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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    I completely agree on the rest, just don't think the court case was the reason for that game. Terry wasn't even the reason you shipped 5 goals anyway, Ivanovic was at fault for goal 4, tactics were at fault for 5 (counter), Cole for 3 and 1 and 2 were tactics.
    I guess.

    Tbh Terry wasn't as poor as people made him out to be in those tactics. Same for under Benitez when people were saying our best CB is David Luiz :rolleyes: people are blind tbh.
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    (Original post by Zürich)
    I think it was Alan Hansen who said that defending the 6 yard box, Mertesacker would be in his top 3 defenders in the world. Defending at the half way line, not in his 300. Hard to disagree with that. The guy will just head or block anything when he's got his back to the wall, did it many times last season actually, but he hasnt got a prayer when their is space behind.

    You could see that in the WC as well after vs Algeria, Low realised that it was suicide to play Mert in his system and bit the bullet. Wenger should do the same and go Kosc+ Chambers if he wants them to play on the half way line with attacking wing backs.

    Comparing Lovren to him is thus very difficult, it really depends on the situation youre trying to play. Lovren is no doubt more versatile whereas Mert is a bit of a specialist. He gets away with a lot because Koscielny is like grease along the pitch and loves to attack the ball. Unfortunately against top teams away, you cant rely on that as weve found.
    i agree - i think the thing about mertesacker is that if he doesn't have the right partner the defence can crumble.
    if you don't have a pacey partner for him or you play too far up the pitch you're screwed because top teams will see that straightaway and catch you every time.
    personally i rate koscielny highly and i think he partners mert really well, so the only problem arsenal really have is when wenger has an old man moment with his tactics.

    as for lovren, you got it spot on - he's more of an all round defender, capable of more or less everything which is good for our system since rodgers generally changes our formation a fair bit.
    however without a competent partner there isn't much he can do, especially when you have mignolet at the back who just likes to venture off his line for no reason and give substitutes from a random bulgarian team open goals...
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Would also say that Terry's poor performances was down to him being part of a racism case, noticed that the QPR game was right before the Arsenal game. It doesn't hold weight to him. It wasn't him who just got exposed either.

    I said before that Mertesacker would be exposed in Liverpool's system more than Lovren, which is basically the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying he's a bad defender but we have to compare in systems, I believe as a safety first defender Mertesacker is better than Lovren, as a front foot ball playing defender Lovren is better. Arsenal's defence is decent but you're never going to see the best of it because of terrible tactics so you can only judge by what is there.

    Well when Chelsea played Bayern, Barca etc. we parked the bus, had ten men for both of the games and did a much better job in defence than Arsenal, plus against Bayern in the final we had no protection for the defence at all bar Bertrand and Kalou.
    I think we have strayed away from the original point I was trying to get across to be honest. I wouldn't excuse his form on just that racism case though, your whole defence was left exposed under those tactics which is what we have to deal with watching Arsenal play decent opposition away from home. I think a lot of people out there assume Mertesacker is useless defender because of his lack of pace and use the big away games as some sort of concrete proof of his inabilities. As Zurich said, he is a perfect defender to have in the right system.

    I agree that he would be found out in Liverpool's system but I haven't once compared him to any of Liverpool's defenders, I think someone else made that claim. I couldn't bare to imagine a team consisting of Mertesacker, Skrtel and Gerrard.
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    Rodgers is slowly adding the players who match his system.

    I'd say Sakho, Lovren, Moreno and Manquillo do (though we'll see the best of them later in the season/next season).

    The only problem left is Gerrard - he just doesn't have the legs and the system (when we don't have the ball) makes him a bit of a passenger.

    I think Sturridge will start on the bench tomorrow. Not sure if we will see two up top. You expect Balotelli to start but I'm not sure who will start with him.

    Everton have conceded a lot of goals this season like us so it could be a goalfest..
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    Is Can bought to be Gerrard's successor? Or has he been bought to play alongside him when one of Allen/Hendo can't.
    Asking because its almost become a trending thing that Gerrard plays horribly for the first half of the season and to be frank I don't think Gerrard has more than 2 seasons left in him.
    I dont really see Can as being that guy, i dont think he offers the protection but im only judging this on him play on the right side of CM, so its hard to say considering I know he's played there before.
    If we want to really secure a 4th place spot then Gerrard is the most important thing to improve on, I'd say this summer we should be trying to get someone who offers the mobility to be able to get around and cover/offer protection and really importantly has more versatility so that we have the option to play him in 2 as well as a 3 if needs be.

    Tbh if you look at Gerrard some games now he's not even playing DM he's more or less positioned as a 3rd CB because he slots in between when we push up. Gerrard can make a tackle but he'll be exposed more and more often agaonst teams who counter with pace in that position and we will have more Demba Ba moments.
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    (Original post by Mr Pink)
    I think we have strayed away from the original point I was trying to get across to be honest. I wouldn't excuse his form on just that racism case though, your whole defence was left exposed under those tactics which is what we have to deal with watching Arsenal play decent opposition away from home. I think a lot of people out there assume Mertesacker is useless defender because of his lack of pace and use the big away games as some sort of concrete proof of his inabilities. As Zurich said, he is a perfect defender to have in the right system.

    I agree that he would be found out in Liverpool's system but I haven't once compared him to any of Liverpool's defenders, I think someone else made that claim. I couldn't bare to imagine a team consisting of Mertesacker, Skrtel and Gerrard.
    The defence was left exposed but how bad was it really, we lost 5-3 to Arsenal, however we also beat City 2-1, lost to United 3-1 and drew 3-3, drew to spurs 1-1, lost to Liverpool 2-1, we won vs Everton 3-1 and then lost 2-0.

    We did not lose once by a 3 goal margin, despite how bad our tactics were... yet every away game Arsenal did vs the top 5 they lost by at least a 3 goal margin, conceding 6 goals to Chelsea and City and 5 to pool. It's not in any way comparable to Chelsea who equally played suicide tactics like Arsenal. Plus when it came to it and AVB/Di Matteo put a bus in front of goal it was pretty much unpenetratable.

    (Original post by So Instinct)
    Tbh if you look at Gerrard some games now he's not even playing DM he's more or less positioned as a 3rd CB because he slots in between when we push up. Gerrard can make a tackle but he'll be exposed more and more often agaonst teams who counter with pace in that position and we will have more Demba Ba moments.
    That's Rodgers system, the 3rd CB allows better control of possession as you can recycle possession and the fullbacks push higher up, It's not even supposed to leave him exposed anyway as he supposedly has another 2 CBs to run it, it's where he's meant to get the most protection as long as you avoid putting a run on the defence, if anything the people in front of him should be helping out more. This is reminiscent of when Real Madrid played the 4-3-3 last season. Henderson is essentially the di Maria of the team but you're missing the Modric who can get you up the pitch with play making skills. In reality Coutinho should be that man or Lallana.
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    Really looking forward to your game - feels huge.

    Absolute must-win as If you loose, its as-good-as the title race is over.
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    I think Ballotelli needs to get more clinical. He's not the type of player who would be satisfied with a spot on the bench.
    Everton is a really tough opponent with their pace on the wings and Howard should be a good test for liverpool and I think liverpool must play with really tight spaces between defenders as the champions league teams will easily abuse that like Real madrid for instance.
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    (Original post by jam278)
    The defence was left exposed but how bad was it really, we lost 5-3 to Arsenal, however we also beat City 2-1, lost to United 3-1 and drew 3-3, drew to spurs 1-1, lost to Liverpool 2-1, we won vs Everton 3-1 and then lost 2-0.

    We did not lose once by a 3 goal margin, despite how bad our tactics were... yet every away game Arsenal did vs the top 5 they lost by at least a 3 goal margin, conceding 6 goals to Chelsea and City and 5 to pool. It's not in any way comparable to Chelsea who equally played suicide tactics like Arsenal. Plus when it came to it and AVB/Di Matteo put a bus in front of goal it was pretty much unpenetratable.


    That's Rodgers system, the 3rd CB allows better control of possession as you can recycle possession and the fullbacks push higher up, It's not even supposed to leave him exposed anyway as he supposedly has another 2 CBs to run it, it's where he's meant to get the most protection as long as you avoid putting a run on the defence, if anything the people in front of him should be helping out more. This is reminiscent of when Real Madrid played the 4-3-3 last season. Henderson is essentially the di Maria of the team but you're missing the Modric who can get you up the pitch with play making skills. In reality Coutinho should be that man or Lallana.
    Exposed in the sense that he will always get pressed by the striker(s) or a front 3 if the teams playing 4-3-3, that's how teams shut him down they always just sit someone on him (e.g. against WH it was Downing, against Villa it was mostly Agbonlahor) and if he happens to lose the ball while sitting deep as the 3rd CB then the team has a free run on goal 1v1 because the 2 normal CB's split to either side to rotate the possession around while the fullbacks are pushing up as you said, if not then they just have a run on our defense. Teams seem to have just worked out how to shut Gerrard down and expose his him by giving him no room or time.

    It's not even a bad system, it's very good with the right person but you deffo need someone more mobile there, someone with Gerrards passing ability but with Lovrens body would be much better in that spot, the pace, ability to track runners, kill off any penetrative runs/dribbles and decent last ditch tackling to make up for any errors.
    We're deffo just making do for the first half of the season, March onwards Gerrard will probs be alright if you take his form as a pattern.

    WTB Fernandinho pls.
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    Hart to Liverpool ? Surely not...
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    Welcome Squad
    At work during the game tommorow :mad:

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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    Really looking forward to your game - feels huge.

    Absolute must-win as If you loose, its as-good-as the title race is over.
    we aren't in the title ace at all - it's must win because it's a derby and we need to get and stay ahead of unnited, spurs and everton.

    (Original post by MiaSanMia)
    I think Ballotelli needs to get more clinical. He's not the type of player who would be satisfied with a spot on the bench.
    Everton is a really tough opponent with their pace on the wings and Howard should be a good test for liverpool and I think liverpool must play with really tight spaces between defenders as the champions league teams will easily abuse that like Real madrid for instance.
    true but let's give him time first maybe.

    i'd quite like to see a diamond with lambert and balotelli up top.
    lambert didn't play well on tuesday but i think rodgers needs to learn how to utilise him best.
    he's decent at holding the ball up and laying it off but he's really good at beating centre backs to headers, flicking them on for a runner in behind.
    balotelli isn't a speedster like sterling, but he's much more mobile than lambert and coupled with his strength they could play off each other quite well until sturridge gets back.

    (Original post by Bromaldehyde)
    Hart to Liverpool ? Surely not...
    why not?
    not heard anything concrete but i wouldn't say he's an unnatainable target for us if swe don't get valdes.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    we aren't in the title ace at all - it's must win because it's a derby and we need to get and stay ahead of unnited, spurs and everton.
    True, and neither are my team (arsenal) or so it seems at the moment.. really I think everyone can only see 2 title race teams this year..

    But by all means both of our teams should have been in the title race.. had the summers gone better (you not lost players, and we actually signed players) Just kind of shows how much of a big difference a transfer window can make..

    Still think its important, even if realistaclly neither of our teams are going to win the league, to be seen to be challenging for it.. it boosts moral, and gives the extra motivation which may end up proving enough to get into CL Spots..

    For you guys though, a loss tommorow is just awful, that would be 4 losses out of the first 6 games, and recovering from that would be a nightmare..

    I tihnk you can do it though - still predicting: 3-2 liverpool
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    Not filled with confidence ahead of tomorrow.
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    We'll win, we always do
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    (Original post by Quickmedicalhelp)
    We'll win, we always do
    1 win in the last 4 = "always" lol
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    True, and neither are my team (arsenal) or so it seems at the moment.. really I think everyone can only see 2 title race teams this year..

    But by all means both of our teams should have been in the title race.. had the summers gone better (you not lost players, and we actually signed players) Just kind of shows how much of a big difference a transfer window can make..

    Still think its important, even if realistaclly neither of our teams are going to win the league, to be seen to be challenging for it.. it boosts moral, and gives the extra motivation which may end up proving enough to get into CL Spots..

    For you guys though, a loss tommorow is just awful, that would be 4 losses out of the first 6 games, and recovering from that would be a nightmare..

    I tihnk you can do it though - still predicting: 3-2 liverpool
    I can only see chelsea winning it with city being the only team remotely close to them.

    Admittedly our games have been hard but a loss tomorrow gives 6/18 points which is an absolute disgrace.
    Everton isn't the easiest match to win considering our local rivalry however it has come to be a must win simply because we've lost games that should've been simple.

    You gotta pick up points somewhere; if you're losing to the likes of West Ham and villa you'll have to counter it by beating a bigger team like everton or Spurs.
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    The Everton game is basically a 3 point banker for Liverpool at Anfield. Just cant see you lot not getting the win. However if Everton beat you, then alarm bells should start ringing.
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    (Original post by Nedum Onuoha)
    1 win in the last 4 = "always" lol
    He obviously meant the derby at Anfield jackass.
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    (Original post by CB91)
    He obviously meant the derby at Anfield jackass.
    Obviously? :confused:

    If that's the case then 1 in the last 2/2 in 4/3 in 7 = "always" lol
 
 
 
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