Is communism really bad? Watch

Lord Hysteria
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#301
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#301
(Original post by Aeolus)
Please don't use that original sin bull****. It is Lord Hysteria feacal matter and I have debunked the comparison at least wice. : It is sensationalist and theatrical, and could be applied to the opposite scenario. That those who are not exceptionally wealthy via the foreceful distribution have to live in original sin :blah:

Trust me such a discussion is not productive at all. The real issue at hand is far more interesting. Could you really be comfortable with such a fundamental flaw in the building blocks of the society you advocate? It would, if anything open it up to exceptional criticism and unrest, especially given the polarising inequality such a system produces.
Where and when? :confused: :confused:

You avoided responding to me on that, and the other time you brought-up monopolies (where I also whipped your backside ).
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Aeolus
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#302
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#302
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
Where and when? :confused: :confused:

You avoided responding to me on that, and the other time you brought-up monopolies (where I also whipped your backside ).

No, you repeatedly invoked a perfect market fallacy and then decried others for doing the same thing when replying to your rambling arguments. I did not avoid replying to you, in fact I repeated my refutation of the analogy twice which went ignored, before.. like the other capable users attempting to 'debate' your points.. I just stopped, bemused at how wrong you always are yet how right you insist on being... A reputation well earned on your part.

But im not interested on taking this any further. Discussions with you rarely go anywhere productive.
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Lord Hysteria
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#303
(Original post by Aeolus)
No, you repeatedly invoked a perfect market fallacy and then decried others for doing the same thing when replying to your rambling arguments. I did not avoid replying to you, in fact I repeated my refutation of the analogy twice which went ignored, before.. like the other capable users attempting to 'debate' your points.. I just stopped, bemused at how wrong you always are yet how right you insist on being... A reputation well earned on your part.

But im not interested on taking this any further. Discussions with you rarely go anywhere productive.
I'll give you the credit that you have refined my arguments. I have spoken about you to various TSRians (IRL and otherwise), and have felt myself improve. Casing point would be when I realised the flaw in describing laissez-faire Capitalism as a kind of democratic system, where one votes for a good/service. It's also thanks to you that my arguments for private property have become much better. You see I rather the dialectic!

But I would love to debate (by "debate" I mean actual arguments and not ad homs and so forth) the vicarious redemption point again, private property, and indeed monopolies! I'm willing to have a completely mature & serious discussion on these points ... and perhaps even religion and theism (since I understand that your views on that has changed?).
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Aeolus
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#304
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#304
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
I'll give you the credit that you have refined my arguments. I have spoken about you to various TSRians (IRL and otherwise), and have felt myself improve. Casing point would be when I realised the flaw in describing laissez-faire Capitalism as a kind of democratic system, where one votes for a good/service. It's also thanks to you that my arguments for private property have become much better. You see I rather the dialectic!

But I would love to debate (by "debate" I mean actual arguments and not ad homs and so forth) the vicarious redemption point again, private property, and indeed monopolies! I'm willing to have a completely mature & serious discussion on these points ... and perhaps even religion and theism (since I understand that your views on that has changed?).

Well, this is all well and good being more open minded a few months after the initial exchange. However, this is not at all what you are like during a discussion. Hence the reason myself, and others, become so frustrated and it inevitably descends into ad hom.

But then again that is probably due to the impersonal back and forth of this forum and I have been guilty of it myself a number of times.
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Planar
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(Original post by Oswy)
There's a great little book by a very famous philosopher called G.A. Cohen called Why Not Socialism? (Princeton University Press, 2009).

In the book Cohen uses a simple example of a camping trip among friends to show how humans can and do think 'communistically' in the right contexts and that it can easily enhance their conditions and social life.

If I was to concede anything it would be that communism's problems are to do with political organisation and power not to do with economic and social arrangements.

Who wouldn't want to live in a society where everyone's basic needs are satisfied and in an atmosphere of mutual support and cooperation?
I know I'm digging up an old post, but anyway.
That occurred to me as well, notably seeing that in a family, a similar thing happens. It's funny when you put it in conjunction with Thatcher's old saying:
"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families." Lots of little communes.

edit: forgot a "
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Oswy
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#306
(Original post by Planar)
I know I'm digging up an old post, but anyway.
That occurred to me as well, notably seeing that in a family, a similar thing happens. It's funny when you put it in conjunction with Thatcher's old saying:
"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families." Lots of little communes.

edit: forgot a "
And, of course, the 'family' idea is pretty elastic. We are, ultimately, all related to each other and could, technically, be characterised (if at a stretch) as all in the the very same family
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lumberjack77
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#307
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#307
40 million killed during peace times, so YES.
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callum9999
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#308
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#308
(Original post by lumberjack77)
40 million killed during peace times, so YES.
Murder isn't exclusive to communism.

In my view, communism is the perfect system. However, human nature will always result in people either not pulling their weight, or seeking power over others, making it impossible to work on a large scale.

It would probably work on small communes with like-minded people though (people generally dismissed as crazy hippies I imagine).
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Theconomist
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#309
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#309
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes definitely.
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Emaemmaemily
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#310
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#310
(Original post by callum9999)
Murder isn't exclusive to communism.

In my view, communism is the perfect system. However, human nature will always result in people either not pulling their weight, or seeking power over others, making it impossible to work on a large scale.

It would probably work on small communes with like-minded people though (people generally dismissed as crazy hippies I imagine).
"Human nature" isn't a given though.
A lot of people would argue that humans only behave this was becaue the current and past systems have influenced them in such a way. If a child was brought up to believe in a completely difference system and values, they wouldn't be selfish!
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chrislpp
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#311
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#311
Communism and Capitalism are two slightly different ways of ****ing the working man over.
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callum9999
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(Original post by Emaemmaemily)
"Human nature" isn't a given though.
A lot of people would argue that humans only behave this was becaue the current and past systems have influenced them in such a way. If a child was brought up to believe in a completely difference system and values, they wouldn't be selfish!
True but hardly any children are bought up like that and it shows no signs of changing - only getting worse.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I can't see there ever being peace, let alone a communist way of life, on this planet.
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Emaemmaemily
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(Original post by callum9999)
True but hardly any children are bought up like that and it shows no signs of changing - only getting worse.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I can't see there ever being peace, let alone a communist way of life, on this planet.
Well maybe it is pessimism. We can't know for sure what will happen.
But just the fact that a lot of people embrace these kinds of thoughts (when before, no one would have) shows that there's hope.
All I know is it's possible... And while that fact remains, we shouldn't just dismiss it as something that will never happen. We should alwyas try to make our world better
Fingers crossed lol
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callum9999
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(Original post by Emaemmaemily)
Well maybe it is pessimism. We can't know for sure what will happen.
But just the fact that a lot of people embrace these kinds of thoughts (when before, no one would have) shows that there's hope.
All I know is it's possible... And while that fact remains, we shouldn't just dismiss it as something that will never happen. We should alwyas try to make our world better
Fingers crossed lol
Also true. It's a great opinion to hold, but I struggle to see past the enormous amounts of evil in this world.
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tigermoth99
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#315
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#315
I got 99 problems but communism ain't one
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humanrights
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#316
(Original post by Lewis :D)
I mean, the idea looks really good, but it isn't viable at all.
People naturally take charge, therefore a higher class is automatically formed.
Plus my geography teacher said communists knew how to look after their own.


its the most evil idea in history that caused over 150 million deaths in the 20th century alone.
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turn and fall
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#317
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(Original post by Oswy)
There's a great little book by a very famous philosopher called G.A. Cohen called Why Not Socialism? (Princeton University Press, 2009).

In the book Cohen uses a simple example of a camping trip among friends to show how humans can and do think 'communistically' in the right contexts and that it can easily enhance their conditions and social life.

If I was to concede anything it would be that communism's problems are to do with political organisation and power not to do with economic and social arrangements.

Who wouldn't want to live in a society where everyone's basic needs are satisfied and in an atmosphere of mutual support and cooperation?
Ooooo yes that is probably only because it is the SELF INTEREST of those individuals to cooperate. That is how firms work.

It is capitalism at its dynamic best.

The problem of socialism is the economic problem. Without a pricing system people cannot make effecient decisions with regard to production and consumption. And thus making everybody less affluent.
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Emaemmaemily
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#318
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(Original post by humanrights)
its the most evil idea in history that caused over 150 million deaths in the 20th century alone.
The idea of communism caused no deaths at all.
People who took advantage of other people, and pretended to be trying to put communism into action (while actually they were keeping the government and rule, etc) are the ones that caused those deaths.
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wildrover
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#319
All you neeed to do is look at the disaster of the communist russia.
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Brandmon
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(Original post by wildrover)
All you neeed to do is look at the disaster of the communist russia.
Rather, the disaster of communist russia lead it to being a superpower. The disaster or the fall of communist russia lead to the Russian mafia, for starters. Food for thought right there. :rolleyes:
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