The I-SOC (Islamic Society) XIII

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    (Original post by h333)
    Assalamu Alaykum, how is everyone? :ahee:
    Wa'alaykumasalaam. Doing oright alhamdulillah, wbu?
    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    Every soul shall taste death

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    Not every soul will taste great after death though. So KO the bird and find out. :sigh:

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    (Original post by h333)
    Loool ok. Are you a Muslim?...I think you have been asked before but I am confused.
    not really sure tbh, but I have not abandoned Islam completely, I guess I'm going through a 'phase'.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Wa'alaykumasalaam. Doing oright alhamdulillah, wbu?


    Not every soul will taste great after death though. So KO the bird and find out. :sigh:

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    Good 😊 oright Alhamdulillah
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    (Original post by BasharAssad)
    not really sure tbh, but I have not abandoned Islam completely, I guess I'm going through a 'phase'.
    Oh you are not sure 😮 insha'Allah you won't have to 🙂 and may Allah guide and help you overcome this phase. Ameen.
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    (Original post by h333)
    Oh you are not sure 😮 insha'Allah you won't have to 🙂 and may Allah guide and help you overcome this phase. Ameen.
    Ameen.

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    (Original post by h333)
    Well, the bus timetable kept deceiving me smh. Bus got cancelled twice, right at the time when it was meant to be due 😂😭
    Well I was not alone, plenty of people frustrated about it. But Alhamdulillah I am just 2 bus stops away.

    Wait, I noticed something, I will pm you 😱
    Ah I hate when that happens. You should be home now then 🙅

    (Original post by IdeasForLife)

    Not every soul will taste great after death though. So KO the bird and find out. :sigh:

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    Add some spices and it will.

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    Wow, you guys have been busy...

    (Original post by guided1)
    Any one who accepts Allah, the Quran and Muhammad, prays and fasts is Muslim to me. If we say that someone is not a Muslim because they dont do this or do that then we end up like ISIS. Just because some people do this it doesnt mean thet we all have to. As far as I can see Majid Nawaz is only calling us away from conflict and violence so Allah would approve of his message. I would rather listen to someone saying stop the hate and kiling that listen to someone saying carry on the the hate and killing. Maybe I dont understand Islam properly or maybe it is people like you and Ideas for life who donrt understand it.
    I'm not going to delve into this debate, but I would just like to point something out as I have now observed it in more than one post.

    If something is wrong, it is wrong. It is proven to be as such using the evidences. However, repeatedly trying to prove something 'guilty by association' where even the suggested link is vague and ambiguous is not more than a logical fallacy. Iirc it is what is referred to as reductio ad Hitlerum.

    Secondly, there are certain acts that take one out of Islam. I totally agree with you that takfeer is something overused by some people, perhaps more so with some groups, and that isis are also guilty of this. However, certain beliefs or actions can bring one out of the fold of Islam (eg claiming divinity).

    Thirdly, idk a thing about Majid Nawaz. If he does good, this ought to be acknowledged - but likewise, we ought to acknowledge any bad that is from him and assess which of the two overpower our view of him. If someone does something good or praiseworthy, it does not necessitate that everything done by the person must be correct.

    That's all I wanted to mention, from a neutral perspective in this discussion


    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    I appreciate that and I was the same myself. But what I question is the authenticity and reliability of the Hadith particularly when we note that details of most Islamic rituals, jurisprudence etc. in fact do not derive from the Quran but the Hadith which are unquestionably man made. It still boggles my mind how people who do not understand anything about Islamic tradition, history or indeed want to are so emotionally dependent on the religion that they fail to even consider that their beliefs may be false.

    Historical facts prove beyond any shadow of doubt that there were no hadith collections existing at the time of the Prophet's death. History also proves that the early caliphs prevented the dissemination or recording of hadith. They essentially seem to have been written hundreds of years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad using tenous "chains of narration".

    Consider these facts:

    - The Prophet said something or did something.

    - People close to the Prophet recorded this event to memory.

    - They passed it down verbally to multiple people, who in turn passed it to multiple people.

    - About 200 years after the Prophet died these hadith were formally documented by Bukhari, Muslim, etc.

    - 200 years represents anywhere from 4 to 7 links in the chain of narration. So: person 1 told person 2 who told person 3 who told person 4 who told person 5 who told me that the Prophet said so-and-so. The ending pool of people is easily in the hundreds, if not thousands.

    - Those 200 years were a very highly politically and religiously charged time. Additionally, almost all individuals in the chain of narration were male, and the compilations were done by males.

    - While the people who compiled the hadith were noble in their efforts and very scholarly, even a hundred percent success on their part can only be as good as the words of the last links in the chain of narration. From what I understand, they compiled hundreds of thousands of hadith and then had to discard the vast majority of them. It was their own judgment that determined what stayed and what didn't.

    - The first links in the chain of narration were often close to the Prophet. So let's assume they were completely unbiased and true. But at each narration, the individual is further from reality. Personal biases, innocent misinterpretations, etc will impact the narration tremendously. These are average humans we are talking about here.
    When you say 'man-made', this has connotations of fabrication. The discussion of whether ahaadeeth are reliable or not is a long one, requiring both parties to discuss in detail, not really suited for the purposes of this thread.

    For now, suffice it to say that your presented argument is not beyond rebuttal and much can be said on such a topic.
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    why does it say soc8iety? Does that mean something?
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    (Original post by h333)
    Assalamu Alaykum, how is everyone? :ahee:
    Alhamdullilah, good. You?
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    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    Ah I hate when that happens. You should be home now then 🙅



    Add some spices and it will.
    Ikr. Ages ago lol. Had macaroni :ahee: and now tea with toffee popcorn :rofl:
    Oh totally forgot to reply to pm...will do now.

    (Original post by BigTraderBoi)
    why does it say soc8iety? Does that mean something?
    It is a secret code. Joke. No idea. Needs to get fixed though, looks weird.

    (Original post by ak143244)
    Alhamdullilah, good. You?
    :smile: good to know. Same Alhamdullilah.
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    (Original post by BigTraderBoi)
    why does it say soc8iety? Does that mean something?
    edited by mistake?
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    It was narrated from Shuraih thate wrote to 'Umar, to ask him (a question), and 'Umar wrote back to him telling him: "Judge according to what is in the Book of Allah. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah, then (judge) according to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW]. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah or the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW], then pass judgment according to the way the righteous passed judgment. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah, or the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW], and the righteous did not pass judgment concerning it, then if you wish, go ahead (and try to work it out by yourself) or if you wish, leave it. And I think that leaving it is better for you. And peace be upon you."
    Sunan an-Nasa'i 5399 - Saheeh (authentic)
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    Salaam
    Hope you're all well
    I had a quick question about Universitys, i'm currently in the application process and can't decide between Cardiff and Bristol. The course in Cardiff looks better but Bristol is more diverse and seems to have a wider islamic community so i'm drawn towards it more. Any suggestions/advice on which i should go for?
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    (Original post by ThatMuslimGuy)
    It was narrated from Shuraih thate wrote to 'Umar, to ask him (a question), and 'Umar wrote back to him telling him: "Judge according to what is in the Book of Allah. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah, then (judge) according to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW]. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah or the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW], then pass judgment according to the way the righteous passed judgment. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah, or the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW], and the righteous did not pass judgment concerning it, then if you wish, go ahead (and try to work it out by yourself) or if you wish, leave it. And I think that leaving it is better for you. And peace be upon you."
    Sunan an-Nasa'i 5399 - Saheeh (authentic)
    :top:
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    (Original post by Zara0526)
    Salaam
    Hope you're all well
    I had a quick question about Universitys, i'm currently in the application process and can't decide between Cardiff and Bristol. The course in Cardiff looks better but Bristol is more diverse and seems to have a wider islamic community so i'm drawn towards it more. Any suggestions/advice on which i should go for?
    I'd go for Bristol. It has a better reputation in general than Cardiff and the place is better as well.
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    Wow, you guys have been busy...



    I'm not going to delve into this debate, but I would just like to point something out as I have now observed it in more than one post.

    If something is wrong, it is wrong. It is proven to be as such using the evidences. However, repeatedly trying to prove something 'guilty by association' where even the suggested link is vague and ambiguous is not more than a logical fallacy. Iirc it is what is referred to as reductio ad Hitlerum.

    Secondly, there are certain acts that take one out of Islam. I totally agree with you that takfeer is something overused by some people, perhaps more so with some groups, and that isis are also guilty of this. However, certain beliefs or actions can bring one out of the fold of Islam (eg claiming divinity).

    Thirdly, idk a thing about Majid Nawaz. If he does good, this ought to be acknowledged - but likewise, we ought to acknowledge any bad that is from him and assess which of the two overpower our view of him. If someone does something good or praiseworthy, it does not necessitate that everything done by the person must be correct.

    That's all I wanted to mention, from a neutral perspective in this discussion




    When you say 'man-made', this has connotations of fabrication. The discussion of whether ahaadeeth are reliable or not is a long one, requiring both parties to discuss in detail, not really suited for the purposes of this thread.

    For now, suffice it to say that your presented argument is not beyond rebuttal and much can be said on such a topic.
    I would like to hear a rebuttal in summary regardless if that's ok
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    (Original post by guided1)
    Any one who accepts Allah, the Quran and Muhammad, prays and fasts is Muslim to me. If we say that someone is not a Muslim because they dont do this or do that then we end up like ISIS. Just because some people do this it doesnt mean thet we all have to. As far as I can see Majid Nawaz is only calling us away from conflict and violence so Allah would approve of his message. I would rather listen to someone saying stop the hate and kiling that listen to someone saying carry on the the hate and killing. Maybe I dont understand Islam properly or maybe it is people like you and Ideas for life who donrt understand it.
    The problem is that Alawites don't actually believe in those things as a matter of doctrine. Ibn Nusayr (the founder of the Alawite sect) broke away from Twelver Shia thought when he decided to announce himself as both a new Prophet and a representative of the so-called '12th Imam' that Shias believe was and currently is in occultation. He taught that praying and fasting were just symbolic things to merely think about, not acts of worship that one had to physically carry out. In addition to that, he also declared the rest of the Qur'an to be entirely allegorical and replaced our doctrinal beliefs on the afterlife with reincarnation. They even have their own Holy Book called Kitab al-Majmu' that is comprised of 16 new suras.

    The reason why some people are duped into believing that they are no different to ordinary Muslims is because throughout the ages, they have practised taqiya out of fear of persecution. They are taught to adapt to any religious belief necessary to survive. Which is why T. E. Lawrence described them as "those disciples of a cult of fertility, sheer pagan, antiforeign, distrustful of Islam, drawn at moments to Christianity by common persecution." The Jesuit scholar Henri Lammens also said that he thought the Alawites were Christians. However, when the Alawites secured positions of authority in Syria and Hafiz al-Assad became president, they decided, for the aforementioned reasons, to perform acts of worship as if they were Sunni. Which is why 10 years ago, most people were under the impression that Bashar al-Assad was a Sunni, as he did (and still does) frequently appear on TV praying in Sunni mosques in the format of a Sunni. When in reality, this is nothing more than a facade.
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    (Original post by ThatMuslimGuy)
    It was narrated from Shuraih thate wrote to 'Umar, to ask him (a question), and 'Umar wrote back to him telling him: "Judge according to what is in the Book of Allah. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah, then (judge) according to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW]. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah or the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW], then pass judgment according to the way the righteous passed judgment. If it is not (mentioned) in the Book of Allah, or the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah [SAW], and the righteous did not pass judgment concerning it, then if you wish, go ahead (and try to work it out by yourself) or if you wish, leave it. And I think that leaving it is better for you. And peace be upon you."
    Sunan an-Nasa'i 5399 - Saheeh (authentic)
    Prsom.

    (Original post by Zara0526)
    Salaam
    Hope you're all well
    I had a quick question about Universitys, i'm currently in the application process and can't decide between Cardiff and Bristol. The course in Cardiff looks better but Bristol is more diverse and seems to have a wider islamic community so i'm drawn towards it more. Any suggestions/advice on which i should go for?
    Wa'alaykum Assalaam,
    Others probably know better. But just look at the pros and cons for both and then compare. It might be easier to decide once you take into account all factors you can think of. Travel time and cost is very important and could help in the long term. Insha'Allah you go with what is best for you
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Some take it as offensive; some wear it as a badge of pride including prominent Shia figures like Amar Nakshawani, and historically Shia have accepted it as a label for themselves. It is only recently that some people start to take offence to it. Calling one a rejector is an accurate description of their beliefs; you could argue it is like using the word "negro" which simply means 'black' but is still considered offensive, but the term Rafidha and Negro are not on the same level, as one has historically been used by both Sunni and Shia in both good and bad ways, whereas the other has only really been used as a derogatory term or to strip the identity or humanity of black people, only later being adopted by blacks to lightly address each other in limited contexts and occasions.
    thanks for your views. I was of course answering a post which referred to the Syrian situation

    in my view, and in the present context (Syrian crisis), saying that there is a "religious war" going on against Muslims, conducted by alawites, rafidhi and Russians, means in practice : conducted by alawites, jaafari twelvers (in particular, Hizbullah and Iranians) and Russians

    in short, it means that a substantial part of Shias are not simple "rejectors", but enemies of Islam and Muslims

    however, as per the well-known mariachi rule, this will be my last post on the subject on this thread

    ah, and, of course : best
 
 
 
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