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Why did God allow 50 innocent people to get murdered? Watch

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    (Original post by Josb)
    I disagree on that point. The three religions of the book worship the same god - all-knowing, omnipotent, eternal, creator, judge, etc. They disagree on his message.
    No one's denying they share those same qualities, but many if not most of the gods in history have been all-knowing, omnipotent, eternal, creators and judges, doesn't make them the same god.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    Huh, I thought Muslims believed that Jesus was not the son of God.
    We don't believe Jesus is the son of God, we believe he is one of many prophets who must be respected by all Muslims.
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    (Original post by Kendrik Lamar)
    Aaahhhh.....OK!

    Did you really just say that? Even when people have casual informal debates on theology they demand proof? What an uptight world yours is then.
    Are you serious? Yes, that is the point of debates, people put forward their point of view and provide evidence for that. That is not uptight, that is how discussions work.

    If I insulted anyone's intelligence, it would only be yours. But I didn't. Would you like me to start?
    With all due respect, you have done nothing but make baseless claims and are now saying that debates don't require evidence so if anyone's intelligence is at fault here, it's yours.

    WOW! Even with Google search and Wikipedia at your disposal all you managed to come up with is a scrambled incoherent and still wrong definition?
    Wrong again. The burden of proof is indeed the onus on the person making the positive claim to provide the evidence for it. And as you were making extraordinary claims it's on you to provide the extraordinary evidence, something you have completely failed to do.

    Which unfounded claim did I make about which reality? Please quote me.
    Sure. Let's look at your post 95 on page 5 of this thread and see the claims you make that aren't supported by any empirical evidence, shall we?:

    - "God exists"
    - "Humanity is all he cares about"
    - "You can't curse God coz of the ugliness that the devil is responsible for."
    - "Such unfortunate events cause much more pain to the guy above than to us humans."

    Now, instead of going off on a tangent to try and distract everyone, would you mind providing evidence for these claims (and btw, scriptures don't count).
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No one's denying they share those same qualities, but many if not most of the gods in history have been all-knowing, omnipotent, eternal, creators and judges, doesn't make them the same god.
    Plot Twist: they are three triplet brothers...
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    (Original post by kemalasik)
    We don't believe Jesus is the son of God, we believe he is one of many prophets who must be respected by all Muslims.
    How can Jesus be a liar and a respected prophet of Islam? I mean, if it is thought part of the NT are lies, why are the other parts about Jesus not also considered lies?

    And why didn't Mohammed follow Jesus' teachings?
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    This is one of my posts from another thread.

    I don't think it's worth trying to present a neat logical argument letting God off the hook. Any appeal to the free will defence or 'sceptical theism' or Irenaean theodicies will provide no comfort for the friends and families who are grappling with the loss of a loved one. As a Christian I take seriously the idea that the crucifixion is a powerful symbol in the face of evil, that Jesus' death and resurrection provides a source of empowerment, life and peace amidst the reality of Islamic terrorist genocide.

    That isn't palatable to most, and that's partly because it's not meant to be a theodicy. I believe Jesus' crucifixion is the hope of this world and the hope for any families grieving their loss. It's not a full answer, but if that's what you're looking for, good luck.
    I can't remember why I followed you, but what a beautiful post; not arrogant, but still offering a possible solution (I'm not sure what to call it.) :hugs:
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    If he exists he either isn't benevolent and/or doesn't give a toss about humanity.

    But the most obvious explanation is that God doesn't exist.
    (Original post by eden3)
    Oh FFS. We get it - you're an atheist. I'm not religious either but let people believe in whatever they want to believe in.
    eden3's in the lead! (in terms of rep. Planta 34 eden3 36. Looks like a competition.)
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    eden3's in the lead! (in terms of rep. Planta 34 eden3 36. Looks like a competition.)
    Lol :lol: - it's funny because he actually replied to my post saying "oh technically, OP didn't say people shouldn't believe, he's just asking a sincere question.." (I'm paraphrasing). Lmao, I think we all know what OP's intent was with this thread, no need to play dumb.

    I find it amusing that he deleted his response
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    (Original post by eden3)
    Lol :lol: - it's funny because he actually replied to my post saying "oh technically, OP didn't say people shouldn't believe, he's just asking a sincere question.." (I'm paraphrasing). Lmao, I think we all know what OP's intent was with this thread, no need to play dumb.

    I find it amusing that he deleted his response
    I didn't delete my post, it was removed. In any case, what I wrote was correct. Where's your evidence that OP is trying to stop others believing what they want to?
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    How can Jesus be a liar and a respected prophet of Islam? I mean, if it is thought part of the NT are lies, why are the other parts about Jesus not also considered lies?

    And why didn't Mohammed follow Jesus' teachings?
    Muslims don't believe he claimed to be the son of God. They believe that alterations took place in the Bible which is why a new religion was needed. The teachings of Jesus and Prophet Muhammed were the same mostly.
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    Firstly, it is most likely there is no God, if there is some kind of supernatural being for the sake of argument, he/she won't give a damn


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    asdfghjkl this is like rs revision ahaha time to bring out le free willlll..
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Are you serious? Yes, that is the point of debates, people put forward their point of view and provide evidence for that. That is not uptight, that is how discussions work.

    Wrong again. The burden of proof is indeed the onus on the person making the positive claim to provide the evidence for it. And as you were making extraordinary claims it's on you to provide the extraordinary evidence, something you have completely failed to do.

    Sure. Let's look at your post 95 on page 5 of this thread and see the claims you make that aren't supported by any empirical evidence, shall we?:

    - "God exists"
    - "Humanity is all he cares about"
    - "You can't curse God coz of the ugliness that the devil is responsible for."
    - "Such unfortunate events cause much more pain to the guy above than to us humans."

    Now, instead of going off on a tangent to try and distract everyone, would you mind providing evidence for these claims (and btw, scriptures don't count).
    How noble is it to only believe in what is already here right before you? Doesn't take much now, does it? I mean, even an infant child can believe what they see. Same with evidence. If you need to see it first in order to believe, then how much value really is there in that belief? Do you think the supreme most omniscient omnipotent existence would demean and lower Himself to such hollow standards of proof? Sight? Just think on it a sec.
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    [QUOTE=Wrong again. The burden of proof is indeed the onus on the person making the positive claim to provide the evidence for it. And as you were making extraordinary claims it's on you to provide the extraordinary evidence, something you have completely failed to do.[/QUOTE]

    Let's sort this out; I see you're a little confused.

    The 'burden of proof' is, in the case of God, a reciprocal responsibility. While it is true that those who say they believe in God ought to offer reasons for this belief, Atheism is also making a philosophical claim, that is, that God does not exist, and so evidence must be put forward for this standpoint also. If no evidence is put forward on both sides, we can have no opinion on the matter.

    Indeed, Atheism gives a terrible account of itself in this respect. There is no valid argument against the existence of God. God has never been disproved. Many Atheists, to cover themselves for this inadequacy, say that it is 'impossible to prove a universal negative' - yet Atheism involves a universal negative so, by definition, they're admitting Atheism is unprovable, which is what the religious person was saying in the first place! As for the 'lack of evidence' disproving God, I'm afraid that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so this does not work as a proof either.

    I would also contest the idea that there is no evidence for God. There is plenty: the Kalam cosmological argument, Liebniz's cosmological argument, the moral argument, the ontological argument, the standard design argument, the argument from Fine Tuning, argument from properly basic belief, historicity of the Resurrection etc. etc.
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    (Original post by Kendrik Lamar)
    How noble is it to only believe in what is already here right before you? Doesn't take much now, does it? I mean, even an infant child can believe what they see. Same with evidence. If you need to see it first in order to believe, then how much value really is there in that belief? Do you think the supreme most omniscient omnipotent existence would demean and lower Himself to such hollow standards of proof? Sight? Just think on it a sec.
    Is this meant to be some profound statement or something, because it rings rather hollow? You can substitute any kind of mythical creature into the second last line, doesn't make their existence plausible.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Is this meant to be some profound statement or something,
    Just address the statement. Never mind what it's meant to be
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    because it rings rather hollow?
    I'm sure to you it does. And I don't mean that as an insult.
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You can substitute any kind of mythical creature into the second last line,
    What other creature, mythical or else, has ever claimed or even been said to portray the traits in the line you refer to? None. So if all it takes is proclamation, don't you think there'd be dozens of fictional characters boasting the same attributes?
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    (Original post by Kendrik Lamar)
    Just address the statement. Never mind what it's meant to be
    I already did, my post was addressing the hollowness of the quote.

    What other creature, mythical or else, has ever claimed or even been said to portray the traits in the line you refer to? None. So if all it takes is proclamation, don't you think there'd be dozens of fictional characters boasting the same attributes?
    One can invent any mythical creature and give it all the qualities you listed and it would be no more or less plausible than God, as there is no evidence for any of them.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    One can invent
    Well, there's a reason why one hasn't yet invented.
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    (Original post by Kendrik Lamar)
    Well, there's a reason why one hasn't yet invented.
    God is invented, and there are thousands of gods.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    God is invented, and there are thousands of gods.
    We're not talking about the different names for God, or people's different perceptions of the same supreme being. I'm referring to any other entity that boasts the traits I mentioned, and then some.
 
 
 
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