Muslim and starting to doubt my religion

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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    He did post it. His thread got a lot of traffic and got removed by mods. The best rebuttal people had was that the mathematics of his argument was only applicable to the concept of mathematics the Indians first created. Though i don't think he came up with it, it's likely he copied it from somewhere, it was a very long explanation and I couldn't manage to read it all. It was an interesting thread though I must admit
    "The best rebuttal" implies his arguments were actually good when they were nothing of the sort. They were totally arbitrary mathematics that can be extracted from virtually any text. Just type "numerical miracles of Moby Dick" into Google and see for yourself. It's just people seeing what they want to see and manipulating random sets of numbers to fit reality.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Dawkins is a nub - "who created God?" - what kind of stupid question is that? I ought to give the full book a read some time, but when I read that specific part of the book, it dawned on me that he is an idiot.
    Why is it a stupid question?

    Oxford English Dictionary:

    Idiot (Savant): 1. A person who has learning or mental difficulties but is extremely gifted in certain ways. 1.1 A person who is unworldly but displays natural wisdom and insight.
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    "it is not saying that women are like donkeys and dogs, rather it is saying that the 3 have the common attribute of being a distraction during prayer" is the funniest thing I've read all day. :rofl::rofl::rofl: That's exactly what I always think when I see a donkey. "My goodness, I bet that animal is a major distraction to people who are trying to pray!" I mean, who doesn't? Honestly, the rubbish some people come out with in defence in their ideology. 'Donkeys are a distraction during prayer' is even better than 'slaughtering one animal when a girl is born and two when a boy is born proves how much Islam honours females'.
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    (Original post by ismail17)
    alright im going to start by saying that i as a person who follows the sunnah (sunni) know that women in islam are treated better than men.
    You've obviously not read the Quran or relevant hadith.
    The simple fact that husbands are allowed to beat disobedient wives (under certain coditions) alone is sufficient evidence that you are wrong.

    the latest studies done in states show that:

    african americans- for every boy that is born- there are 12 girls born!
    for caucasian white people for every boy there are 9 girls that are born
    And for worldwide, they say that for every 16 GIRLS, theres just 1 boy that is born!
    a ratio of 1:16 (boys: girls)
    WTF???
    Are you high?
    The proportion of males and females is around 50/50.
    Either you are massively ill informed, or you are a massive troll. That last point was so WTF that it must be the latter.
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    (Original post by muzi123)
    Inbox me il reply 2 all ur questions
    Could you copy them to me. I enjoy a good laugh.

    and see my post Proof the Quran is from God challenge 2 every1
    I haven't seen that. Post a link and I will explain why it is nonsense. Thanks.
    #14

    We find evidence in both Hadith books and history books that indicates Aisha must have been older than nine when she got married:
    • According to a hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE. However, because no one below the age of fifteen was allowed to accompany raiding parties, Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.
    • Ibn Hisham’s version of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, records Aisha as having converted to Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab, during the first few years of Islam around 610 CE. In order to accept Islam she must have been walking and talking, hence at least three years of age, which would make her at least fifteen in 622 CE.
    • Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`am’s son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.
    • Tabari also reports that Abu Bakr’s four children were all born during the Jahiliyyah (Pre-Islam Period), which has ended in 610 CE, making Aisha at least twelve in 622 CE.
    • According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was thirty-five years old, meaning Aisha was born when he was forty years old, and thus twelve when Muhammad married at fifty-two.
    • According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha was born about eight years before Hijrah (Migration to Medina). However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur’an , was revealed, “I was a young girl”. The 54th Surah of the Qur’an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Aisha had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl, not even only an infant at that time. So if this age is assumed to be 7 to 14 years, then her age at the time of marriage would be 14 to 21.
    • According to almost all the historians, Asma the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than Aisha. It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as in Ibn Kathir's Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma died in the 73rd year after migration of Muhammad when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73rd year after Migration to Medina, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of migration. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, if Aisha got married in year 1 AH or 2 AH (after Migration to Medina), she must have been between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
    • According to many Ahadith in Bukhari, it is believed Aisha participated in the both of Badr and Uhud battles. Furthermore, in Bukhari's Kitabu’l-Maghazi, Ibn `Umar states: "The Prophet did not permit me to participate in Uhud battle, as at that time, I was 14 years old. But on the day of Khandaq battle, when I was 15 years old, the Prophet permitted my participation". So, since it was not allowed for Muslims younger than 15 years old to participate in Uhud battle, Aisha, who participated in Uhud, must have been at least 15 years old in those battles; thus her age was at least 13 to 14 at the time of her marriage.
    • According to ibn Sa’d's Tabaqat and Ansab al-Ashraf books, opinions are in disagreement concerning her marriage with Muhammad. The marriage seems to have taken place either two of five years after the Migration (Usd al-Ghaba, 5:501).
    http://www.discoveringislam.org/aisha_age.htm
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    He did post it. His thread got a lot of traffic and got removed by mods. The best rebuttal people had was that the mathematics of his argument was only applicable to the concept of mathematics the Indians first created. Though i don't think he came up with it, it's likely he copied it from somewhere, it was a very long explanation and I couldn't manage to read it all. It was an interesting thread though I must admit
    Someone else trying to pass off cherry-picked data, probability and coincidence as "miraculous"?
    They do pop up occasionally, and rely on their own inability to understand mathematical concepts.

    As I often say to those who insist on these miracles, and reject the reasonable explanation, "Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it can't happen".
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Dawkins is a nub - "who created God?" - what kind of stupid question is that?
    Considering the context, it is a very important question, which religionists are conspicuously reluctant to answer.

    When talking about the beginning of everything, religionists usually make two assertions...
    1. Nothing can be infinite.
    2. Nothing can come from nothing.

    However, they also usually claim...
    1. God is infinite.
    2. He created the universe from nothing.

    And their explanation for this obvious contradiction is usually...
    "But he's god, so the rules only apply to you, not to us." Which can obviously be rejected, with not a small amount of ridicule.

    So, either god was past infinite (in which case, so was the universe stuff), or he was not.
    If he was not, then he had to come from somewhere.
    So where did god come from?

    Cue some version of "but he is god, so the rules don't apply", "he is the uncaused cause", and similar gibberish.
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    (Original post by OGGUS)
    Okay, I can understand you a little. Listen to some some Dhikr and remember the 99 names of Allah.
    I love this...

    "I have some logical, evidential and moral problems with Islam"
    "Don't worry, just do some Arabic chanting. Problem solved!"

    You need to study more about Islam and the value of woman.
    This is how the problems usually start. I didn't have a problem with Islam until I read the whole Quran. Then I was told that you can't just read the Quran, you need a tafsir to understand it. So I read a tafsir on some of the more problematic passages, and that only made it worse.

    I find that many Muslims know relatively little about Islam, certainly less than most ex-Muslims.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Dawkins is a nub, when I read that specific part of the book, it dawned on me that he is an idiot.
    It always tickles me when lightly educated indoctrinates claim to have a better understanding of the universe than internationally lauded professors who have produced work that has been proved via experimentation and prediction.

    And their justification for such hubris? "Dat old book sez!"
    Dunning-Kruger in full effect!
    #15

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I don't think she's real. Shes trying to make her religion look oppressive to her. Heres are some things you haven't considered. The husband's duty is to love, clothe, provide, show care, speak softly, comfort, compliment and love his wife. He is religiously obliged to satisfy his wife in bed regardless of whether he has been satisfied himself and even after reaching orgasm. He has to respect her rights and treat her body with respect - he isn't allowed to have sex with her before foreplay, he isn't allowed to force himself onto her. He isn't allowed to engage is anal sex = bad for health, unhygienic and painful. He isn't allowed to have her sex with her during her periods. Sounds very oppressive to me.
    The value you have placed on sexual well-being seems misplaced, if not downright deluded! I'd pose to you the example of a woman in Yemen who is prevented from being educated because of Islam's grip on Yemeni educational law.

    You also seem to forget that in wahabi Saudi Arabia, women are only travel with consent from her male guardian. These examples are of course just two of numerous cases of oppression of women as a result of Islam - and of course you are aware of these.

    Whilst you claim a woman recieving an orgasm is evidence for a lack of oppression on women by Islam, you seem to overlook major points of definite oppression of women in islamic societies to say the least.

    Any attempt to defend against such injustices is a clear result of islamic indoctrination and subsequent perverted thinking.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I love this...

    "I have some logical, evidential and moral problems with Islam"
    "Don't worry, just do some Arabic chanting. Problem solved!"

    This is how the problems usually start. I didn't have a problem with Islam until I read the whole Quran. Then I was told that you can't just read the Quran, you need a tafsir to understand it. So I read a tafsir on some of the more problematic passages, and that only made it worse.

    I find that many Muslims know relatively little about Islam, certainly less than most ex-Muslims.
    Your wrong. Your clearly a lost person. I had to be blunt there. You clearly weren't properly shown Islam and you didn't have it in your heart (soul). I pity you infact. (Ar Rouf) I think Allah pities you aswell. Sorry mate I got you.

    But I agree I didn't completely help her.
    I wanted more information on her before I could help her to be fair.

    Anyways thanks for quoting me bye.
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    I watched a video stating that Aisha(RA) was 9 years old when she was asked my the prophet (pbuh). As it was pretty normal for Arabs back then. The Prophet asked her father. And the age of puberty for girls can be as early as 10. So she had a year to get to know our Prophet(pbuh). I don't understand why people have a problem with Islam. Maybe it justs one of them times and signs. I guess. Hmm
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    (Original post by OGGUS)
    Your wrong. Your clearly a lost person. I had to be blunt there.
    Be as blunt as you like. I won't be offended.
    "A lost person"? Ouch!

    You clearly weren't properly shown Islam
    No, I wasn't "shown" Islam by Muslims with a vested interest in promoting Islam. I properly researched it myself, in the same way that I researched papers at uni, and my dissertation. I looked for myself, using pro- and anti-Islam sources. Looking at biographies of Muhammad and academic histories of Islam, weighing up claim and counter-claim, using logic and reason an analysis. And do you know what? The reality is somewhat different to what most Muslims are "shown" (I guess that includes your good self).

    I pity you infact. (Ar Rouf)
    Why, thank you.

    I think Allah pities you aswell
    I would rather he hadn't misguided me. The seal he has put on my heart and eyes and ears has made me apply logic and reason, rather than blindly and unquestioningly accepting what I am told. And because of his deliberate misguidance, I am doomed to an eternity of torture. What a ****!

    Sorry mate I got you.
    Yep, looks like you did.
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    you doubt your understanding of the religion
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    (Original post by OGGUS)
    I watched a video stating that Aisha(RA) was 9 years old when she was asked my the prophet (pbuh). As it was pretty normal for Arabs back then. The Prophet asked her father. And the age of puberty for girls can be as early as 10. So she had a year to get to know our Prophet(pbuh). I don't understand why people have a problem with Islam. Maybe it justs one of them times and signs. I guess. Hmm
    So you think that it is acceptable for a 53 year old man to marry and have sex with a 10 year old girl.

    I guess that bust be the wonderful morality of Islam that us depraved kuffar keep hearing so much about. Unfortunately, the seal of Allah's misguidance means that I find that kind of child abuse disgusting. I think it is unpleasant even in the context of 7th century Arabian culture. However, from the man who is claimed the be the best of all creation and the perfect example for all humanity, it is abhorrent.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So you think that it is acceptable for a 53 year old man to marry and have sex with a 10 year old girl.

    I guess that bust be the wonderful morality of Islam that us depraved kuffar keep hearing so much about. Unfortunately, the seal of Allah's misguidance means that I find that kind of child abuse disgusting. I think it is unpleasant even in the context of 7th century Arabian culture. However, from the man who is claimed the be the best of all creation and the perfect example for all humanity, it is abhorrent.
    She's the mother of the Believers. She kept 20 hadiths and was the teacher of the Sahabis. You need help I think maybe you should go to an Arab Mashjid or something. It'll be beneficial for you. You have a brain and heart(soul). Maybe listen to some Qu'raan. Surah Nooh maybe or something else. Like Surah Baqarah. Your a normal guy in my opinion questioning reality. It happens to the best of people.
    You seem very arrogant maybe that's the problem
    With YOU.

    Listen to Surah Noor
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    (Original post by OGGUS)
    She's the mother of the Believers. She kept 20 hadiths and was the teacher of the Sahabis. You need help I think maybe you should go to an Arab Mashjid or something. It'll be beneficial for you. You have a brain and heart(soul). Maybe listen to some Qu'raan. Surah Nooh maybe or something else. Like Surah Baqarah. Your a normal guy in my opinion questioning reality. It happens to the best of people.
    You seem very arrogant maybe that's the problem
    With YOU.

    Listen to Surah Noor
    Ah, you had me fooled for a few posts there!
    You are obviously a non-Muslim doing an ironic parody of a Muslim. It is actually pretty funny, but my time is limited so it would be nice not to have to write responses to people who already agree with me. There are people who genuinely think like that who need their views challenging.
    Cheers.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I was born and raised Muslim. The faith has a lot of good things about it.

    However recently, I am starting to have doubts. I'm not as religious as I used to be. Particularly being a female, I find some parts of Islam extremely sexist.

    For example women have to cover up, men can take up to 4 wives, Muslim women must only marry Muslim men, underage girls are allowed to marry as soon as start puberty ,women aren't allowed to leave the house without a male relative, women will make up the majority in hellfire because they are ungrateful to their husbands , sex slaves are permissible during war, woman's testimony often counts half of a man's testimony, women inheritance half that of a man, a woman must always obey her husband etc.

    But I've read up on all the above and I do appreciate some of them give good reasons as to why. But one thing I can't get over is the fact our prophet Muhammed (pbuh) married Aisha (r.a) when she was only 6 years old. The reason I've heard include those were the times it happened a lot then, She contributed to the spread of Muhammad's(pbuh) message and served the Muslim community for 44 years after his death, the marriage not being consummated until she had reached puberty at the age of nine or ten years old etc. It's really hard for me to overlook.

    But seriously if some joe public did that everyone would find it disgusting. What makes it a problem for me is that men are meant to follow the sunnah of the prophet. This means it's ok for Muslim men to take underage bride. It happens a lot in Afghanistan, Pakistan etc.

    I'm just starting to lose my faith a little and it is mostly to do with its attitude towards women.
    Hey,
    I was once in your position and now i'm an Ex Muslim, if you have any questions or need any support, feel free to message me
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Ah, you had me fooled for a few posts there!
    You are obviously a non-Muslim doing an ironic parody of a Muslim. It is actually pretty funny, but my time is limited so it would be nice not to have to write responses to people who already agree with me. There are people who genuinely think like that who need their views challenging.
    Cheers.
    Honestly I can't be bothered with your rubbish.
    You seem a little out of it. Maybe because you are naive or I dunno...
    Your weird is all I can say about you.
 
 
 
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