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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    "Our sufferings today are the prelude of those you, Europeans and Western Christians, will also suffer in the near future. I lost my diocese. The physical setting of my apostolate has been occupied by Islamic radicals who want us converted or dead. But my community is still alive.

    Please, try to understand us. Your liberal and democratic principles are worth nothing here. You must consider again our reality in the Middle East, because you are welcoming in your countries an ever growing number of Muslims. Also you are in danger. You must take strong and courageous decisions, even at the cost of contradicting your principles. You think all men are equal, but that is not true: Islam does not say that all men are equal. Your values are not their values. If you do not understand this soon enough, you will become the victims of the enemy you have welcomed in your home"


    Archbishop Amel Nona
    Chaldean Catholic Archeparch of Mosul, now exiled in Erbil
    Corriere della Sera
    August 9, 2014
    Maybe he was trying to say the double standards of the west in the middle east and in Europe caused this mess.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
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    A brilliant comment, thought provoking and refreshing to read.
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    sacrebleu
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    Sorry, but this has really ****** me off, what an absolute _______. What kind of mother of disproportionate responses is this!??? Urrgh, I just. :mad::mad::mad:
    It really saddens me that I can see no way of humanity getting past this extremism problem, these people are too blind. And you can never get rid of them, when some are gone there are always more ready to take their place.
    To anyone wanting to lump all religions in the same box, please don't. It's really offensive to suggest that this is is the sort of behaviour common to all religions, especially considering God/Jesus are two of the most abused words in the English language and you don't hear Christians getting up in arms (literally) about it.
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    (Original post by robbo3045)
    Seems like Charlie Hebdo are not the only people being silenced.

    *This post already once deleted by a "moderator". Reposting.
    Your post is again off-topic, if you have no comment to make that is related to the topic of discussion of this thread please don't bother.

    We have already made members aware today that if you would like to debate religious scripture please do so in an appropriate thread or create a new one.

    Thank you.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    This is exactly the same situation as with Rushdie; it's pure medieval barbarism.

    And those leftists who constantly tell us islamists do have legitimate grievances, that this is really about American/Israeli foreign policy... well, all of their pathetic excuses for these medievalists are bunk
    As someone who isn't anywhere near the left, I can say with some certainty that bombing a country, overthrowing its regime and leaving a power vacuum- on top of lashing out at Communist nations and funding other terrorist groups/gangs- will not result in everlasting peace, democracy and free cotton candy. The Middle-east doesn't resent the West because it's free, it resentys the West for invading its land, killing its civillians and aiming to bleed it of precious resources. Does teh religious extremism in the Middle-East have a lot to do with terror attacks on the West? Yes, absolutely, otherwise these groups and insurgents would be killing in the name of [insert here] as opposed to Allah and Mohammed. Are many people from these countries resentful of the West for what they see as crimes being commited against them (and who can blame them, if China bombed the US and took a state or two Americans would be not only pissed but literally up in arms)? Yes, you'd have to be really enrenched in the Government's propaganda not to see how invasions of foreign nations has been the main factor in starting attacks against the West. As for Israel, I'm not entirely sure on their claim to fame, but they've expanded from the area of land given to them by the British government (a move seen as illegal by the local residents i.e. Palestinians) and the Muslim nations don't like them much. I'm sure its much more complex than that, but again I hesitate to comment on Israel because I know very little of their foreign policy.
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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    I think inflammatory content shouldn't be published because you don't know (or do know...) how certain groups will react.
    What a ridiculous comment.

    I think the most worrying thing is that we do know how certain groups will react. As has been previously alluded to in this thread (and others) satirical works on Christianity (The Life of Brian etc) are ubiquitous yet we do not see anything like the type of reaction that we see from muslims.

    The answer to this is not 'one rule of muslims (restrict freedom of speech to criticise) and another for everyone else (criticise as you desire)'; it is to show that we, and the freedom of speech, will not be threatened - but rather emboldened - by massacres like this by uncivilised barbarians who do not belong in the west.

    An attack on freedom of speech is an attack on liberal democracy itself.
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    Majid Nawaz on BBC at the moment; "It's not enough [for Muslims] to say, 'I condemn the violence but I also condemn publishing the cartoons'". He says Muslims need to challenge extremism and stand up for free speech. He also said "Islam, my religion, is an idea, and no idea is above scrutiny or satire"
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    (Original post by Jemner01)
    The Middle-east doesn't resent the West because it's free, it resentys the West for invading its land, killing its civillians and aiming to bleed it of precious resources.
    Which is presumably why Islamofascists decided to attack a newspaper as opposed to an army base

    By the way, which Western invasion provoked 9/11?
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    (Original post by Skip_Snip)
    islam's not the best religion is it, aha...
    i think its wrong to associate Islam with this attack because it hasn't even been confirmed that the attack was in any way an Islam attack
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    (Original post by IceJJFish(II))
    I hope you're joking with this point, or are you really that ignorant.
    Rubbish. Drawing pictures of anything is within freedom of speech and it's time muslims sucked it up and learnt to deal with criticism like mature adults instead of throwing tantrums.
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    (Original post by robbo3045)
    ...
    What the hell are you talking about. Just read my first posts in the thread before writing this irrelevant thing.
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    (Original post by noramaria)
    i think its wrong to associate Islam with this attack because it hasn't even been confirmed that the attack was in any way an Islam attack
    You give no credence to eye witness accounts that the murderers shouted "God is great " and The prophet is avenged" in Arabic during the attacks, then?
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    One of the most disgusting aspects of this horrendous mass murder is the response of the media in Islamic countries, specifically Al Jazeera, who when interviewing one commentator who appeared on UK media, asked whether the people at Charlie Hebdo should have apologised for what they were printing. Well, unfortunately they can't because they've been ****ing murdered!!

    Whilst they may have printed cartoons which Muslims may disagree with/ been offended by, there is no way that murder can be justified, just another example of where there is one rule for Muslims and another for everyone else when it comes to belittling peoples beliefs (not that I think people beliefs should be belittled, believe what you want so long as you aren't promoting hate and violence to others).

    Perhaps just as shocking is that the media in France is reporting that there had been MANY potential terrorist plots thwarted in just the last couple of weeks, extremely worrying and I feel for the families of the innocent people shot and murdered today.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You give no credence to eye witness accounts that the murderers shouted "God is great " and The prophet is avenged" in Arabic during the attacks, then?

    yes, but they speak in French so they might not be Islam.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Which is why Islamofascists decided to attack a newspaper rather than an army base?
    By the way, which Western invasion provoked 9/11?
    They're called terrorists for a reason. If they attacked a military base they'd be insurgents or maybe freedom fighters, depending on who you ask. No, I wouldn't call them freedom fighters, although a surprising number of people called and still call Che Guavera a freedom fighter.

    Which western invasion? Close your eyes and pick one. Since the end of WW2 the entire area has been a hotbed of invasion, insurgency, civil war, and foreign intervention. Were they justified? We'd be here all day if we argued the nitty-gritty. Something that can't be argued is the fact they happened, and the residents of these countries are not content.

    Good Bloke: Either/or, it's beside the point. The Palestinians saw the granting of terriroty to the Jews as illegal, and that's one of the reasons they do all they can to harass Isreal. They're also very anti-Semitic, and their religion suggests killing infidels, so there's those reasons too.
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    (Original post by noramaria)
    yes, but they speak in French so they might not be Islam.
    Eh? I think most educated English speakers know what "Allahu akbar" means (even if they don't speak Arabic), and I see no reason to think Francophones would be any different. I think it a reasonable assumption that newspaper editorial workers are well educated.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I don't think any reasonable person expects Muslims to apologise for something that they did not do. What I would like to see, however, is a stop to the all to common response of "Islam forbids the killing of innocents, but they shouldn't have done x" , and "It has nothing to do with Islam" when it is absolutely clear that The Quran and mainstream tafsir interpretation explicitly provide justification, regardless of whether you agree with that interpretation.
    Well, if you look at my full post, that is exactly what I said. And no, I don't know of any single MAINSTREAM tafsir that would provide justification.
    And as I said, there are numerous sects in Islam, and I condemn the sect to which ISIS and the taliban belong. Their interpretation is NOT mainstream interpretation.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Which is presumably why Islamofascists decided to attack a newspaper as opposed to an army base
    Islamofascists come in all shapes and sizes, but all are united against the mocking of the Prophet, which they view as punishable by death.

    By the way, which Western invasion provoked 9/11?
    It wasn't one invasion, as such: it's the continual meddling by the great powers - US, UK, and France - in the region, be it the support for tyrants in Iraq, Saudi Arabia or Egypt, and the consequent oppression of the people; the man-made borders; the unconditional support for Israel, and blind disregard for Palestine; the looting of the region's natural resources in return for arms which only strengthen the despots' positions; et cetera.

    Note: I don't subscribe to these views - I'm just giving you their fanatical view.
 
 
 
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