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    (Original post by sky280)
    This is like RE all over again. In my opinion abortion shouldn't be allowed unless having the baby could put the mother's life in danger because even if the mother doesn't want the baby for whatever reasons the baby could be taken out of the womb early and it could still survive. A couple who can't conceive or a gay couple could adopt the baby. So instead of wasting a new life that baby could bring joy and happiness to a different family.
    Why can't they just adopt all the kids already in care then?

    It's not as simple as you're making it sound.
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    yes, they could just adopt the kids already in care but my point is that instead of aborting the child and wasting a life, if you let the baby live, that kid could possibly grow up and find the cure for cancer, invent something that's life changing or just make the world a better place.
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    (Original post by sky280)
    yes, they could just adopt the kids already in care but my point is that instead of aborting the child and wasting a life, if you let the baby live, that kid could possibly grow up and find the cure for cancer, invent something that's life changing or just make the world a better place.
    They could also go on to suffer abuse or neglect in care, and go on to become a deliquent member of society who commits crimes and harms others.

    What if's have no place here, there are many hypothetical possibilities we could mention but focusing purely on the unlikely positive ones show you haven't really thought this through.
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    It upsets me that this question is even asked :cry:
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    I never understand why it's made into a feminist issue. Surely it makes sense for a human to have rights, even if that human is unborn?

    I always think that people on TSR however are in favour of abortion being legal because they associate anti-abortion with religious belief, as opposed to them having given the issue any critical thought
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    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    There are already loads of children in care homes making abortion illegal would just produce more unwanted children, I would rather be aborted than grow up in care with no family, it's not right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body, it wouldn't stop abortion it would just mean people started making money from dangerous ones again.
    I'm not saying abortion should be illegal. It still should be allowed but the reasons for why the mother is aborting the child should be considered and thought about in depth. I do agree that some care homes might not be the best places to grow up in and more work should be done to make them better and safe but allowing someone to live seems like a better option to me than ending a life. By ending a life you end a lot of possibilities with it.
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    No, I don't think it should be. I'm intrigued as to why you think it right to impose your morals on every other woman. If abortion is illegal, those who need an abortion could potentially be mentally affected. If legal, those who need an abortion can have one and those who do not need to have one don't have to.
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    No.
    I'm expecting lots of anger heading towards me soon..

    Abortion is the very last resort and I would only really condone it for rape victims or couples who had 'accidents'.

    I do not believe that life is inherently sacred but I believe people should face risks on their own terms and not be endangered by others.
    However a foetus has no memories, no hopes or aspirations and has no idea whether if enjoys its 'life' or not.
    If you choose to end its life before it matures, you will have taken nothing from it because there is nothing to take.

    I think that the foetus becomes, for a lack of a better word, unimportant in the decision for an abortion since you cant harm something that isn't alive.

    It all boils down to what it means to be alive.
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    (Original post by Complex solution)
    No.
    I'm expecting lots of anger heading towards me soon..

    Abortion is the very last resort and I would only really condone it for rape victims or couples who had 'accidents'.

    I do not believe that life is inherently sacred but I believe people should face risks on their own terms and not be endangered by others.
    However a foetus has no memories, no hopes or aspirations and has no idea whether if enjoys its 'life' or not.
    If you choose to end its life before it matures, you will have taken nothing from it because there is nothing to take.

    I think that the foetus becomes, for a lack of a better word, unimportant in the decision for an abortion since you cant harm something that isn't alive.

    It all boils down to what it means to be alive.
    Why are couples who have 'accidents' different to there being an 'accident' in a friends with benefits style situation, or a one night stand?
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    Why are couples who have 'accidents' different to there being an 'accident' in a friends with benefits style situation, or a one night stand?
    Sorry, I don't think I was articulate enough when I said that.

    I shouldn't really have included the word 'couples' since I think abortion is okay for any situation in which it was an accident, especially rape.

    I don't think abortion is an excuse to abandon protection though.
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    (Original post by Complex solution)
    Sorry, I don't think I was articulate enough when I said that.

    I shouldn't really have included the word 'couples' since I think abortion is okay for any situation in which it was an accident, except for rape.

    I don't think abortion is an excuse to abandon protection though.
    Wut?
    Did you mean to say that, because it sounds like you think that women who are raped should be forced to have the child.
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    (Original post by Complex solution)
    Sorry, I don't think I was articulate enough when I said that.

    I shouldn't really have included the word 'couples' since I think abortion is okay for any situation in which it was an accident, except for rape.

    I don't think abortion is an excuse to abandon protection though.
    I'm confused, rape victims shouldn't be able to get abortions? Or are you more focusing on 'well, she wasn't taking a pill, but she also didn't choose to have sex'.

    Nah, of course it shouldn't mean abandoning protection, but it should be available to people when needed.
    If someone is having repeated abortions because they're just not using protection they should get a stern talking to by a doctor, possibly referred for counselling and maybe a look into something that doesn't need user input like a coil or the injection.
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    (Original post by Complex solution)
    Sorry, I don't think I was articulate enough when I said that.

    I shouldn't really have included the word 'couples' since I think abortion is okay for any situation in which it was an accident, except for rape.

    I don't think abortion is an excuse to abandon protection though.
    Can I ask, why is rape the exception?
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    I don't know why the hell I wrote "I shouldn't really have included the word 'couples' since I think abortion is okay for any situation in which it was an accident, except for rape.".

    I have no idea what I was thinking for me to write that...I think that's enough TSR for me tonight.


    I'm gonna' edit that comment: I definitely think rape victims need access to abortion, sorry for all this confusion.
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    (Original post by Complex solution)
    I don't know why the hell I wrote "I shouldn't really have included the word 'couples' since I think abortion is okay for any situation in which it was an accident, except for rape.".

    I have no idea what I was thinking for me to write that...I think that's enough TSR for me tonight.


    I'm gonna' edit that comment.

    I definitely think rape victims need access to abortion, sorry for all this confusion.
    Please tell me that's an actual photo of you biggest lolz of the evening right there. And no worries on the mistake we all make accidental typos!
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    (Original post by Messalina)
    Please tell me that's an actual photo of you biggest lolz of the evening right there. And no worries on the mistake we all make accidental typos!
    How many people make typo's though that effectively say
    "rape victims are big whiners"?

    It was an emotional day in the ring when that was taken.
    They forced me to fight a pregnant woman which lead to my complete emotional breakdown as I had a flashback of this thread.
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    (Original post by Complex solution)
    How many people make typo's though that effectively say
    "rape victims are big whiners"?

    It was an emotional day in the ring when that was taken.
    They forced me to fight a pregnant woman which lead to my complete emotional breakdown when I had flashbacks of my mistake on this thread.
    Well in your previous post you'd already said that you thought rape victims should be allowed abortions so I just assumed the second post was badly phrased. I got what you meant, although we may not agree entirely

    Clearly, although what student has such a wrestling career? Focus on your studies or you'll get a third :P
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    (Original post by sky280)
    I'm not saying abortion should be illegal. It still should be allowed but the reasons for why the mother is aborting the child should be considered and thought about in depth. I do agree that some care homes might not be the best places to grow up in and more work should be done to make them better and safe but allowing someone to live seems like a better option to me than ending a life. By ending a life you end a lot of possibilities with it.
    But then who decides which reasons are worthy of abortion? It comes down to what another poster said about punishing women for having sex the foetuses are still the same regardless of the mothers reason for wanting to abort and you'd still end up with a lot of unwanted children. And if abortions were banned in some cases there would have to be more laws put in place to make sure the father took equal responsibility just because the woman carries it it doesn't make it just her problem and then you'd get caught up in people who have been lied to about their partner being on birth control. Or what about if birth control fails it's happened to me twice and I took my pill on time religiously (unfortunately miscarried) would I not be allowed an abortion because it would be for "selfish" reasons? It would be very hard to implement that system, plus you'd get people lying and there would still be unwanted babies born.

    I think the system we have now is good where everyone is entitled to an abortion and if you don't want one for yourself (I personally would avoid it all costs) then you don't have to have one.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    I always think that people on TSR however are in favour of abortion being legal because they associate anti-abortion with religious belief, as opposed to them having given the issue any critical thought
    Perhaps that is a factor. But to me, it also seems possible that they're in favour of abortion being legal, because such a law favours them. Students of this age tend to be sexually active, but not in a position to look after a child. They have a vested interest in abortion being legal, because it's quite conceivable (no pun intended) that some time soon they might find themselves in need of one. Whereas if it were illegal, they're the ones who would have to start being more careful about what they get up to, or end up in a position of difficulty/disrepute should they fail to do so.


    I find it interesting that anti-abortion would be so strongly associated with religious beliefs, because as far as I'm aware, none of the major religions make any comments specifically about termination of a pregnancy. They simply prohibit killing another innocent human being, which is something that any atheist would agree with as well. The issue in contention is essentially deciding what exactly counts as a "human being". But religions don't seem to make a point of specifying this. So why is it that the opinions are so polarised and correlated with religiosity?

    Personally, I think it goes back to vested interests. An impartial person is more likely to err on the side of caution, and say "There is no universal consensus on whether or not a foetus qualifies as an innocent human being, so to be on the safe side, we should not kill it." Whereas a person with a vested interest in abortion being legal is more likely to seek to define "human being" in such a way that it does not include foetuses. For obvious reasons, a person who is religious is less likely to be as involved in casual or temporary sexual relationships than someone who is not religious, and is therefore less likely to find themselves with an unborn child that they are not in a position to look after. The issue of whether or not abortion is legal is less likely to affect them personally, and so when defining what constitutes a "human being", their judgement is less likely to be driven by any vested interest. The reverse will tend to be true for people who are not religious.

    Religion aside, it would be interesting to hear the views of other people who are unlikely to be personally affected by abortion laws e.g. people who have passed the age of childbirth, people who would be perfectly capable and willing to look after a child if they happened to conceive one, people who know they are not able to conceive children naturally, people who practise abstinence from casual relationships for other reasons etc.
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    (Original post by victoriajackson)
    There are already loads of children in care homes making abortion illegal would just produce more unwanted children
    Or would it force people to be more careful about contraception, and sexual activity in general, resulting in fewer unwanted children?

    I would rather be aborted than grow up in care with no family
    Perhaps you would. But someone else who has actually grown up in care and then gone on to live a decent standard of life might value the opportunity to have done so, and disagree.

    it's not right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body
    When it comes to a debate on abortion, the first issue is to determine whether the foetus should be considered as part of "the woman's body", or whether it should be considered to be a body and a life of its own.

    It's not a great argument to say "the woman can do what she wants with her body", because this assumes, without it being established yet, that the foetus is in fact part of "her body". The obvious response from the other side of the debate would be "Well aborting is affecting someone else's body, not just her own".

    it wouldn't stop abortion it would just mean people started making money from dangerous ones again.
    It is true that making abortion illegal will probably, to some extent, drive it underground. But that's true of pretty much anything. If you make something illegal, some people will stop doing it, and some people will simply continue to do it, without the official approval if necessary. In various countries including ours, the same thing happens with things like drugs, guns, prostitution, slavery, FGM, forced marriages... you name it.
 
 
 
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