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    That bakery deserves to go into administration for such hostility.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    That's missing the point. In a legal sense, we don't have 'gay marriage' and 'straight marriage'. We just have marriage, which is now open to couples of the same sex. So the issue here is that by refusing to sell a cake to a gay person which supports his right to marry, they are acting unfairly towards him unless they also refused to sell a cake to a straight person supporting their
    right to (straight) marriage. They have refused to make a product condoning his right to marry, because he would wish to marry another man. If a straight man requested a cake condoning his right to marry, the request would be accepted. They are therefore discriminating against the gay customer.
    If "gay marriage" is a meaningless term*, then the couple should not have asked for "support gay marriage" on their cake. They should have requested a cake saying "support marriage", which I'm sure the bakers would have been fine with. The bakery isn't refusing to make cakes for gay customers, it's refusing to make cakes that support gay marriage for ANY customers.

    *But we all know that most people do think of marriage in terms of "gay" and "straight" (regardless of whether it should or should not happen), so it's really not.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I think belief is far too wide and vague to use a defence in this case. For example, I could believe Irish people are far more likely to get drunk and refuse to serve them despite the fact they are sober when they arrive at my pub. I don't think that is going to persuade a court its OK to refuse service to all Irish people.
    I wasn't referring to it as a defence I was referring to it as a means of prosecution for the hypothetical person who opposed same sex marriage against the hypothetical gay baker refusing to make them a cake saying "gay marriage is wrong"
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    See above. The gay customer wishing to support his right to marriage is being treated unfairly compared to a straight customer wishing to support their right to marriage, unless they would also refuse a cake saying "Hooray for Marriage" or something.
    But again. The customer isn't being refused at all on basis of their beliefs they are being refused on the basis of the product. The characteristics of the customer had nothing to do with why they were refused.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    See above. The gay customer wishing to support his right to marriage is being treated unfairly compared to a straight customer wishing to support their right to marriage, unless they would also refuse a cake saying "Hooray for Marriage" or something.
    Straight people would also be denied from having the same product made though. No discrimination.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Straight people would also be denied from having the same product made though. No discrimination.
    Equal discrimination but still discrimination against those who hold this belief.
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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    Equal discrimination but still discrimination against those who hold this belief.
    Not at all. It's discrimination against the belief, not discrimination against people who hold it. Discrimination against the people who hold it would be I will not sell you anything in my bakery because you are pro gay marriage.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Not at all. It's discrimination against the belief, not discrimination against people who hold it. Discrimination against the people who hold it would be I will not sell you anything in my bakery because you are pro gay marriage.
    Exactly. That's why this 'legal action' makes no sense.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Not at all. It's discrimination against the belief, not discrimination against people who hold it. Discrimination against the people who hold it would be I will not sell you anything in my bakery because you are pro gay marriage.
    We'll see

    But as the Equality commissioner says there is a case to answer I'm confident(ish) I'm right
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Not at all. It's discrimination against the belief, not discrimination against people who hold it. Discrimination against the people who hold it would be I will not sell you anything in my bakery because you are pro gay marriage.
    Great, the bakery could discriminate against all religious people and not sell them cakes.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Great, the bakery could discriminate against all religious people and not sell them cakes.
    Well no that's not what I said. I said bakery's could refuse to make cake for example proclaiming that Jesus of Nazareth died and rose from the dead, but I didn't say that they could discriminate against the people who hold that belief.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Well no that's not what I said. I said bakery's could refuse to make cake for example proclaiming that Jesus of Nazareth died and rose from the dead, but I didn't say that they could discriminate against the people who hold that belief.
    I assume the bakers refuse to make a Jesus cake because they are anti Christian. Or are you suggesting they can't spell or need a very large cake to fit it all on?
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    It's a business - they should be able to refuse service for whatever reason as long as it's transparent.
    If you don't like it, boycott their business. If enough people boycott their business, they will be out of business. Seems simple to me..
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    (Original post by Gjaykay)
    They are a business, and can (and should) refuse service to who ever the damn well please.
    So by that logic they are entitled to turn down black people.


    ON this particular example I'm kind of neutral. But just because you run a private business does not mean you can do what the hell you like when running it, there are laws etc you have to follow. If it wasn't for state intervention we would probably still have hotels that don't accept black people etc. Whilst it is not the only way of making social progress (lot of other stuff is required) the rule fo law can help push things along.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    So by that logic they are entitled to turn down black people.
    They haven't turned anyone down based on their sexual orientation though so how is this a valid comparison?
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    The problem really boils down to a law that, interpreted literally, totally restricts all liberty. Hence said law is always interpreted in the context of 'oppressed groups', whether ethnicity, sexuality, religion, whatever.

    It's pretty easy to expose the horrible inconsistency of this (and of people on this thread adamant that the cake shop were in the wrong). Just imagine an atheist asking a cake shop owned by Muslims to have an image of Prophet Muhammad defecating on it. That scenario will probably short circuit some of the 'stupid' left's minds (i.e. the ones for whom every decision is to be judged a) only on moral grounds b) only their own morals are valid and c) only inconveniences to 'oppressed groups' are immoral)
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    (Original post by Gjaykay)
    The homophobia aside, they should be able to choose what cakes to make themselves.
    They are a business, and can (and should) refuse service to who ever the damn well please.

    They've chosen to be homophobic, so hopefully people will stop buying cakes from there, but they have every right to be homophobes and refuse to bake whatever they want for a customer.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    i hope this bakery refuses to make these disgusting anus cakes:

    http://thedonuthaus.com/wp-content/u...ake-donuts.jpg

    :mob:
    This is the actual cake in question. Supposedly it tastes like ass.

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    This is just a stupid debate, the owners have their beliefs and are well within their rights to decline an order. Suing them is just pretty pathetic! Besides which they were given a refund and the cake was made elsewhere


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    (Original post by Mutleybm1996)
    This is just a stupid debate, the owners have their beliefs and are well within their rights to decline an order. Suing them is just pretty pathetic! Besides which they were given a refund and the cake was made elsewhere


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    If its OK for a bakery to break the law if there is another one they can get their cakes from, I expect you will agree is OK to have a rat infested bakery as long as there is another vermin free bakery in the vicinity.
 
 
 
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