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64% of TSR want to remain in the EU... share your vote Watch

  • View Poll Results: How will you be voting in the EU referendum?
    Remain
    2,378
    56.28%
    Leave
    1,023
    24.21%
    Don't know yet
    278
    6.58%
    Won't be voting
    546
    12.92%

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Again, you are missing the very critical point that from day one the US was a political Union, the EU was not, even if that was always the end goal it was not the starting state. If you then get people joining not understanding this goal, which we did, and people still deny as an end goal, then is it a wonder that when the political union is coming about they don't want to stay?
    Yes, a political union (of convenience), and I'm not naive enough to pretend the cases are identical, but to deny there are any similarities is also pretty naive.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Yes, a political union (of convenience), and I'm not naive enough to pretend the cases are identical, but to deny there are any similarities is also pretty naive.
    Except you're using the irrelevant parallels to overlook the very reason the referendum is happening. You're using the parallel that both are political unions, despite the critical difference of one being creeping the other by initial design. What are your other relevant similarities?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Except you're using the irrelevant parallels to overlook the very reason the referendum is happening. You're using the parallel that both are political unions, despite the critical difference of one being creeping the other by initial design. What are your other relevant similarities?
    1, stop with the hostility. I'm not coming out pro or against the referendum, there's no need to treat me like a traitor just because you think my opinion differs to yours.

    2, pretending there aren't similarities between two large blocs which, yes, have different languages, different laws, different backgrounds and who them sought to join together, no matter which way, is putting your head in the sand.

    3, my original point, the one that everyone jumped on as if I'd just shot a dog, was that to suggest "the US wouldn't be part of a group like the EU" is a bit far-fetched considering the US is remarkably similar but not the same.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Can you tell me the name of the country Barack Obama is from? The full name?
    Is that your only argument to my whole post?
    Your point is absolutely irrelevant. What I meant was that the people in the United states of America would never let half of their laws come from a foreign capital. A united states of Europe would be very different to the USA.
    Your lack of argument shows how weak the remain campaign is.
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    Anyone undecided needs to watch this :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
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    Leave.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
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    Really undecided on this. Went to a debate between an 'in' MP and an 'out' and still sitting on the fence. I was convinced that leaving the EU would probably help Britains economy, trade and innovation, but as someone who wants to study in Europe for a year or so, personally it would be better for me if we stayed in. It's difficult because no one is giving straight facts as to what would be affected.


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    (Original post by ~Cerridwen~)
    Really undecided on this. Went to a debate between an 'in' MP and an 'out' and still sitting on the fence. I was convinced that leaving the EU would probably help Britains economy, trade and innovation, but as someone who wants to study in Europe for a year or so, personally it would be better for me if we stayed in. It's difficult because no one is giving straight facts as to what would be affected.
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    It's pretty much established that Britain would be worse off economically (unless they abolished the NHS and the welfare state.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    It's pretty much established that Britain would be worse off economically (unless they abolished the NHS and the welfare state.
    That hasn't been established at all.

    All you know is the ******** long term predictions will be wrong on both sides.

    The can't predict 3 months ahead never mind 14 years. Osbourne and the BOE haven't got one prediction correct since the conservatives came to government in 2010


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    (Original post by Davij038)
    It's pretty much established that Britain would be worse off economically (unless they abolished the NHS and the welfare state.
    You mean you trust long term economic modelling when even shirt term ones make astrology look respectable?

    And popular opinion is against you on this one, and actually aggregated group though tends to be fairly accurate

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    (Original post by ~Cerridwen~)
    Really undecided on this. Went to a debate between an 'in' MP and an 'out' and still sitting on the fence. I was convinced that leaving the EU would probably help Britains economy, trade and innovation, but as someone who wants to study in Europe for a year or so, personally it would be better for me if we stayed in. It's difficult because no one is giving straight facts as to what would be affected.


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    If you are voting to REMAIN, do it because you genuinely believe in the European project and are happy with its direction and with the migration situation in the UK. That is what you will have for certain if you vote to remain.

    In your particular case, the chances of you not being able to study in Europe because of Brexit are about 0 (zero). Norwegian, Swiss and students from everywhere in the world study now in the UK, Switzerland and every other European country. Very few European countries try to keep students away (if any), and they will certainly not begin with British students.

    Don't fall for the scaremongering from the globalists and the big money on the REMAIN side. I can easily show studies that EU migration is a loss too, and nobody really knows what will happen on the economic front. There is always uncertainty there.

    However, what is certain is that EU law will remain supreme, that more EU regulations will come, that the UK will keep sending millions to Brussels, that the EU will keep expanding and that the UK will not be able to control large part of its new laws and new migrants, with a potential for a big increase from Turkish, Ukrainian and Albanian accession. Those are certainties.

    Scaremongering has been done elsewhere. It has been used for pushing the Euro in Great Britain, and few argue today that the UK would be better off in the Eurozone.



    You will lose your jobs
    You will become irrelevant in the global arena
    The EU will treat you worse than Osama Bin Laden

    Sound familiar?

    The question should not be "have we gone too far to change our mind?", but rather "would we want to join the EU as it is today?"
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    The line of the Brexiters is that these people are the same people that failed to predict the financial crash and wanted to join the Euro.

    Mark Carney (BoE)) is credited with harbouring Canada as the worlds most successful central banker during the crash. Vince Cable predicted the Crash. Gordon Brown vetoed is taking on the Euro. All credible economists and economic institutions predict immediate short term hit to our economy perhaps leading to a recession

    EU expansion has been curtailed for the next five years- And Turkey txt going to join - they don't want to and they wouldn't be accepted even if they did meet all the requirements (since 1975 they've met 3/20)
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    (Original post by paul514)
    That hasn't been established at all.

    All you know is the ******** long term predictions will be wrong on both sides.

    The can't predict 3 months ahead never mind 14 years. Osbourne and the BOE haven't got one prediction correct since the conservatives came to government in 2010
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    That's like becoming a creationist because Charles Darwin didn't get everything right...
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    That's like becoming a creationist because Charles Darwin didn't get everything right...
    Is it?

    It's a matter of fact not one of their predictions have been correct


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Is it?

    It's a matter of fact not one of their predictions have been correct
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    Carney rightly predicted a number of trends during the financial crisis as Canada's governor that steered Canada out of recession. What has he done outside of linking Brexit with economic instability that causes you to doubt his ability or what he has to say?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Carney rightly predicted a number of trends during the financial crisis as Canada's governor that steered Canada out of recession. What has he done outside of linking Brexit with economic instability that causes you to doubt his ability or what he has to say?
    They make several predictions on growth per year all have been wrong and if trends are all you are interested in then the same trends made by him for brexit are also growth.

    Major fail


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    If we stay we have muppets making decisions

    If we leave we have muppets making decisions

    #VoteKieran4PM
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    I would vote in, because I would like to see a Europe sharing a common currency, capital and legislature. A Britain outside the EU would stand no chance on the world stage against countries such as China and India whereas Britain within a European superstate would have no barriers to globalisation and trade. All we really need after voting to stay in is TTIP.


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    (Original post by macromicro)
    It's scary how close this referendum is going to be due to short-sighted simpletons who wear Union Jack underwear and think we need to close the borders.

    It would be a massive step back in the progression we've made and would have to be reversed at some point in the future. The entire world is going to be one large union eventually - we need to all get used to that fact and help achieve it.
    The only flaw in your latter statement is is that you seem to forget that all previous attempts at world empires have failed/ended in war. Think of the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, the Persian Empire, the USSR, the third Reich, etc... endless lists of failed world unions.

    People do need identity, a feeling of belonging to similar people. Seeing as there is currently no proof of life outside Earth, its sensible to assume no-one would really gain a sense of identity from being an inhabitant of the Earth.

    The EU I agree does want to create a world union eventually like so many empires and unions before it. Personally I would prefer to have good relationships with Europe without having political ties, and be able to celebrate belonging to my country with the wonderful multicultural society we have in our country today, hence why I wish to vote leave on the 23rd of June.
 
 
 
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