very core of all three religions is EXTREMELY similar. there is no point nit-picking or proverbially saying you are squirting water from a toy water gun against a raging torrent of similarities.
    I know the core values are similar, as I said before I agreed with you on that (though there are differences in core values which again is a totally different debate). The point was, they aren't the same just because they both believe in the same prophet... and btw, the poster sfhkh didn't even answer my question, it was a side point to what I asked. Which, in hindsight, I shouldn't have addressed.
 
 
 
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