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    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    In fact, have Hamas ever even broke a ceasefire?


    um Yes, it's not even much of a secret because they issue press releases...

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0726/633213-gaza-israel/

    ]Hamas breaks extended ceasefire by firing rockets into Israel

    ...The Ezzedine al-Qassam brigades said in two separate statements that it had fired two rockets at Tel Aviv in central Israel, and five at Nachal Oz in the south.

    doesn't anyone else wonder what hamas thinks it's got to gain by firing rockets into it's massively more mighty neighbor? could it be in anyway to provoke counter attacks upon it's human shielded rocket positions in an attempt to engage sympathy?
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    (Original post by Mystery Me)


    So, do you agree with him?

    Also, you people who support Israel. I have a question for you. I may sound naive and ignorant. I have spent quite a lot of time, analysing your opinions on why you choose to support Israel. And my analyses resulted in a conclusion. You people "hate Islam and muslims" because of all the chaos that they've created all over the world. Which is understandable.

    But are you really looking for a peaceful solution? Your views which are fuelled by hatred and anger towards a religion and a community as a whole is in itself opposing your peaceful ideas of living in this society as humans? Aren't you supposed to help and support the victim regardless of the religion he's following? What did the children of Gaza do to suffer and go through such a painful experience?
    that made me lol hard I love Russell Brand, i pretty much agree with him on everything. He's so chill.

    That interviewer pissed me off majorly, it's people like him that make Americans look pretty bad even though there's lovely people there.
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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-co...hool-1.2722260

    After Israel being told the location, Oops, should have heard the UN guy in the school getting interviewed, hell of a lot of rage right there.

    It's okay though, cos Israel knows the truth, all UN workers are in fact secretly member of Hamas and thus UN personnel/facilities are fair game...

    Also I may be being dumb here but the justification for a lot of the strikes now is to destroy this tunnel network.

    If they know where tunnels are, one assumes this must mean they have found the entrance to the tunnel on their side, because it's not like you can walk in and find them on Palestines side. Even if not, there is a an area of scrubland "no mans land" between the territories, logically all tunnels must pass through this, so..why not bomb the land in-between to collapse the tunnels, instead of firing at apartment blocks and hoping the weight of a collapsing building destroys a tunnel below it...or at least I assume that's the justification?

    You know since they could, maybe Israel should literally flatten the entirety of Palestine with an enormous barrage. Wouldn't exactly surprise anyone and with America backing them no one is going to dare do anything. Russia gets sanctioned up the eye balls for possibly being involved in MH17, Israel gets.... "yeah killing UN staff is bad m'kay...but erm...carry on we guess...".
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    civilian casualties are a inevitable part of war - they weren't a few centuries ago where two armies picked a field and clashed swords, but warfare has moved on and that won't happen these days - what they're saying isn't naive, it's a basic part of war
    It's a hell of a pinpoint operation
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    Why are Hamas not even contemplating agreeing to a ceasefire?
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    (Original post by EL704)
    Just get rid of gaza all together.... make it a no go zone - fill it with sea water, because there is always going to be fighting there no matter what...

    Oh it was my land... no wait it's mine.... it's such a pathetic reason to kill so many people who don't give a crap and just want to live without all of that BS. It's become excuse after excuse to breed hatred in the region built on religious differences that aren't a whole lot different, and to breed the fear that extremists love to take advantage of...

    If people don't like it as it is now, they should move. If you're Jewish, go to Northern Israel, if you're Muslim, there's a hecka lot of muslim countries that would welcome you with open arms.

    Same with other areas of conflict at the moment - if you want to be Russian, go to Russia, if you want to be British come on over to Britain .... if you feel THAT strongly you're willing to kill, it would be way more logical to just move and retain peace....

    I mean, you don't see me rocking up in Birmingham, demanding "The Land of my Fathers" back, as it used to belong to the Celts do you? .... hold up.... why haven't I done this!!!! Come forth fellow Welshies! we must reclaim Birmingham!!!!!!

    I don't believe bombing is ever the answer.
    We should out you in charge of the Northern Ireland conflict.

    How incredibly over simplified. I bet you're nice and comfy in your home right now. Let's say armed robbers with guns come in to your home then tie your family up. They confine you to one room in the house and let you have water and food when they choose. You can't go school or work, you're a prisoner. They rewrite the mortgage in their name, take your TV, car and all your goods. Eventually they tell you to leave and they'll kill you if you look back. As you're leaving a bulldozer arrives to knock your house down because they own the land now.

    I'm sure you'll say "oh how petty you all are fighting over property" and move to Germany to live in a tent because nobody else wants you. Live your life happily whilst your dad's hard earned home is gone, you're degree in the bin, half your family and relatives are lying corpses. Yep, be the bigger man and brush it off. The handouts at those UN refugee sites are stellae
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    (Original post by Jooooshy)
    Why are Hamas not even contemplating agreeing to a ceasefire?
    Because if they are accepting anything bar a short humanitarian ceasefire they aren't necessarily getting anywhere. They want the blockade on Gaza lifting with international reassurance that it will stay lifted. They will have to be pretty badly beaten to agree to a ceasefire for anything less.

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    To date, Hamas have rejected/broken 5 ceasefires, 2 of which were Humanitarian ceasefires and 1 of which was their own ceasefire

    Israel rejected 1 proposal which was drafted by Hamas/ISIS-supporting Qatar and Islamist-run Turkey
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Because if they are accepting anything bar a short humanitarian ceasefire they aren't necessarily getting anywhere. They want the blockade on Gaza lifting with international reassurance that it will stay lifted. They will have to be pretty badly beaten to agree to a ceasefire for anything less.

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    Of course the blockade only came about because of rocket fire.

    Seems a bit odd to then fire even more rockets to lift a blockade that was put in place because of rockets.

    But I guess terrorists don't often make sense.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)

    I know that you struggle with understanding implications in written text, and rather just see the obvious meaning without really thinking about the implicit meaning of a statement. For this reason, I'd like to explain that this person is not blaming Hamas for carrying out the attacks but rather for the fact that the attacks were carried out while it was in power and not enough was done to stop it. You're welcome.
    Shh, pipe down a little.

    So because an Israeli official states that "HAMAS is responsible", is HAMAS responsible?

    You haven't justified WHY HAMAS is responsible and you will never be able to. Just because it governs the strip, it doesn't automatically mean that it is responsible for the actions of the Palestinians.

    Hell, it doesn't even fully control it's own armed wing.

    I did.
    You thought you did but this was based on a misconception.

    Yep, your ability to twist people's words and even go as far as claiming they did something they actually did not. For evidence, see the relevant section at which this 'trademark' comment was directed.
    "Damn, you people have single handedly monopolised whataboutery" (Or words to that effect).

    Care to explain exactly how that is "twisting people's words" and how exactly I claimed "you said something which you clearly did not"?
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Of course the blockade only came about because of rocket fire.

    Seems a bit odd to then fire even more rockets to lift a blockade that was put in place because of rockets.

    But I guess terrorists don't often make sense.
    What's even more odd is that:

    a) Israel invades to dampen rocket fire but it astronomically increases.

    b) Israel invades to destroy tunnels but more tunnels are being used.


    It's almost like HAMAS and the Palestinians are taunting the Israeli's and the Israel's have swallowed it hook, line and sinker...
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    To date, Hamas have rejected/broken 5 ceasefires, 2 of which were Humanitarian ceasefires and 1 of which was their own ceasefire

    Israel rejected 1 proposal which was drafted by Hamas/ISIS-supporting Qatar and Islamist-run Turkey
    Maybe you would like to list these "broken ceasefires"?

    Also, isn't breaking/rejecting a ceasefire the same thing? I'm wondering why you decided to engage in a bout of tautology.
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    I think there's a difference between "cheering" and understanding conflict and all it entails.

    I don't want Israel to go through this every 12 months and I'm sure most of the palestinians don't.

    Israel made a massive gesture in leaving Gaza. Now you'll no doubt jump in and say it wasn't 100% and that a row of bushes wasn't returned or something - but the fact is that Israel made a massive move and massive gesture by leaving Gaza.

    They got more terrorism than ever.

    So the onus is not on Israel, it's on palestinians.

    When they've had enough of destruction and death, give Israel a call and let them know.
    This post smacks of intellectual dishonesty.

    If you move from a place where you weren't supposed to be in the first place, how does that equate to a "massive gesture"?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Maybe you would like to list these "broken ceasefires"?
    Can't be bothered to be honest.

    Also, isn't breaking/rejecting a ceasefire the same thing? I'm wondering why you decided to engage in a bout of tautology.
    No. They agreed to 2 ceasefires and then broke them.

    Others were rejected out of hand.


    (Original post by tsr1269)
    What's even more odd is that:

    a) Israel invades to dampen rocket fire but it astronomically increases.
    There's always a spike in fire when one begins to retaliate. For the past week the rocket fire has been in and around 60-ish mark bar one day. Which is a reduction.


    b) Israel invades to destroy tunnels but more tunnels are being used.
    That doesn't make sense. There are lots of tunnels and it takes time to find and destroy them.

    It's almost like HAMAS and the Palestinians are taunting the Israeli's and the Israel's have swallowed it hook, line and sinker...
    Seems to me they're crying a lot.

    Now asking Hezbollah to come and save them.

    Of course they're a bit busy dying in Syria.
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    (Original post by Jooooshy)
    Why are Hamas not even contemplating agreeing to a ceasefire?
    If they do, they go back to living under a siege.

    Israel, the "only democracy in the ME", likes to practice collective punishment against the Palestinians.
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Can't be bothered to be fair.

    No. They agreed to 2 ceasefires and then broke them.

    Others were rejected out of hand.
    As you "cannot be bothered" to list the ceasefires which you claim that HAMAS had broken/rejected, it shall remain as your opinion.

    An erroneous opinion, at that...
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Can't be bothered to be honest.



    No. They agreed to 2 ceasefires and then broke them.

    Others were rejected out of hand.




    There's always a spike in fire when one begins to retaliate. For the past week the rocket fire has been in and around 60-ish mark bar one day. Which is a reduction.




    That doesn't make sense. There are lots of tunnels and it takes time to find and destroy them.



    Seems to me they're crying a lot.

    Now asking Hezbollah to come and save them.

    Of course they're a bit busy dying in Syria.
    Can you now give us the figure for ceasefires Israel has rejected or broken before they're over. And FYI, no matter what the propaganda officer says, it's not 0.

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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Of course the blockade only came about because of rocket fire.

    Seems a bit odd to then fire even more rockets to lift a blockade that was put in place because of rockets.

    But I guess terrorists don't often make sense.
    I'll come round to your place of residence, occupy it for half your life and tell you how to live in poverty etc and completely ignore what you say and see if you remain peaceful. If you get at all aggressive I will then build a fence around your place of residence anr control what's allowed in amd out, making your poverty even worse. I wonder how long it will take you to start throwing rocks at me.

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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Shh, pipe down a little.

    So because an Israeli official states that "HAMAS is responsible", is HAMAS responsible?

    You haven't justified WHY HAMAS is responsible and you will never be able to. Just because it governs the strip, it doesn't automatically mean that it is responsible for the actions of the Palestinians.

    Hell, it doesn't even fully control it's own armed wing
    Well, it should. It's like Hitler saying he didn't fully control his Nazi officials therefore he should be acquitted (if he were alive and available for trial).

    It's like claiming that if country A's citizens actively target country B's citizens, and country A does nothing about it (except glorify it), country B should also sit by idly and do nothing and let it happen.


    It is Hamas's responsibility to crackdown on its islamist jihadists. It doesn't. In fact it supports acts of terrorism, as was outlined by one of the reuters sources which I provided. I don't blame Israel for going in and doing what Hamas has failed to do and has in fact supported. If they cared for peace, they would ensure that such acts were scarce rather than applaud them.

    What about the kidnap tunnels? I guess those are perfectly fine, right? I guess Hamas should be allowed to terrorize the entire Israeli population with those tunnels as that is within the rights of a legitimate government?

    Israel wants to keep its civilians safe. Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel in its charter. Of course they're not going to trust those terrorists to do anything to protect Israel's citizens.

    Then again, I suppose you don't really care about them because throughout your posts you have shown much concern for the Gazans and little to no concerns for the Israelis.


    ...

    On the other hand, Hamas has cracked down on alleged 'spies' in the past. So it's not like they don't have the resources to do so.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A460R720140507

    'Hamas refuses to recognize Israel and its charter calls for the destruction of the Jewish state.

    Under local law, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is meant to have the final say on whether executions should be carried out. Hamas has refused any such consultations, though it entered a unity deal with Abbas last month designed to end a seven-year rift.
    Human rights groups have repeatedly condemned the use of the death penalty in Gaza, but Hamas rejects such criticism.''

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Can you now give us the figure for ceasefires Israel has rejected or broken before they're over. And FYI, no matter what the propaganda officer says, it's not 0.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I posted above saying that Israel rejected one proposal which was penned by Hamas/ISIS-sponsoring Qatar (whose beheaders are currently rampaging across Iraq) - and Turkey, lead by an arrogant, mouthy, Hamas-supporting Islamist extremist who also supported the slaughter in Syria.

    The truce proposal (according to Israeli media) barely even mentioned Israel or its security.

    Naturally a ceasefire proposal by terrorists for terrorists was rejeced.

    Israel has accepted all humanitarian ceasefires though.
 
 
 
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