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Guy put on sex offenders list because girl lied about her age

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At least the guy realised what he had done and pleaded guilty.

Its right that he has had a suspended sentence rather than actual jail time BUT I think something really needs to be changed here. The girl claimed she was 16, so he is going to believe her isn't he? (Given that she clearly looked it). Its not like every guy uses the Spanish Inquisition when he's looking for funky times.

I'm sure I've heard of a case where someone got charged for the same thing after he pulled a girl in a club. If the bouncers and bar staff can't work out she is under age, what hope does a boozed up guy have?

Reply 301

EDIT

mart2306

So to you he is the victim maybe?
But in the eyes of the law she is the victim by virtue of her age.

We raised the age of consent from age 12 to age 16 because children of age 12 were deemed not able to decide to have sex maturely. Regardless of whether she led him on or not, he was deemed the only person in that relationship capable of consenting to sex.

My argument isn't about the age of consent, it's about how he was unaware of her age and that he was effectively tricked. I don't think it's realistic to expect people to ID their partners - while the actual act of them having sex should be illegal I don't think it's right that he was prosecuted when he did not know he was doing wrong.

It's an unfortunate situation but prosecuting this 19 year old man is doing nothing, he believed she was 16. If he knew she was under-age then it's a different story but he is not a sexual predator for sleeping with an alleged 16 year old. The girls parents should have been notified and it should have been left alone.

Reply 302

cowsgoquack

Wangers

SO everytime you have sex you expect to see someone's passport?!

only the first time for each person, if there is reason to doubt their age

Reply 303

Марк

Everyone saying "but he should have been more careful so it's his fault" shows the double standards society has when it comes to responsibility. It is not a guys fault if a girl who claimed to be 16, and went to a large amount of effort to conceal her true age, actually turns out to be underage. The "shoulda been more careful" argument works both ways, suppose some semi-naked club slut flirts outrageously and then goes back to an unknown guys house and he rapes her. To suggest "well she shoulda been more careful" is considered very sexist, yet if a guy has consensual sex with a girl who to his knowledge is above the age of consent it's his fault and "he should have been more careful". This view is promoted by feminists, which is ironic because it seems to imply that women are inferior to the extent they aren't even capable of handling any sort of social responsibility, which is of course nonsense.

I never cared about this sort of thing before, but reading some people's veiws on TSR has confirmed in my mind that sexism against males is far more deeply ingrained into our modern culture than sexism against females is, it's like gender roles have changed for girls but not for guys, so a girl is free to pursue a carerr and live independently if she wants (which is a good thing) but women are still seen as vulnerable little fairy princesses absolved of any moral or social responsibility to themselves or others, as if to imply they need a man to take responsibilty for them, and so called feminists are the main promoters of this view.

I'm moaning waaaaaaay to much I know, but this the result of a particularly unpleasant enounter with the most repulsive self proclaimed feminist that I had a few days ago.

Reply 304

Wangers

If this was an underage guy, nothing would be said...I think getting him to sign the sex offenders register, or indeed a charge for even statutory rape is harsh, considering he is a law student - this could quite probably obliterate career prospects.

Reply 305

mart2306

EDIT

Is ignorance an excuse under the law?

He's not being treated as badly as he could be. Which presumably is because the court recognises he believed she was 16.
But still doesn't excuse the fact that a 19 year old male had sex with a 12 year old girl.

Reply 306

mart2306

Wangers

So he should get off because he is a law student? That it will damage his career?
Darn, how come other people never get away with using those excuses?

I'm amused that people seem to want a society where a court can look the other way for a good reason or where someone lied in the first place.
Amused and a little sad.

Reply 307

S.R

mart2306

Basically yes.

She lied about her age - isn't the first girl to do that. Isn't the first guy to get caught out having sex with a minor who lied about age. Why treat him differently than others have been over the decades?
What makes his case special?

It's wrong that's why. He is a perfectly law abiding citizen who was duped into breaking the law. That is not fair. How would you feel if it was you?

Reply 308

S.R

mart2306

Shame I don't know who you are because if I did and saw you in the news faced with the same charge i would laugh so hard at the irony.

Reply 309

S.R

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1311707_man_sentenced_for_sexually_exploiting_girl

If this isn't media vilification I dunno what is. Not one mention of the fact that she lied about her age. just that "he was a predator who got her off facebook and abused her"

Reply 310

Angela_Beth

As it sounds as if the girl was a willing participant, I feel pretty bad for the guy. She should feel horribly guilty.

Reply 311

S.R

werd123

a) It's only 6 months, i'm sure he'll survive.
b) Yes it's difficult and theres no way he would have known, but you can't start saying "Oh it's OK cos she said she was old enough". Ultimately, it doesn't matter, as the oldest person should have a degree of responsibility here, and that also leads to a situation where paedophiles can stand up in court and say "Well I thought she was over 16 so it's OK, right?" and it would be legally acceptable. In essence, however unfortunate it is for this guy, it has to remain as it is.

Yeah but she admitted lying.

Reply 312

mart2306

S.R

Shame I don't know who you are because if I did and saw you in the news faced with the same charge i would laugh so hard at the irony.

Seeing as I'm happily married and I prefer older women, be very hard to find an under 16 girl posing as age 39+.
My wife may be able to pull off posing as a teenager, she still looks young at age 39. Likely she will keep her young looks for a few years yet.

Something to be said for older women, they know what to do and how to do it.

And having been a youth leader, I stick to the lessons learnt about what to do around young people. Including allowing no hint of any sexual problem to crop up without major backup in the room. Such as 2 adults talking to a teenage girl, ideally two female adults or one male one female.
More than one colleague has been accused over the years of sexual offences, not one in my old groups has ever been charged.
Rig the evidence and witnesses to back yourself up and its hard for a teenager to look anything but annoying to the police and CPS.
Really good if there is CCTV available showing you not getting anywhere near.....

Reply 313

S.R

Ministerdonut

To be honest it frightens me to death, not just the date of birth thing,but what if a legal age girl gives consent to sex while drunk ,then changes her mind in the morning? perhaps due to having a boyfriend being married,being mental etc etc. So many men including myself have had at least one one night stand.You just need to meet the wrong girl and your life may well be over as you know it.

It seems girls have it all stacked in their favour and I think at some point a girl will need to contact the police and say she is consenting to have sex with you, beforehand. Makes me think for quick non commital sex escorts are the only way to go.

This exactly. i dont understand those fools in this thread saying"he got his just desserts" when it could happen to anyone, and things are getting quite sexist nowadays seeing as only the woman's word counts in these drunk "rape" cases. If she's a evil bitch she could just lie easily.

Reply 314

mart2306

S.R

And we can't even say the media are lying.
Its just using emotive words to describe what happened.

Change the words around again to be unemotive and it wouldn't be news, merely a court case.

What the media say and what really happened can be some very different words saying the same basic info. 'Teenager has sex with girl who claimed to be 16' isn't very emotive. 'Adult who met pre-teen girl from the internet for sex' rings a lot of bells.

Reply 315

S.R

mart2306

Well your age explains your attitude...

can't you see that because of the extra strict law on things pertaining adult-child relationships, you have to take all these extra precautions just to do your job. Which is probably necessary I guess what with all the real paedos around. But can you also see that from what you have said that children do make false accusations.

All i'm saying is that it's common sense that the guy isn't a criminal but has just been caught out by some legal technicality. I hate it when people follow the exact letter of the law as if it's some force of nature. The judge should of used his brain rather than rely on some rigid lawbook.

Reply 316

mart2306

S.R

It's wrong that's why. He is a perfectly law abiding citizen who was duped into breaking the law. That is not fair. How would you feel if it was you?

A law abiding citizen who had sex with a 12 year old.

How would you feel if it was your daughter having sex at age 12 with a 19 year old male? Happy for the pair of them?

As for fair? He is being treated under the law like any other adult having sex with a 12 year old.
His light punishment likely reflects the court agreeing that she shouldn't have lied but he was the sole adult.
He didn't have to have sex, he chose to have it.
He was the only one under law able to choose to have it.

You or I can be duped into breaking the law. Does being duped mean no crime has been committed?
Hey, next time you go abroad, if someone asks you to take their bag back home with you and they will pick it up later - and customs stop you and find you are carrying £100k in drugs - will you claim to be duped and therefore should be let off?

We are responsible for our actions. Might get people to agree diminished responsibility through stupidity, being duped or whatever. But doesn't mean the actions didn't happen.

Reply 317

mart2306

S.R

May be common sense to you. Not common sense to me. Or my generation. We grew up when laws protecting people became necessary.
Yes, the law is strict. Has to be to protect both the kids and the adults. More than a few adults have taken advantage over the years - should they be let off? Hard and fast rule, a 12 year old cannot consent to sex in this country. No matter what you or I think, the guy had sex.

Yes, children can make false or misleading accusations. Which is why methods are used to protect all concerned. Including other witnesses, cctv etc. Protecting all.

Is the judge allowed to use his brain rather than some rigid lawbook? Then why would he still be a judge? Judge of what?
The law exists, whether you or I or the judge like it. Judge can affect sentence by what is presented, but would it be justice if he let the guy off? As it is the guy avoids prison, for what its worth.

Reply 318

S.R

mart2306

A law abiding citizen who had sex with a 12 year old.

How would you feel if it was your daughter having sex at age 12 with a 19 year old male? Happy for the pair of them?

Tbh if she admitted to lying I wouldn't press charges. It would just be punitive for me to do so.

mart2306

As for fair? He is being treated under the law like any other adult having sex with a 12 year old.

Everyone receiving the same punishment does not make it the correct punishment.

mart2306

His light punishment likely reflects the court agreeing that she shouldn't have lied but he was the sole adult.

I am saying if he absolutely must be punished by the law then he should not have had to sign the register or at least not for that long. maybe a year ( he can take a gap year while waiting for it to expire) but not seven.

mart2306

He didn't have to have sex, he chose to have it.
He was the only one under law able to choose to have it.

According to the law, if your over 16 you got a brain and can choose, but if you're a day under 16 you got no brain and can't choose. it's a different age in other countries, the government can lower or raise the limit etc. All this points to the fact that the limit is totally arbitrary and the girl's ability to succesfully fool the man should be taken into account as well instead of just automatically using the arbitrary cut off point to assume she cant choose. People mature at different rates. I'm not saying "if the 12 year old is mature enough in the mind its totally ok to have sex with her, i'm saying "if the 12 year old is mature enough in the mind she has the ability to know what she is doing by fooling the man is wrong and can accept responsibility (in this particular case).

mart2306

You or I can be duped into breaking the law. Does being duped mean no crime has been committed?
Hey, next time you go abroad, if someone asks you to take their bag back home with you and they will pick it up later - and customs stop you and find you are carrying £100k in drugs - will you claim to be duped and therefore should be let off?

if you just took the bag without checking you would be stupid and it would be your fault for carelessly letting drugs into the country. But if say it was a relative who you thought was trustworthy, you even regardless checked the bag to make sure there was nothing that would get you in trouble at customs ( maybe you thought your uncle was trying to smuggle in a bit of rum or cigarettes without paying tax, nothing serious) but the drugs were so well hidden you would need to take the bag apart and comb every piece of it for traces of drugs, then that is not your fault. And if the uncle then confessed to doing all this you should not have to spend many years in prison for drug smuggling, as any intelligent human would have been fooled. So unless He just took her word for it and never asked for any proof whatsoever ( this is probably the case) then he should be punished. so In hindsight yes but I still think it could be even less harsh of a punishment. But if an extreme case say a 12 year old faked a college ID, got friends to lie, even went to meet the parents and they unscrupulously kept it quiet (yes there are parents like that out there) really planned it out, then the man who falls for this shouldn't be punished. There should be a reasonable level of age inquiry before the person should have to take sole responsibility. So you see what i mean here when I say the law should be flexible on these things? imagine 3 levels of punishment, full punishment for the Gary Glitter type full on paedos, halfway punishment for the guy we are talking about, and tiny to no punishment for the above extreme example. So if I was the judge I would give the guy 1 year on the register and the same suspended sentence. To me 7 years is a bit too far into the full punishment category. if the girl faked IDs then I wouldn't even punish.

mart2306

We are responsible for our actions. Might get people to agree diminished responsibility through stupidity, being duped or whatever. But doesn't mean the actions didn't happen.

True, we are but as anyone can be duped with sufficient cunning the law must accept that sometimes someone else is virtually "pulling the strings" and the actual perpetrator isn't really responsible.

Reply 319

mart2306

S.R

Everyone receiving the same punishment does not make it the correct punishment.
.

Agreed, it doesn't make it the correct punishment. It does make it a fair punishment.
Fair as in applied equally.

There have been people on the sex offenders register a lot longer than him. Been people sentenced to prison for a couple of years or more.
He has got off lightly - 7 years is still less than 10 or 15.

Not that it would matter too much - with this conviction a lot of jobs are now out of his reach regardless of SOR timescale.

In a lot of places people are offered jobs subject to references. Can include CRB check.
So no jobs involving contact with kids or vulnerable adults. So education and health are out of the way for careers. As is probably law and government.
Oh, and most charity work too.

If he feels the sentence is unjust he could appeal. Maybe things could be reduced. Maybe increased if another judge thinks this one was too lenient.
But thats up to the guy and his lawyer.