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    (Original post by hallamrulez)
    I think the gap is absolutely massive anywhere you go though that's the thing. Oxbridge just have this legendary status that I think people should be more sceptical of instead of just lapping up their supposed superiority over the rest of British universities
    Sorry Beg to differ.


    You can say that if you've actually sampled 4 different unis - RGs and what not and also been for interviews at Oxford and in active communication with them, yes I'VE done that.

    And I can confirm that the gap is massive, specifically between Oxbridge and Bham / Sussex / Soton
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    (Original post by Tuerin)
    I comprehended what you said, but I question the sense of it. It would save a lot of time and space on this thread if, instead of defining the RG1/RG2 status of every RG university in your eyes, you listed the RG universities in these two suspect categories. I'll be going to Bristol soon.
    This is just a cursory list and done specially at your request so there maybe some institutions missing. Bristol is in RG1 though I'd say a little overrated.

    I remove Oxbridge because they are far superior to all in RG whether 1 or 2.

    RG1:

    ICL
    UCL
    LSE
    KCL
    Edinburgh
    Bristol
    Durham
    Possibly Exeter

    RG2:

    All the rest

    (Zenomorph's note: some of the 94A are better than RG2)

    Happy?
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    I think that they serve reasonably similar purposes in terms of getting you through the door.

    Once you're in there it's all you.

    If you read my initial post I didn't cast a solid opinion as to which is 'better'. Generally I don't think you can draw a real distinction.

    What I will say is that I graduated with a 1st from one of the unis you mentioned. I interviewed for a career along with people with Oxbridge 1sts and 2:1s.

    ... It didn't make a difference where any of us were from IMO.


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    That depends which door we are talking about ?

    The door to your local Iceland's Management trainee programme then sure but the door to Morgan Stanley's MTP - NO.

    So quality of employment does matter
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    That depends which door we are talking about ?

    The door to your local Iceland's Management trainee programme then sure but the door to Morgan Stanley's MTP - NO.

    So quality of employment does matter
    Now you're being silly. I think Lexis is a trainee solicitor, or will be after finishing the LPC, but in any case to claim that you are somehow restricted to working at Iceland after graduating from a perfectly good university is a ridiculous statement. Your claim that Oxbridge is 'better' than other universities is probably correct but you are massively over-egging the pudding and making yourself look foolish in the process. Notice how nobody who has actually attended either Oxford or Cambridge is making such outrageous claims. You are (according to your other posts) at Sussex.

    Your list of RG1 / RG2 is a total nonsense, on what basis is Warwick a sub-par university, for example?
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    (Original post by Forum User)
    Now you're being silly. I think Lexis is a trainee solicitor, or will be after finishing the LPC, but in any case to claim that you are somehow restricted to working at Iceland after graduating from a perfectly good university is a ridiculous statement. Your claim that Oxbridge is 'better' than other universities is probably correct but you are massively over-egging the pudding and making yourself look foolish in the process.

    Your list of RG1 / RG2 is a total nonsense, on what basis is Warwick a sub-par university, for example?
    I agree with this. It might make a difference in some sectors and organisations, but I doubt it does so to the extent that other unis are excluded.

    They recruit the individual, not the university.


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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    More snobbery I'm afraid Derrick. I'm at an RG, and most of the lectures I've been taught by in First Year are Oxbridge/LSE educated. One lady has a very highly rated PHD from LSE. There not mugs and have been taught by the best.
    That doesn't mean they are any good, you don't really think the best Oxbridge academics aim for RG2 institutions o you ?

    Try Oxbridge / Harvard/ Yale / Princeton - you forget that a good Oxbridge degree opens doors world wide.

    The same most definitely cannot be said of say a 1st from Leeds.
    And surely you are being a little hypocritical ? You dislike the snobbery from Oxbridge or RG1 yet you gladly push the term RG to differentiate your self from non-RG institutions.


    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Many people at these Russell's have the same A Level grades as Oxbridgers and are just as smart. Acceptance to Oxbridge doesn't define ones existence and condemn those not chosen to a lifetime of being below.
    No, not if the overall mean was taken then non Oxb A level grades are far behind. This only stands to reason as there are limited number of A*A*A* to go around and most of them will end up at Oxb.

    (Original post by Eboracum)
    Oxford/Cambridge are better universities than those you've mentioned. But I'm arguing a First from one of them is just as good if not better than a 2:1 from Oxbridge. As they are still very good universities, they are not 'lousy' in any way.

    There is simply no such thing as 'RG2'. It is heightened snobbery.
    Again that depends - many would say agree that there are universities
    ' lousier ' than Oxb or the RG1

    There's an RG2 in the sense that anyone might want it to be one ( just look at the tables and a clear demarcation is revealed between RG1 and 2 )

    (Original post by Eboracum)

    The reality is - 1) you haven't graduated from a London top 3 university. I am sure the London 3 do not teach their graduates to come on student forums ****ging off other universities. 2) You are a member of the Oxford 2012 applicants page.

    I'd get yourself into a Russell, work really hard, and re-evaluate if I was you. Anyone can come on here and say anything. I could say I have a First from Harvard and I was taught by Niall Ferguson and have a PHD from Yale. But what would be the point? You are only lying to yourself you know?
    O yeah right and you're a mind reader are you, in any case if I was starting over again with my AAA I'd be damned if I were to end up in an RG 2.

    Whereas the whole problem with the RG2 is that they are trying to forcefeed the fake notion that they are somehow just a ' tad ' worse than Oxb down the throats of innocents 18 yo's - that I object to.

    And that is why I created the RG2.
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    (Original post by Forum User)
    Now you're being silly. I think Lexis is a trainee solicitor, or will be after finishing the LPC, but in any case to claim that you are somehow restricted to working at Iceland after graduating from a perfectly good university is a ridiculous statement. Your claim that Oxbridge is 'better' than other universities is probably correct but you are massively over-egging the pudding and making yourself look foolish in the process. Notice how nobody who has actually attended either Oxford or Cambridge is making such outrageous claims. You are (according to your other posts) at Sussex.

    Your list of RG1 / RG2 is a total nonsense, on what basis is Warwick a sub-par university, for example?

    FACT: no non RG1 university is a target for MS. end of, lexis or not whatever the hell that is.

    What outrageous claims ?

    Your fearful overeaction is a total nonsense, and sounds like someone who realises that his overinflated opinion of his university has been dramatically destroyed.

    I did say ' cursory ' , do you not understand what that means ?

    In that light where Warwick stand is moot to me, so you place it where you want.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    Your fearful overeaction is a total nonsense, and sounds like someone who realises that his overinflated opinion of his university has been dramatically destroyed.
    I did Maths at Cambridge. I am now at BPP doing a part-time law degree. I assure you that I don't have an overinflated opinion of either university I have attended.

    The only one with a 'fearful overreaction' in this thread is you, for a reason which escapes me since you are not at any of Oxbridge, 'RG1', or 'RG2'.
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    (Original post by Forum User)
    I did Maths at Cambridge. I am now at BPP doing a part-time law degree. I assure you that I don't have an overinflated opinion of either university I have attended.

    The only one with a 'fearful overreaction' in this thread is you, for a reason which escapes me since you are not at any of Oxbridge, 'RG1', or 'RG2'.
    I graduated from RG1 and now doing a short course at Sussex, is that ok for you ?

    So did you graduate Cantab or not ? and if so, why are you arguing with me ? Surely we are in agreement
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    I graduated from RG1 and now doing a short course at Sussex, is that ok for you ?

    So did you graduate Cantab or not ? and if so, why are you arguing with me ? Surely we are in agreement
    I sense you have difficulty with comprehension.


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    (Original post by Future_Dr)
    IMO A 2.1 at Oxbridge shows that the candidate has worked very hard in their previously academic life to have gained a place there.
    What about people who got equal grades but didn't apply for Oxbridge? I'm one of them. Got the same grades as expected for the same degree at oxbridge but got no support or info about it. In fact during my work experience insight I met a girl doing the same course at Cambridge but with lower grades. I ended up going to an average Russell group uni.
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    (Original post by Eboracum)
    More snobbery I'm afraid Derrick. I'm at an RG, and most of the lectures I've been taught by in First Year are Oxbridge/LSE educated. One lady has a very highly rated PHD from LSE. There not mugs and have been taught by the best.

    Case of terminology. I would agree a Cambridge degree is more prestigious but I would disagree it is much more prestigious. Particularly when comparing a 2:1 from Cam against a First from a Top 10 Russell.

    I'd also disagree on the hardness. There is this snobbery from Oxbridge students (a very minor few - most are lovely) that people at all other unis are idiots and that they'd be guaranteed a First at say, a top 20 Russell. Not the case. To get a First at any Russell is really difficult. Many people at these Russell's have the same A Level grades as Oxbridgers and are just as smart. Acceptance to Oxbridge doesn't define ones existence and condemn those not chosen to a lifetime of being below.

    I think sole accounts in these debates aren't usually that helpful. Anyone can dig up a case of somebodies uncle, someone's friend, this person, or that person. I've known Firsts from Oxford unemployed since last Summer and various other cases.

    Lot of snobbery in your post. A shame as you seem to really know your stuff.
    I notice that you study politics rather than a science subject, so it's likely that your experience will be different than Derrick's. In arts subjects such as politics it's generally the case that it's rather easy to get a 2.1 but very hard to get a first wherever you go as it's marked on a narrow scale, and in this case there is going to be much less of a difference in difficulty between arts courses between Oxbridge and the rest. However Derrick's experience is with maths, where there is a very large difference in difficulty between Oxbridge and the rest. What Derrick is saying about the difference in difficulty isn't snobbery, it's simply the truth, Cambridge's papers are far harder than elsewhere. He said nothing about the quality of students at either institution.

    I myself put my money where my mouth was, I was struggling to hit the 2.1 mark so transferred to another RG uni (UCL) as I was convinced the course would be less demanding and I could get a much better grade. This turned out to be the case, and I walked away with a very high first (over 80%). This isn't snobbery, but recognising that different courses have markedly different differences in difficulty, and it may well be worth a prospective students while to go somewhere 'less prestigious' and get a better class of degree.

    Zenomorph however is just a troll who is spouting nonsense and should be ignored.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    I graduated from RG1 and now doing a short course at Sussex, is that ok for you ?

    So if did you graduated Cantab or not ? and if so, why are you arguing with me ? Surely we are in agreement
    Yes, I graduated in 2000.

    I agree that Oxbridge is better than other universities (at least for the vast majority of courses). I do not agree that doors are necessarily closed to you if you don't attend a top university (by which I mean, one that you consider to be RG1+). One of the most recent tenants at Fountain Court (top commercial Barristers chambers and thus one of the most competitive jobs there is) did his undergraduate degree at Hull.

    If you were trying to make a point only about Investment Banking then I don't know enough to comment, but the fact that you contrasted working at Morgan Stanley with working at Iceland seemed to suggest that you were making a point about all competitive jobs.
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    I sense you have difficulty with comprehension.


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    Everyone knows law is an extremely prestige conscious profession, why would someone with Maths @ cantab do law @ BPP ? That'd be like shooting yourself after you win the lottery.

    No, no I think this guy sounds more like an RG 2 person to me

    Either that or he did not very well @ Cantab. Also just because one graduates from Cantab doesn't mean he is the cat's whiskers - there always bad eggs, many of them end up in RG2 places.

    Believe me I've had the misfortune of attending their ' lectures'
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    (Original post by Nichrome)
    Zenomorph however is just a troll who is spouting nonsense and should be ignored.
    Do you always give so much attention to people who you'd like to ignore ?

    Sounds like you are the troller now.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    Either that or he did not very well @ Cantab.
    You're right, I got a 2:2 after failing, due to personal reasons, to hand in a computer project worth 20% of the final grade. I'm not sure how that has anything to do with the current discussion, though, since we were talking about the prospects of non-Oxbridge degrees.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    Everyone knows law is an extremely prestige conscious profession, why would someone with Maths @ cantab do law @ BPP ? That'd be like shooting yourself after you win the lottery.

    No, no I think this guy sounds more like an RG 2 person to me

    Either that or he did not very well @ Cantab. Also just because one graduates from Cantab doesn't mean he is the cat's whiskers - there always bad eggs, many of them end up in RG2 places.

    Believe me I've had the misfortune of attending their ' lectures'
    I will let Forum User answer the assumptions you make here; I suspect you are very wrong though.

    BPP is a perfectly good place to do PT legal studies as a career changer. If FU is doing a GDL, BPTC or LPC, then they wouldn't realistically think too hard about going anywhere else.

    And I am the 'lexis' FU referred to earlier.


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    (Original post by Forum User)
    Yes, I graduated in 2000.

    I agree that Oxbridge is better than other universities (at least for the vast majority of courses). I do not agree that doors are necessarily closed to you if you don't attend a top university (by which I mean, one that you consider to be RG1+). One of the most recent tenants at Fountain Court (top commercial Barristers chambers and thus one of the most competitive jobs there is) did his undergraduate degree at Hull.

    If you were trying to make a point only about Investment Banking then I don't know enough to comment, but the fact that you contrasted working at Morgan Stanley with working at Iceland seemed to suggest that you were making a point about all competitive jobs.

    Yes granted there will always be exceptions but how are we to know if this chap was not also a former All Black or played for England in union.

    I noticed that usually these cases involve something unique about the individual if he did not attend an RG1.

    My point about Iceland and MS is that other things being equal, very few non RG1 graduates will have succeeded in getting into the Grad scheme. of course there are exceptions as said before due to personal achievements (but these would have to be very high - like playing for England rugby team and so on).

    Whereas the MTP @ Iceland would be open to all who attain a 2.1 and above.

    So yes, being at a top 30 uni will not close doors for you but at the top end of professions like IB, accountancy and law ( I would suppose) you would be at a disadvantage compared to one of the better places.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    Everyone knows law is an extremely prestige conscious profession, why would someone with Maths @ cantab do law @ BPP ? That'd be like shooting yourself after you win the lottery.

    No, no I think this guy sounds more like an RG 2 person to me

    Either that or he did not very well @ Cantab. Also just because one graduates from Cantab doesn't mean he is the cat's whiskers - there always bad eggs, many of them end up in RG2 places.

    Believe me I've had the misfortune of attending their ' lectures'
    What on earth are you talking about?

    To become a solicitor you need to do an LPC, which is a vocational course, not academic. BPP (and places like Kaplan, College of Law etc.) are the primary providers of such courses. BPP do all sorts of professional exams - for instance, they're the only provider of Actuarial education in the UK.

    If it's not the LPC then it might be a law conversion course - which again has to have a vocational focus as its shorter than a normal law degree. Why on earth would you assume he didn't do well?

    I have friends (from maths) who have gone on to become IP lawyers and are earning a heck of a lot more than me - incidentally, they got a first from Imperial their undergrad, a first from Oxford doing their finance masters and then did their LPC at BPP. Not once during her course did she moan about BPP's prestige - in fact, she was really impressed with BPP, as am I generally for their Actuarial tuition.

    Honestly, I've met very very few people from Oxbridge / Imperial / (insert good university here) who bang on about prestige, it really does seem to be those with some sort of chip on their shoulder :confused:

    EDIT: Didn't see his later post, but still don't think that disproves my point
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    (Original post by shamika)
    What on earth are you talking about?

    To become a solicitor you need to do an LPC, which is a vocational course, not academic. BPP (and places like Kaplan, College of Law etc.) are the primary providers of such courses. BPP do all sorts of professional exams - for instance, they're the only provider of Actuarial education in the UK.

    If it's not the LPC then it might be a law conversion course - which again has to have a vocational focus as its shorter than a normal law degree. Why on earth would you assume he didn't do well?

    I have friends (from maths) who have gone on to become IP lawyers and are earning a heck of a lot more than me - incidentally, they got a first from Imperial their undergrad, a first from Oxford doing their finance masters and then did their LPC at BPP. Not once during her course did she moan about BPP's prestige - in fact, she was really impressed with BPP, as am I generally for their Actuarial tuition.

    Honestly, I've met very very few people from Oxbridge / Imperial / (insert good university here) who bang on about prestige, it really does seem to be those with some sort of chip on their shoulder :confused:
    I think FU is a trainee barrister, don't they get taught directly by the barrister's association ?
 
 
 
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