Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    surely you're joking. you're probably resting this upon some kind of cryptic technicality about how you're technically allow to not wear the hijab in some specific area of the nation. that's not the same as it not being mandatory for the rest of the country though.
    Only in Saudi and Iran is the headscarf actually obligatory for women to wear under custom :s
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    There are certain philosophical arguments claiming that the dilemma you're creating here is effectively a false one. A simple one is that there's a distinction between inherent omniscience and total omniscience, with inherent omniscience being that God can know anything that can be known that He chooses to know.
    well surely you're implying that god purposely stupefies himself.

    Total omniscience is where you know everything that can be known, and as such can't choose to not know things.
    oh god, you are. I swear I didn't pre-read that before hand. I'm reacting as I'm reading.

    Some theologians will argue that God is the former, and chooses to not know the future so that human free will remains intact, for the sake of whatever test he's cooking up.
    well I guess I can only say that that's really stupid then. I mean clearly this would be a seriously delusional deity that would do that for such trivial causes. ultimatley this is a deity that chooses to play games with himself. and if this is the kind of argument that justifies this kind of god then this god is so clearly not real.

    Omniscience can also be defined as knowing everything that is logically possible, and from then it can be argued that it's not logical to know future events, as they're not actual things in that they don't exist yet and you can only know of things that currently exist and have existed, or some such like.
    but god exists throughout all space and time. he exists at the beginning and he exists at the end. he is beyond space and time too apparently. I don't see how he wouldn't be able to know the future when he's literally overlooking time itself

    also, speaking of "logically possible", most of the bible's miracles are scientifically impossible, and science is based on mathematics applied to reality, like I told the other person - this kind of thinking is self-defeating for god
    • #19
    #19

    Idk how much I have a say on this matter as I'm a Christian boy,

    There are 7 strict muslim girls in my school and only 1 of them is a hijabi. Sure, your circumstances may be different to theirs in terms of family views but it's possible. EASE IT OFF! By that I mean, make your time wearing your hijab smaller and smaller so that it's not a complete shock to your parents but they'll understand that you and your hijab are growing apart. This may take years but finally, you will get to the point you want The hijab is a choice and I'm sure Allah will respect that choice even if your family wont at first but you are their daughter and they love you
    Best of luck sister
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    well I guess I can only say that that's really stupid then. I mean clearly this would be a seriously delusional deity that would do that for such trivial causes. ultimatley this is a deity that chooses to play games with himself. and if this is the kind of argument that justifies this kind of god then this god is so clearly not real.
    He causes tornadoes for the sake of a test apparently, nobody said his way of doing things was in any way rational to human beings. However that in itself doesn't necessarily imply his none-existence, though does imply irrationality and general weirdness. I guess it's rational to suggest that his reasoning is totally beyond any kind of human understanding if he's supposed to be some sort of hyper-intelligent, all powerful super thingy.

    but god exists throughout all space and time. he exists at the beginning and he exists at the end. he is beyond space and time too apparently. I don't see how he wouldn't be able to know the future when he's literally overlooking time itself
    Seeing as God's supposed to always be around it's a given that he'd exist at the beginning and at the end, though perhaps not at the same... "time"? I exist now, and most likely exist in the next 5 seconds provided I don't die in the middle of making this post, however I don't exist in the future right now, if you get what I mean. Perhaps it's the same for God.

    Existing outside of time wouldn't necessarily entail that God doesn't observe it in a similar fashion to how we do.

    All in all though this is admittedly the weaker of the two arguments in terms of it's logic.

    also, speaking of "logically possible", most of the bible's miracles are scientifically impossible, and science is based on mathematics applied to reality, like I told the other person - this kind of thinking is self-defeating for god
    I was detaching God from any kind of religious scripture and focusing purely on the concept. The Abrahamic God to me is totally nonsensical. The religious books around him (Bible, Qu'ran) are really quite daft and I can totally see why OP seems to be thinking Islam is rather rubbish.

    However taking the Bible 100% literally wasn't really a thing until the protestants showed up so some learned theologian would probably say that x, y and z stupid things that happen in it are metaphors or something. :dontknow:
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    He causes tornadoes for the sake of a test apparently, nobody said his way of doing things was in any way rational to human beings. However that in itself doesn't necessarily imply his none-existence, though does imply irrationality and general weirdness. I guess it's rational to suggest that his reasoning is totally beyond any kind of human understanding if he's supposed to be some sort of hyper-intelligent, all powerful super thingy.
    wait hang on, in the bible, jesus knew that judas was going to betray him, right?
    so surely this would mean that jesus (as part of the holy tripartite) *did* know the future in the sense that I was originally referring to? I mean, I'm sure there are *plently* of other examples from the bible that show this kind of future knowledge...oh nevermind...(sorry I would respond to the rest of your message but I have an exam tomorrow so I'm trying to balance TSR with work)
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    It's sad seeing so many of you hijack this thread when OP was simply asking for help.

    OP, I understand that it is not a simple case of removing a cloth as many have suggested earlier. Your best bet would be to wait until you move out for university. If you move to a university that is quite far from your home then your family relatives are less likely know straight away. Alternatively, you could slowly ease your parents/family into the idea of you not wearing it at all by wearing your hijab in a 'turban' style. Wear it very loosely on some days (with the front of your hair kind of showing) and then eventually take it off. I would say your best bet would be to do the former if your parents truly are as strict as you claim.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    'sure am, partner.
    in the middle east, the culture that muslims come from, they are FORCED to wear these things. that doesn't sound particularly feministic.
    Most muslims don't come from the middle east can I just point out.
    And what about western civilizations? Because I am sure as HELL that I am not oppressed against.

    If a woman wants to wear hijab, then so be it. If she doesn't, then she doesn't have to. And for those who are "forced", you'll find the majority of them happen to live in a country with an extremist regime.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    First things first; you're in a position through no fault of your own, you're not ugly, you're not bad.
    You're a fully functioning, questioning individual, a young woman in 21st century Europe - "village Islam" doesn't fit that, and quite right too. I draw a distinction between the religion and its conservative manifestation which may or may not be there.
    In the end we all make our peace with our personal God, or none. No one can influence that.
    Secondly, this is 21st century Europe. Within the Law, and that's Statute not Sharia, no one can tell you what to do.
    If you want to follow a more liberal interpretation of Islam, or dump it altogether, that's your business.
    There will be those that say "You're not a good Muslim" - well in my Book there's a passage that says "Let him without sin cast the first stone". There should be no takers.
    There are however some practical considerations, unique to your religious and social setting.
    Were you to dump the hijab, would you be in danger of personal violence, or waking up in Pakistan with no passport and betrothed to some second cousin you've never met? The fact the question has to be asked is a condemnation of village Islam, but we are where we are. If the answers are yes you need to be looking for the protection of the State and outside agencies - that is simply unacceptable.
    If your Dad went properly medieval on you and threw you out, could you support yourself, would you have somewhere to turn? Coming from a conservative background your contacts outside that milieu will be limited, do you have at least someone, Muslim or Anglo, who would support you through a bumpy ride? If the answers are no, then you need to do something about it, you might just have to walk off and make a new life - people do, people survive, people thrive.
    Only you know your circumstances and the above might sound like a council of despair, they are not, they are just markers to tick off on your path to a life well lived. There would be nothing worse than "coming out" and ending up back where you started, browbeaten.
    If you decide to change your life, make sure that you have options and contingencies, a plan, even if it's only a number of a refuge in your mobile. There will be help out there, you're not the only one.
    It may take time to get where you need to be to carry through whatever decision you make, but actively following a plan as opposed to being passively stuck in an unacceptable situation will hopefully lift your spirits.
    Whatever your decision, stay safe, best of luck.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hello!

    First of all, I'd like to say this thread is very hard to make for me since I've always portrayed myself as a 'proud' Muslim. I have been feeling depressed for the past, say, 4 years of my life. I'm turning 18 in the summer, and I have never felt so ugly, so depressed, so not my self. Imagine realising that you're not going to be able to do what you want in life... that you're living just to wait for death. That is how I feel. I feel completely trapped.

    My parents are conservative, very strict, very scary. My father moreso than my mother. My extended family are like that as well, you do one thing that they don't like and you're put under fire by the whole ****ing country. I have aunts and uncles here as well, and if I were to take it off all Hell would break loose.

    I just can't try and find justifications for some of the things in Islam. Like this verse in the Quran:
    "Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great." (4:34)
    This verse is in the Quran, it is not a hadith so you can say "oh that's just someone talking ****", it is the unadulterated word of God Himself.

    I just don't see a reason for covering my hair, I can be modest in my thoughts, I can be modest without a hijab. I love God and I hope he forgives me but I just don't understand why? If He made me the way I am and He loves me, why does He order men to rinse their hands from my touch?
    "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" (5:6)Am I created dirty?

    I just don't see how this could be 'misinterpreted'. And it's not even just Islam itself, it is the Muslim community. The backwards thinking, the hypocrisy, the oppression hidden behind smiles and empty arguments to trick yourself into believing it's the right thing to do. I don't want to lie to myself, and to God and to my family and say I want to represent this and I believe in this and it makes me happy. It doesn't. I am depressed. I feel like ****. I feel like I am losing purpose. I feel like my dreams are too far to reach.

    And I can't ignore it any more. It's been 4 years of constant **** and right now I am itching in my own skin. I am suffering so much and I know it might never end. Because I would be ridiculed and looked down upon and disowned by my own community/ family, nobody would want to marry me, I'm going to be pointed at my mothers who tell their children not to be like me. People are going to scowl in disgust when they hear my name. And I am a person who craves validation. If someone doesn't like me, I go out of my way to make them like me, so that would absolutely destroy me.

    Funny how a cloth on your head can do that to ya huh? But I don't know how to live my life the way I want and not to hurt or be hurt by those I love and those I call "family". I just need help. I don't need someone telling me I will go to Hell. God is merciful and will forgive my sins. You are not God.

    Any words of reassurance? Advice? Anything?
    wow u are yourself misinterpreting that quote and maybe you are because u got it from a wrong website of the quran (or one that hasnt been translated properly) for the first quote id suggest u read whats on thisweb page - http://www.islamtomorrow.com/article..._treatment.htm

    as for the second quote heres the proper translation of it fully "O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful."
    its talking about how u should do wudhu and u should know what that is as u say you're a muslim. the term contacted is i have checked on the same website and it's in the context of "any sexual move/contact made upon the partner" so basically saying if u cant find water to do wudhu then u just clean yourself with earth which is the final substitute.

    As for the hijab what it really says in the quran as i'm trying to sum it up in my words is all it says (about women dressing) is to dress appropriately but doesn't say to actually wear hijab but it does say u need to cover up things like hair when outside and breasts (and for this i don't mean just by covering it but trying to cover the cleavage as much as possible and the bulge). this is because (according to islamic research international inc IRII) that allah wants you to be differentiated on the streets and to keep you safe from any sexual harassment, because trust me, there are a lot of guys who stare at women out an about. And think about it, who would more likely a rapist take a women who covers all that or a women exposing all that.
    But it is up to u entirely dont worry bout it being compulsory jus go with ur heart
    Offline

    8
    Hey, Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T31YiQ4QdQY - Hope this helps!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    surely you're joking. you're probably resting this upon some kind of cryptic technicality about how you're technically allow to not wear the hijab in some specific area of the nation. that's not the same as it not being mandatory for the rest of the country though.
    I am not kidding . Whatever I said is the right thing . You have to update your information and check from where you are getting this rumors . I am living in Saudi Arabia for 16 years now ( since my birth ) no one forced me to wear the Hijab , it was my choice and my parents are Egyptians they never pressurized or forced me to wear it neither my country did . My people aren't all Hijabi's cuz its a choice not a rule as you said . Please don't spread wrong information and what I am saying doesn't apply to a part of the country . For Saudi Arabia , they are religious people and that's why you'll rarely find a Saudi girl without a headscarf but its not forced . Egypt is a completely open community and no one is forced there to wear the hijab .
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Saly_Elkady)
    I am not kidding . Whatever I said is the right thing . You have to update your information and check from where you are getting this rumors . I am living in Saudi Arabia for 16 years now ( since my birth ) no one forced me to wear the Hijab , it was my choice and my parents are Egyptians they never pressurized or forced me to wear it neither my country did . My people aren't all Hijabi's cuz its a choice not a rule as you said . Please don't spread wrong information and what I am saying doesn't apply to a part of the country . For Saudi Arabia , they are religious people and that's why you'll rarely find a Saudi girl without a headscarf but its not forced . Egypt is a completely open community and no one is forced there to wear the hijab .
    "While all versions of Islam suggest a woman should dress modestly, often covering her hair and body, Saudi Arabia is one of the only Muslim-majority countries that legally imposes a dress code (Iran is another). Women, foreign and local, must wear an abaya (a few get away with long coats) in public places. Muslim—often equated with Saudi—women are said to have to wear a headscarf; foreigners needn’t. The face need not be covered, much to the chagrin of some hardliners. There are margins and uncertainties, too. The western coastal of Jeddah is far more relaxed than Riyadh, with abayas often brightly coloured or worn open to expose the clothing beneath. At home with relatives, in compounds and all-female settings, women can shed their outer layers. At some posh private Red Sea resorts, they go in bikinis. While many women head to aeroplane lavatories just before landing, not being fully covered is tolerated in the airport."

    ^like I said, it's only specific areas where you aren't made to wear it
    and I don't know about it really but it could be because you're a foreigner, like the article says
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Saly_Elkady)
    I am not kidding . Whatever I said is the right thing . You have to update your information and check from where you are getting this rumors . I am living in Saudi Arabia for 16 years now ( since my birth ) no one forced me to wear the Hijab , it was my choice and my parents are Egyptians they never pressurized or forced me to wear it neither my country did . My people aren't all Hijabi's cuz its a choice not a rule as you said . Please don't spread wrong information and what I am saying doesn't apply to a part of the country . For Saudi Arabia , they are religious people and that's why you'll rarely find a Saudi girl without a headscarf but its not forced . Egypt is a completely open community and no one is forced there to wear the hijab .
    So you could go in the streets without your hijab if you wanted to?
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Saly_Elkady)
    I am not kidding . Whatever I said is the right thing . You have to update your information and check from where you are getting this rumors . I am living in Saudi Arabia for 16 years now ( since my birth ) no one forced me to wear the Hijab , it was my choice and my parents are Egyptians they never pressurized or forced me to wear it neither my country did . My people aren't all Hijabi's cuz its a choice not a rule as you said . Please don't spread wrong information and what I am saying doesn't apply to a part of the country . For Saudi Arabia , they are religious people and that's why you'll rarely find a Saudi girl without a headscarf but its not forced . Egypt is a completely open community and no one is forced there to wear the hijab .
    So, let me get this straight: you are claiming that you could choose to walk around without a hijab and abaya in a public place where the religious police will note this?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Saly_Elkady)
    I am not kidding . Whatever I said is the right thing . You have to update your information and check from where you are getting this rumors . I am living in Saudi Arabia for 16 years now ( since my birth ) no one forced me to wear the Hijab , it was my choice and my parents are Egyptians they never pressurized or forced me to wear it neither my country did . My people aren't all Hijabi's cuz its a choice not a rule as you said . Please don't spread wrong information and what I am saying doesn't apply to a part of the country . For Saudi Arabia , they are religious people and that's why you'll rarely find a Saudi girl without a headscarf but its not forced . Egypt is a completely open community and no one is forced there to wear the hijab .
    The hijab is an enforcible, legal requirement in Saudi Arabia. It's great that it is your choice to wear it, because even if it was not, you still would.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    So, let me get this straight: you are claiming that it you could choose to walk around without a hijab and abaya in a public place where the religious police will note this?
    Brainwashing was successful with this one.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    I'm an 18 year old Muslim female

    Hijab is not just a cloth on your head, it's obligatory, just as a man who keeps a beard.

    Hijab stops the male gaze from eyeing you up and down, as the way women are portrayed today.

    I feel your whole interpretation of Islam is wrong, and you've misjudged the concept of the Quraan quotes

    Hijab is what differentiates you from the ones that are not Muslim, you have to understand that hijab isn't there to make you suffer, it's one of the best protections God has sent down for Females.

    Would you pick a sweet that's unwrapped, or wrapped? Yes, I used that line, because it's a perfect example of how a woman who is covered, is pure and content with her beauty, showing it only to her Mahram. ( Husband, brothers, dad, son, nephew, uncle etc)

    Also, as Ramadhan is so near, take this blessed opportunity to reflect to Allah, speak to Allah, as he "does not burden a soul beyond that it can handle" This is a major test for you and your level of faith, as we are all tested with trials and tribulations, so please Dear Sister, do not fall into this trap

    O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember. (7:26)

    Islam isn't there to make life harder for you, rather, you are making it harder for yourself

    Private message me if you wanna speak about this one-to-one x
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Same here. Life sucks. I have also no one. I feel broken. Just broken

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Josb)
    Brainwashing was successful with this one.
    Either that or she's one of the people on here (whom I can't stand) that try deliberately to use the fact that they've been to KSA and most others haven't to mislead them for their own ends.

    Reminds me of something I once read in a history book about travellers to the New World who would come back to the Old and tell fantastic falsehoods to an unwitting audience about what it was like.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Either that or she's one of the people on here (whom I can't stand) that try deliberately to use the fact that they've been to KSA and most others haven't to mislead them for their own ends.

    Reminds me of something I once read in a history book about travellers to the New World who would come back to the Old and tell fantastic falsehoods to an unwitting audience about what it was like.
    People don't like to admit their failures or weaknesses.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.